Dean Smith

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I wasn't expecting you to agree...and your reponse is predictable.

but maybe seeing the other side of the coin once in a while, might enlighten you.

and Yes, he has been fantastic for us.

Enlighten me to what? I'm genuinely curious. 

[Woody1000]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I disagree with your interpretation of balanced too ....sure the positives outweigh the negatives, if you can call them that.....improvements should be welcome and debated, with impunity.

But you never mention anything that could be better....you say " thats not to say its been perfect"...but you conveniently dismiss anything adverse.....how can that be balanced.

We all agree Dean is doing a great job, but to suppress any notion of imperfections is hardly balanced and you are particularly good at that.

 

The problem I have is not just in the manager thread, but other threads in general when it comes to negativity about our players.

Maybe it’s because I’m 40 now and I’ve become a father in the last couple of years, but I see so much negativity everywhere. I love Aston Villa and I find that they bring me a lot of joy, even more since I decided to just get behind the team. I used to spend the whole time watching them cussing every missed pass, every missed tackle, but I try to just enjoy it all now. It’s not that there is anything wrong with constructive criticism, or pointing out that a player had a poor game or made a mistake, but it’s the OTT, vitriolic stuff which just blows my mind. I read a lads Twitter feed the other day and counted 94 consecutive tweets about Villa, all negative, another guy had over 60 consecutively negative tweets about us, It’s a similar story on here with certain really negative posters.

Im starting to think that maybe this forum isn’t for me anymore, maybe I am a happy clapper but I would just rather be positive about the club. In the last 5 years we’ve had championship football, and almost no football! I’m just trying to enjoy the ride now, wherever it goes.

 

[PussEKatt]

I knew there would be a flood of comment after stating what I believe.I did say "to each his owne"

IMHO our big problem is motovation ( I would love to watch Villa start every game as if they really want to win it, not just the games against the top clubs.

Well,I have stated my opinion now and will leave the DS thread only to return to look at the thread in November after we have played Saints,Brighton and Palace but, not to comment.

[Vive_La_Villa]

13 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

I knew there would be a flood of comment after stating what I believe.I did say "to each his owne"

IMHO our big problem is motovation ( I would love to watch Villa start every game as if they really want to win it, not just the games against the top clubs.

Well,I have stated my opinion now and will leave the DS thread only to return to look at the thread in November after we have played Saints,Brighton and Palace but, not to comment.

If we don’t turn up against them teams you’d be right about motivation being as issue. Let’s see how we get on. 

[Dave-R]

21 minutes ago, Woody1000 said:

The problem I have is not just in the manager thread, but other threads in general when it comes to negativity about our players.

Maybe it’s because I’m 40 now and I’ve become a father in the last couple of years, but I see so much negativity everywhere. I love Aston Villa and I find that they bring me a lot of joy, even more since I decided to just get behind the team. I used to spend the whole time watching them cussing every missed pass, every missed tackle, but I try to just enjoy it all now. It’s not that there is anything wrong with constructive criticism, or pointing out that a player had a poor game or made a mistake, but it’s the OTT, vitriolic stuff which just blows my mind. I read a lads Twitter feed the other day and counted 94 consecutive tweets about Villa, all negative, another guy had over 60 consecutively negative tweets about us, It’s a similar story on here with certain really negative posters.

Im starting to think that maybe this forum isn’t for me anymore, maybe I am a happy clapper but I would just rather be positive about the club. In the last 5 years we’ve had championship football, and almost no football! I’m just trying to enjoy the ride now, wherever it goes.

 

Wait till you have had 17 years of it, you won't be thinking the same then, that negativity will soon be with you It has been a joy but being a single parent hasn't been without its challenges it's been very tough at times, I think the reward comes in for me now seeing how my lad is at college and seeing what he will do with his life.

You may not agree with what everyone says but I suppose that's the beauty of it all here or any other place. We can't all agree all the time. I think we all have a different way we see the games that are being played out and it is good to share those views and see the difference in each others words.

