Dean Smith

[TRO]

8 hours ago, KentVillan said:

As a big fan of Smith, I see two weaknesses that bother me a bit.

One is I think he struggles a bit with overseas signings. He has talked previously about bringing in a European coach, and I wonder if that’s an admission of sorts that he’s struggled to build the same rapport with players like Guilbert, Wesley, Luiz, Sanson, etc. His track record with homegrown players is much stronger.

The other is I’m not sure he comes up with specific plans to target opposition weaknesses or cancel out their strengths. Not seen us go after a dodgy fullback or create a mismatch with a clever substitution. He doesn’t seem to think about the game like that - it’s tends to be about repeating the same patterns of play from game to game. At the very highest level, I think you need to be able to do that in the big season-defining games.

But he’s a manager who seems very reflective and self-aware, so as others have said, these might not be weaknesses forever.

He’s still a relatively young manager, learning his trade. For where we are and the progress we’ve made, I just don’t get most of the negativity around him. He’s achieved what we’ve wanted so far, and done it in a classy way, creating a good culture around the club.

The so-called “Smith In” crowd is just people who want him to get a fair crack at showing what he can do here. Every season there’s another manager somewhere who is supposedly much better than Smith… I’ve seen names like Allardyce, Bielsa, Wilder, Ancelotti in the past.

So this year it’ll be Moyes, Potter, Frank. Let’s see how things pan out. Smith has a habit of progressing past all these supposedly superior managers. Maybe he’s alright at this?

One of the really sad things is he was the first coach to really get a consistent tune out of Jack Grealish, and he gets almost no credit for that. It’s just completely glossed over. Jack didn’t join City because Smith is a shit coach, he joined them because you have to play for a Sky 6 club to get the stardom and guaranteed England place that he craves. I’d be amazed if Pep actually significantly improves him at this stage in his career. He talked a good game re playing him as an 8 but has quickly realised that Smith was right.

It’s little things like this where some of our fans seem to just swallow the FIFA / Sky / TalkSport / Big 6 narrative and bash Smith because he isn’t a star coach wanked over on YouTube by Tifo and the like.

Anyway, rant over. Not sure where I’m going with this Feel free to criticise Smith, but surely we’re free to bite back if we like him? Nobody’s been silenced.

I welcome that as a balanced view....I too am very much in the Dean In camp, but like you have had some reservations, but it seems to me he is gradually ironing out some of my doubts.

When I look at the job overall and not just the first team....I can't see past Dean Smith right now, I don't know what his ceiling is, but I do see personal progress in him on a consistent incremental basis.....I do not wish for him to lose his job, and I don't think its worthy of debating it, such is our progress....but I don't want to be prickly with my opinion, folk have a right to doubt, if they so choose.

However, I have always been an advocate of constructive criticism as its a benchmark to improve and that should be what we all want.

Dean would have to go on a pretty desperate run of results, for my mind to change, and I just don't see that.

Ps Changing a couple of coaches who has worked closely with him has been a challenge too.

A good post IMO.

Edited September 22, 2021 by TRO

[KentVillan]

6 hours ago, WallisFrizz said:

He did this on Saturday by replacing Targett with Bailey and explained that he wanted to better exploit the space that Targett had been getting down the left.

Also, didn’t we destroy Liverpool 7-2 with a very specific game plan?

Those are two examples off the top of my head, I’m sure there would be more.

Great point re the Bailey switch, and as I said in my post, all of Smith's "weaknesses" are things that he seems to actively resolve over time. As he has a lot more options this season, we will surely start to see more of these clever in-game switches that target space.

It does look like when Ings switched to Bailey for his goal, that it might have been rehearsed, as Ings seemed to instinctively look for that pass, and Bailey seemed to know it was coming. Maybe it's an obvious ball, but Ings picks him out so quickly as he was turning that it seemed planned.

The Liverpool 7-2 was an amazing result, and yes we obviously had a game plan to be a bit more direct and beat the press, but it was basically our standard lineup from last season?

Not trying to beat up Smith here, anyway. I love him. Just a couple of things where he might still have room to grow versus the very best managers.

[Kiwivillan]

3 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Not trying to beat up Smith here, anyway. I love him. Just a couple of things where he might still have room to grow versus the very best managers.

I think it's fair to say he's growing season on season and has admitted in past where he's made mistakes and has realised them.

