Dean Smith

[briny_ear]

17 minutes ago, Nicho said:

Smith did an incredible job at the start of the season, unfortunately our squad isn’t up to it and we are just evening out. Regardless of whether we beat better teams before .

 

This is lovely. So at the start of the season when we did well it was all down to Smith and now we are doing badly it is all down to the squad? This is a new saying in the rather bizarre cult of Dean Smith that has been created in these pages. 

Let me give you an alternative explanation. 

At the start of the season Jack Grealish was at the top of his game and inspired the squad to wins, then he tailed off, possibly due to a developing injury, and we did less well, now he is out and we can barely put an effective attack together. 

This suggests to me the manager has insufficient influence on the performance of the team.

[villa4europe]

20 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

This is lovely. So at the start of the season when we did well it was all down to Smith and now we are doing badly it is all down to the squad? This is a new saying in the rather bizarre cult of Dean Smith that has been created in these pages. 

Let me give you an alternative explanation. 

At the start of the season Jack Grealish was at the top of his game and inspired the squad to wins, then he tailed off, possibly due to a developing injury, and we did less well, now he is out and we can barely put an effective attack together. 

This suggests to me the manager has insufficient influence on the performance of the team.

Or we won enough games and got enough points on the board to hit the cruise control button

Which happens a lot in football because footballers are over paid lazy **** 

Throw in corona... We gave up months ago

Personally I blame the players, people will throw in the chasing europe stuff but nah we gave up, job done in January, let's go home 

Edit - an example of underperforming cruise control lazy bastard footballers - spurs group has now seen off Poch and Jose despite having better players than us, footballers are a strange breed in that they have this incredible mental strain of being under the spotlight yet at the same time manage to be mentally weak at times menacing that they drift off and under perform, better managers than Smith with better players than villa suffer from this every season, what's turned West Ham around? Moyes being a genius or his expensive squad deciding to actually try and play football this year? It's not always the manager, they can be powerless 

Edited April 24, 2021 by villa4europe

[foreveryoung]

23 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Or we won enough games and got enough points on the board to hit the cruise control button

Which happens a lot in football because footballers are over paid lazy **** 

Throw in corona... We gave up months ago

Personally I blame the players, people will throw in the chasing europe stuff but nah we gave up, job done in January, let's go home 

Edit - an example of underperforming cruise control lazy bastard footballers - spurs group has now seen off Poch and Jose despite having better players than us, footballers are a strange breed in that they have this incredible mental strain of being under the spotlight yet at the same time manage to be mentally weak at times menacing that they drift off and under perform, better managers than Smith with better players than villa suffer from this every season, what's turned West Ham around? Moyes being a genius or his expensive squad deciding to actually try and play football this year? It's not always the manager, they can be powerless 

So @briny_ear is right then. Smith has insufficient influence on the performance of the team. So what do we do from here, most would make a change. Not saying we should do............yet!

[villa4europe]

17 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

So @briny_ear is right then. Smith has insufficient influence on the performance of the team. So what do we do from here, most would make a change. Not saying we should do............yet!

I'm saying that very very few managers do, including managers better than Smith 

Its part of football

I'd change the players before I changed the manager

[Nicho]

2 hours ago, briny_ear said:

This is lovely. So at the start of the season when we did well it was all down to Smith and now we are doing badly it is all down to the squad? This is a new saying in the rather bizarre cult of Dean Smith that has been created in these pages. 

Yep this is exactly what I said

[GingerCollins29]

It's not the fault if the players, manager or coaching staff. It's a mixture if all 3, plus throw in factors of injuries, suspensions, being safe from relegation and also the fact that grealish, mings, mcginn and watkins will be going the euros and don't want to miss out through injury.

We've been absolutely dogshit since feb/march and everyone involved should take responsibility.

Standards have dropped and that is on the players and staff not holding themselves to the highest standards.

[villa4europe]

29 minutes ago, GingerCollins29 said:

It's not the fault if the players, manager or coaching staff. It's a mixture if all 3, plus throw in factors of injuries, suspensions, being safe from relegation and also the fact that grealish, mings, mcginn and watkins will be going the euros and don't want to miss out through injury.

We've been absolutely dogshit since feb/march and everyone involved should take responsibility.

Standards have dropped and that is on the players and staff not holding themselves to the highest standards.

Missed off corona mate which is somehow the elephant in the room

Probably because none of us actually know a thing about who it was or what it's done to us afterwards 

[Awol]

8 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Missed off corona mate which is somehow the elephant in the room

Probably because none of us actually know a thing about who it was or what it's done to us afterwards 

Pre-Corona we were mostly fantastic, post-outbreak we’ve been in relegation form. 

Coincidence? I think not.  