I do agree we could have easily rotted and gone to dust as a club and only been a memory in football, others clubs have not had a spot of luck we had and have gone. Being a championship club i fairly enjoyed to be fair but it isn't at the top is it? Villa being promoted with the new Owners was a wonderful sight. First season back in the top and we got in a final with City and survived just by the skin of our teeth. Even losing our captain but gaining Bailey, Ings and Buendia as with many of last years players has been a joy to see because it's a progressive experience where the better player is joining the club each season. Seeing the new staff and the affect they are having at the club is also a great feeling. Even the behind the scenes goings on you know theres lots happening and have to give credit to those responsible.

 

 

 

[blandy]

PLEASE STOP TAKING THE THREAD OFF TOPIC.

THIS THREAD IS TO DISCUSS THE MANAGER - NOT EXPECTATIONS FOR THE SEASON OR HOW MUCH IS SPENT BY THE CLUB OR  HOW GRAHAM POTTER COMPARES OR....

Some posts moved

[Peter Griffin]

6 minutes ago, blandy said:

PLEASE STOP TAKING THE THREAD OFF TOPIC.

THIS THREAD IS TO DISCUSS THE MANAGER - NOT EXPECTATIONS FOR THE SEASON OR HOW MUCH IS SPENT BY THE CLUB OR  HOW GRAHAM POTTER COMPARES OR....

Some posts moved

Surely how much is spent by the manager is relevant to the thread on the manager? I can understand how money spent by a different manager could be taking the thread off topic but the money spent is specific to Smith and I would think directly impact how successful / unsuccessful at the job he can be

[blandy]

9 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

Surely how much is spent by the manager is relevant to the thread on the manager? I can understand how money spent by a different manager could be taking the thread off topic but the money spent is specific to Smith and I would think directly impact how successful / unsuccessful at the job he can be

The money is spent by the club. He is part of that collective, with scouts, board etc. It's far from just him.

If you have an opinion on how Dean Smith manages, coaches, talks, and all the rest, then this is the right place for that. If you wish to post about how the manager has done with a squad worth X amount, then that's fine, too. 

But If you want to discuss where you expect the club to finish, what you think of the squad, whether a website is right about the spend...or whether it's net or gross spend, then here is not the place.

The site guidelines say 

Quote

Please stay on topic.... if you wish to have moderation clarified or have some comment to make regarding moderation, please do this by PM to the relevant moderator. 

 

[HeyAnty]

There is one reason why all big clubs change managers every year or two bar the odd exception.  Players are virtually impossible to manage.  Given the investment clubs make in them, managers go before they do.  As we become more bigger and spend more on single players, managers will start to come and go more often.  Id be surprised if Smith is still here in 18 months 

[ejs1111]

Given all the conflicting opinions about DS as a manager.  Maybe we should lock the thread and make two NEW threads:

Dean Smith IN

Dean Smith OUT

Then ppl can go to their respective threads and vent accordingly.  Thread with the most pages at the end of the season wins! 

Edited September 21, 2021 by ejs1111

[Vive_La_Villa]

Maybe we should discuss him as the head coach? 
 

When did he become manager?

[ejs1111]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Maybe we should discuss him as the head coach? 
 

When did he become manager?

tomato...  tomahto.  

 

 

 

 

but yes I meant head coach.

Edited September 21, 2021 by ejs1111

[nick76]

35 minutes ago, ejs1111 said:

Given all the conflicting opinions about DS as a manager.  Maybe we should lock the thread and make three NEW threads:

Dean Smith IN

Dean Smith OUT

Dean Smith SHAKE IT ALL ABOUT

Then ppl can go to their respective threads and vent accordingly.  Thread with the most pages at the end of the season wins! 

FTFY - we need a bit of Hokey Cokey!