[DaveAV1]

55 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

I think it's fair to say he's growing season on season and has admitted in past where he's made mistakes and has realised them.

Agreed, shouldn’t that be the mind set of every manager, or indeed every person in any job or life in general? I’d imagine even the best managers still are learning and trying to improve. Even the best golfers and tennis players etc still have coaches. 
 

I think Dean has a very refreshing approach to management and think he very much buys into this, “just a cog in the wheel” attitude. His main job is perhaps to get all the cogs turning together and the “Villa Engine” running smoothly. Sorry if the use of that phrase brings back nightmares! However I think it’s quite an appropriate description of our current set up and not just a sound bite anymore. 

It’s no coincidence that Brentford are viewed and indeed openly admit, that the manager, whilst important, isn’t the defining factor in how they operate. 

[blandy]

1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

The Liverpool 7-2 was an amazing result, and yes we obviously had a game plan to be a bit more direct and beat the press, but it was basically our standard lineup from last season?

The thing Deano did was the thing that said you want to see more of

Quote

 I’m not sure he comes up with specific plans to target opposition weaknesses or cancel out their strengths. Not seen us go after a dodgy fullback or create a mismatch with a clever substitution.

A particular plan to target their high line and pressing game. 

I think another thing that Dean now has in his locker to use (and has used recently) is a stronger bench, for the "clever substitutions" you are looking for.

That doesn't necessarily mean it will now happen as we'd like every time, but my feeling is we can see improvements he's brought about in areas like dead ball situations, we can see the results of the time he spent when games were off in one to one discussions he had with the players, we can see the team spirit that he has fostered.

I think the trickiest thing for him at the moment is working out the best first team and formation and then turning his vision into consistent results while under the scrutiny and expectations of demanding supporters. The Liverpool game you mentioned was a huge thing for him because of the confidence and belief in him and his tactics the result will have instilled into the players. If he can get a win against a "big" opponent soon then I can see another stride forward being taken, but obviously he will be up against opposition that also has the detail and resources that he has been provided with, as well as potentially stronger squads.

The next trickest thing he needs to improve is the away record (with fans present).

He's got a way to go yet, but he's perfect the man for the job.

[HKP90]

10 hours ago, KentVillan said:

As a big fan of Smith, I see two weaknesses that bother me a bit.

One is I think he struggles a bit with overseas signings. He has talked previously about bringing in a European coach, and I wonder if that’s an admission of sorts that he’s struggled to build the same rapport with players like Guilbert, Wesley, Luiz, Sanson, etc. His track record with homegrown players is much stronger.

The other is I’m not sure he comes up with specific plans to target opposition weaknesses or cancel out their strengths. Not seen us go after a dodgy fullback or create a mismatch with a clever substitution. He doesn’t seem to think about the game like that - it’s tends to be about repeating the same patterns of play from game to game. At the very highest level, I think you need to be able to do that in the big season-defining games.

But he’s a manager who seems very reflective and self-aware, so as others have said, these might not be weaknesses forever.

He’s still a relatively young manager, learning his trade. For where we are and the progress we’ve made, I just don’t get most of the negativity around him. He’s achieved what we’ve wanted so far, and done it in a classy way, creating a good culture around the club.

The so-called “Smith In” crowd is just people who want him to get a fair crack at showing what he can do here. Every season there’s another manager somewhere who is supposedly much better than Smith… I’ve seen names like Allardyce, Bielsa, Wilder, Ancelotti in the past.

So this year it’ll be Moyes, Potter, Frank. Let’s see how things pan out. Smith has a habit of progressing past all these supposedly superior managers. Maybe he’s alright at this?

One of the really sad things is he was the first coach to really get a consistent tune out of Jack Grealish, and he gets almost no credit for that. It’s just completely glossed over. Jack didn’t join City because Smith is a shit coach, he joined them because you have to play for a Sky 6 club to get the stardom and guaranteed England place that he craves. I’d be amazed if Pep actually significantly improves him at this stage in his career. He talked a good game re playing him as an 8 but has quickly realised that Smith was right.

It’s little things like this where some of our fans seem to just swallow the FIFA / Sky / TalkSport / Big 6 narrative and bash Smith because he isn’t a star coach wanked over on YouTube by Tifo and the like.