[KMitch]

3 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

it ruins debate when people nail their colours to either mast, whether that be Smith in or Smith out. Too many of the Smith in people just cannot see any wrong and won't contemplate that AV could possibly do better than Smith. Likewise the Smith out people tend not to see the good that Smith has done at Villa and that we could do worse than Smith. The bottom line is that it is somewhere in between Smith is brilliant and Smith is crap. It would be nice to be able to discuss BOTH strengths and weaknesses with some objectivity and less of the bias

This isn't an evenly split debate and there is an extremely vocal minority who doesn't have a lot of facts/evidence to support their side of the argument.  I'm not trying to be "holier than thou" toward other Villa supporters, as we all want the best for the club, but sometimes it's like trying to debate flat earthers or other conspiracy theorists on certain topics, and the "Smith Debate" is one of the biggest ones, IMO.  I'm wrong all the time and make plenty of bad takes and stupid posts, but I'll be the first one to admit I'm wrong and will change my mind.  Look at my initial posts in the Douglas Luiz thread or my initial reactions to signing Danny Ings.  I though Dougie was going to be a massive overrated flop and buying Ings over Tammy was a huge mistake, but I've since eaten my humble pie in both those threads and they've turned me around.  Hell, I myself was even lukewarm on Deano himself when we signed him and didn't see the buzz, but he won me over that first season and made me a staunch supporter after Project Restart.

Deano isn't perfect and he'll be the first to tell you that.  He has made a lot of mistakes over the past 3 years, but he has shown that he learns from them and uses data to focus in on the most important areas needing improvement first.  The fact that he's taken us from playing Bruceball with an aging, overpaid, lopsided squad in the Championship, to building one of the youngest and most dynamic sides in the country in 3 years is something special, not to mention he pushed us up 22 League places while doing it.  My problem with the "Smith Out" camp is they never wanted him here to begin with and they don't give him ANY credit for the good things he's done, or just focus on window dressing as the reason they want him gone.  It's like Smith is a contractor who has restored a dilapidated old mansion, ahead of schedule, and within budget.  The value of the house has already risen more than you planned on at this point in time, but some want to replace him because they don't like his choice of curtains or door knobs and completely ignored the magnificent kitchen remodel and backyard swimming pool he created.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, ejs1111 said:

Given all the conflicting opinions about DS as a manager.  Maybe we should lock the thread and make two NEW threads:

Dean Smith IN

Dean Smith OUT

Then ppl can go to their respective threads and vent accordingly.  Thread with the most pages at the end of the season wins! 

I actually don't even think opinions vary that much.

Resounding majority want him in, few have never wanted him, and some just present arguments questioning certain elements of his tenure.

A loud minority on either side and in between are just very aggressive.

I genuinely don't think it's as dramatic as some make out.

[Tomaszk]

7 hours ago, CVByrne said:

This is a bizarre thread. Too many people nailed their colours to the Smith out mast and are now settling down for a mix of trench warfare and the cold war. 

 

4 hours ago, Zatman said:

A lot of the Smith Out brigade come from his appointment and 2 years of been proven wrong. Sone of them even backed Bruce to the end 

Love laughing at them. It's great. The Bruce stuff is the funniest.

The harshest Smith critics all loved Bruce and bought into his BS.

Why would you bother still being a fan of any club other than Man City if you can't enjoy the positive things that have happened to us? If certain horrors were to unfold like the owners leaving, there is a chance we'll bomb over the coming seasons... and these last few years will have been the best stuff in the last 20 years.

And I say that as someone who would have replaced Smith after the 19/20 season.

Edited September 21, 2021 by Tomaszk

[nick76]

1 hour ago, KMitch said:

This isn't an evenly split debate and there is an extremely vocal minority who doesn't have a lot of facts/evidence to support their side of the argument.  I'm not trying to be "holier than thou" toward other Villa supporters, as we all want the best for the club, but sometimes it's like trying to debate flat earthers or other conspiracy theorists on certain topics, and the "Smith Debate" is one of the biggest ones, IMO.  I'm wrong all the time and make plenty of bad takes and stupid posts, but I'll be the first one to admit I'm wrong and will change my mind.  Look at my initial posts in the Douglas Luiz thread or my initial reactions to signing Danny Ings.  I though Dougie was going to be a massive overrated flop and buying Ings over Tammy was a huge mistake, but I've since eaten my humble pie in both those threads and they've turned me around.  Hell, I myself was even lukewarm on Deano himself when we signed him and didn't see the buzz, but he won me over that first season and made me a staunch supporter after Project Restart.