Anyway, rant over. Not sure where I’m going with this Feel free to criticise Smith, but surely we’re free to bite back if we like him? Nobody’s been silenced.

Anyone who has ever suggested that Allerdyce is much better than Smith needs a proper kick in the ghoulies. Really hard. 

[KentVillan]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

The thing Deano did was the thing that said you want to see more of

What I had in mind was more... there's a certain type of manager (e.g. Mourinho, Benitez, Simeone) who is known for trying to create specific imbalances or really single out a specific opposition player. That detailed tactical focus is a bit different from just saying "we'll do a low block and hit them on the counter" or... "we're going to press more aggressively this week".

I'm sure Smith does do this kind of thing, but I'm not convinced it's his strong suit, nor even something he particularly believes in.

His preference seems to be finding a shape that's working, and then once he has 3 points, sticking with that system for a run of games, letting those players fight to keep the shirt week after week. Which is totally fine by me, I was just playing devil's advocate.

I also completely agree with you that Smith has other challenges to worry about - developing a good "Plan A" each season, with significant numbers of new players to integrate, is probably more important than tinkering around with antifootball.

Fundamentally, I think he's the right man for the job, and have complete faith in him. But just trying to be constructive about where improvements might lie.

[KentVillan]

1 hour ago, HKP90 said:

Anyone who has ever suggested that Allerdyce is much better than Smith needs a proper kick in the ghoulies. Really hard. 

It's laughable now, isn't it, but if you can be arsed to trawl through this thread, you'll see a few people in 2019/20 were suggesting managers like Allardyce and Pulis to keep us up.

[HKP90]

2 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

It's laughable now, isn't it, but if you can be arsed to trawl through this thread, you'll see a few people in 2019/20 were suggesting managers like Allardyce and Pulis to keep us up.

I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. 

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, KentVillan said:

It's laughable now, isn't it, but if you can be arsed to trawl through this thread, you'll see a few people in 2019/20 were suggesting managers like Allardyce and Pulis to keep us up.

Probably the same people who want a balanced discussion now. 

[rodders0223]

Ridiculous bench decisions and just no need to rest so many seniors especially with a straight 90 and penalties.

I'm really disappointed regardless of the good performance.

We've binned off a cup competition and i thought Deano was better than that

[Mantis]

2 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

Ridiculous bench decisions and just no need to rest so many seniors especially with a straight 90 and penalties.

I'm really disappointed regardless of the good performance.

We've binned off a cup competition and i thought Deano was better than that

...what

[Kiwivillan]

1 minute ago, rodders0223 said:

Ridiculous bench decisions and just no need to rest so many seniors especially with a straight 90 and penalties.

I'm really disappointed regardless of the good performance.

We've binned off a cup competition and i thought Deano was better than that

We got to penalties away to a Chelsea team that wouldn't have looked out of place lining up in PL game FFS

[Phil Silvers]

Treble gone, Deano out.

[Vive_La_Villa]

I’ve come to the conclusion that some fans will never be happy. Night lads. 

[Rolta]

There's a good feeling around the club with the youth and the squad seeming united. It's pleasing to see, and it's proven in good performances like that. That's all on Smith.

[VillaAlex]

Proud of how he is nurturing all the young talent we have. I get the feeling he will always put the future of the club above himself.

Tough game today we did a lot better than anyone would have expected. This will do wonders for the development of our team. 

[nick76]

Penalties are a lottery! I’m glad Dean and from the pictures Austin kept the kids away from them.  Archer had a great night scoring a goal against the Champions of Europe on their home turf…why spoil that with a 50/50 lottery which if missed would’ve played on the kids mind.  Let him enjoy his goal, great man management from Dean and Austin imo.

Penalties could’ve gone a different way but I think they are too much of a lottery really to decide games generally.

Edited September 22, 2021 by nick76

[villalad21]

Guy is just like Solskjaer. 

Just created vibes. We'll win nothing under him. 

Not starting Martinez is an unbelievable decision. We don't play in Europe. There is no reason to rest as many players as we did. 

This was a great opportunity wasted. Martinez plays and we win this game. 

[paul514]

I am pleased with everything today.

I thought we should have started Ings or Watkins with the other being on the bench as we aren't reliant on one striker this year.
The replacement scored a good goal and got some good experience.

Our second string, played well, got minutes under their belt, I even thought Deano made the right tactical choice in going to a back three in the late stages and the correct subs.