Deano isn't perfect and he'll be the first to tell you that.  He has made a lot of mistakes over the past 3 years, but he has shown that he learns from them and uses data to focus in on the most important areas needing improvement first.  The fact that he's taken us from playing Bruceball with an aging, overpaid, lopsided squad in the Championship, to building one of the youngest and most dynamic sides in the country in 3 years is something special, not to mention he pushed us up 22 League places while doing it.  My problem with the "Smith Out" camp is they never wanted him here to begin with and they don't give him ANY credit for the good things he's done, or just focus on window dressing as the reason they want him gone.  It's like Smith is a contractor who has restored a dilapidated old mansion, ahead of schedule, and within budget.  The value of the house has already risen more than you planned on at this point in time, but some want to replace him because they don't like his choice of curtains or door knobs and completely ignored the magnificent kitchen remodel and backyard swimming pool he created.

[villabromsgrove]

I remember many years back when I first got season tickets for my four young sons. We were two seats away from a fifty something fan who apparently came to the Villa for two things .... a pre match booze up, continued at halftime (he would leave his seat ten minutes before half time, to be at the front of the bar queue, and return ten minutes after the second half had started) and to shout continued abuse at Alan Wright. He would repeatedly shout "Wrighty, Wrighty, you'll never be a footballer as long as I've got a hole in my arse"! He even shouted it one time as Wright hit a cracking cross from thirty yards out on the left touchline which was headed in for a goal in front of the North Stand.

The point I'm making is he was still a fan who paid for his season ticket and was entitled to his opinion, even if it did get annoying. That's how I see points of view on VT that I don't necessarily agree with. We're all Villa fans even when we're poles apart in how we see things. "Vive la difference" as the French say, because without differing opinions there would be no reason to come on here and debate.

[Vive_La_Villa]

18 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said:

I remember many years back when I first got season tickets for my four young sons. We were two seats away from a fifty something fan who apparently came to the Villa for two things .... a pre match booze up, continued at halftime (he would leave his seat ten minutes before half time, to be at the front of the bar queue, and return ten minutes after the second half had started) and to shout continued abuse at Alan Wright. He would repeatedly shout "Wrighty, Wrighty, you'll never be a footballer as long as I've got a hole in my arse"! He even shouted it one time as Wright hit a cracking cross from thirty yards out on the left touchline which was headed in for a goal in front of the North Stand.

The point I'm making is he was still a fan who paid for his season ticket and was entitled to his opinion, even if it did get annoying. That's how I see points of view on VT that I don't necessarily agree with. We're all Villa fans even when we're poles apart in how we see things. "Vive la difference" as the French say, because without differing opinions there would be no reason to come on here and debate.

Also let’s not forget there was a study that confirmed that 89.7% of football fans are idiots.  

[TRO]

4 hours ago, Woody1000 said:

The problem I have is not just in the manager thread, but other threads in general when it comes to negativity about our players.

Maybe it’s because I’m 40 now and I’ve become a father in the last couple of years, but I see so much negativity everywhere. I love Aston Villa and I find that they bring me a lot of joy, even more since I decided to just get behind the team. I used to spend the whole time watching them cussing every missed pass, every missed tackle, but I try to just enjoy it all now. It’s not that there is anything wrong with constructive criticism, or pointing out that a player had a poor game or made a mistake, but it’s the OTT, vitriolic stuff which just blows my mind. I read a lads Twitter feed the other day and counted 94 consecutive tweets about Villa, all negative, another guy had over 60 consecutively negative tweets about us, It’s a similar story on here with certain really negative posters.

Im starting to think that maybe this forum isn’t for me anymore, maybe I am a happy clapper but I would just rather be positive about the club. In the last 5 years we’ve had championship football, and almost no football! I’m just trying to enjoy the ride now, wherever it goes.

 

I think there is every reason to be happy, its exciting times.