 

[PaulC]

14 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Missed off corona mate which is somehow the elephant in the room

Probably because none of us actually know a thing about who it was or what it's done to us afterwards 

I presume most players in the league have had coronavirus at sometime or another so I don't think it can be used as a reason for poor form. 

[villalad21]

Ain't a winning culture at the club. 

Against City there were no aggression, desire or will to win and fight for every ball. Even after scoring that goal the players didn't look like they believed they could win. We just stood off them, allowing them doing exactly what they wanted.. 

Dean smiling and hugging Pep after the game was weird. Did not like that at all. 

Edited April 24, 2021 by villalad21

[Awol]

6 minutes ago, PaulC said:

I presume most players in the league have had coronavirus at sometime or another so I don't think it can be used as a reason for poor form. 

Why presume that without any evidence? Just so you can dismiss it as a causal factor in Villa’s collapse after we had a mass outbreak?

Pretty convenient.  

[villa4europe]

14 minutes ago, PaulC said:

I presume most players in the league have had coronavirus at sometime or another so I don't think it can be used as a reason for poor form. 

Us man City and Newcastle 

Like I said no one knows, we don't know which players 

You can't say it's not a factor

[foreveryoung]

1 minute ago, Awol said:

Why presume that without any evidence? Just so you can dismiss it as a causal factor in Villa’s collapse after we had a mass outbreak?

Pretty convenient.  

I don't believe this for a second, unless you know for a fact. There would be no shame in Smith coming out an saying it's effected the team. Be quite interesting to know to be honest, but I just can't see it. Also we have still seen glimpses of quality since the breakout, we beat Newcastle, Arsenal and I think Southampton the weeks after and recently saw off Fulham in the second half.

[PaulC]

Just now, villa4europe said:

Us man City and Newcastle 

Like I said no one knows, we don't know which players 

You can't say it's not a factor

Not categorically no but after all this time its unlikely to be  factor now.  

[striker]

8 hours ago, nick76 said:

Yeah another manager could do better from this team, just as another manager could do worse.  Smith has done really well to get us where we are in his 2.5 years, so deserves and has earned credit to continue.  If another manager came in, some might be more successful, some the same and a lot will do worse.  Mourinho did no better with Spurs, Lampard did no better with Chelsea, Carlo given his squad isn’t doing that much better but looks better after that lucky goal last night.  Nobody would’ve thought Moyes would’ve been so successful.  Wilder was lauded last season but he’s gone now and they have been relegated. Hasenhuttl was lauded on this forum but look where they are now.

So reputation and experience isn’t always an indicator of what they will do, current managers doesn’t always mean that they will be great in the coming period.  We have a manager whose team has improved season after season results wise.  That alone should give him more time.  Bringing in a new manager is no guarantee of success and could result in upheaval and failure.  Plus we’d have to start a new rebuild because they’ll want their own squad so we’ll be transition again for the next couple of seasons which’ll frustrate most on here.

As for West Brom.  If we lose I’ll be bitterly disappointed but won’t change my view because the problems we have before the game will be the same after the game.  We need to get to the summer and get more quality in, that is the same whether we win, draw or lose.  I’m sorry, my emotions aren’t impacted by each individual game but my overall thoughts are about overall growth season over season and taking into account all the factors.  

I’m sorry I’m not part of the modern TikTok generation that my views don’t change every second and my attention span isnt shorter than the immediate moment.  Yes losing to West Brom would be bad but won’t change my overall view.  In the same vein will you be positive about Smith if we beat West Brom? I assume not?

I did. Given the right amount of time and backing Moyes has shown what he’s about at Ham. He would have been the perfect fit at Villa as he was at Everton. It’s a darn pity Moyes didn’t end up at Villa because with the wealthy owners Villa have now he would have you top six no problem.

Personally since the Covid break Villa’s form has taken a massive dive even with Grealish in the team. It was also a massive mistake to send Hourihane on loan with the dearth of quality in Villa’s midfield. Hourihane could have played in the role McGinn has now which he was accustomed to at his previous club. Smith has also taken Hourihane’s goals from dead ball situations out of the team. I’m not saying this out of hindsight as I said the same when he was sent out on loan. Nor did I agree with Guilbert. In my opinion a very decent attacking FB who could and should have played a part this season.

Sorry, but as much as I like Smith as a person I believe at the end of the season it’s time for changing to a better manager.

[villa4europe]

12 minutes ago, PaulC said:

Not categorically no but after all this time its unlikely to be  factor now.  

Not a factor now I agree, a factor in writing our season off and us now going through the motions severely lacking motivation? 

Almost definitely IMO

Being safe from relegation + not believing we will get europe + Barkley and Grealish injuries + corona = our piss poor form 

[PaulC]

14 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

I don't believe this for a second, unless you know for a fact. There would be no shame in Smith coming out an saying it's effected the team. Be quite interesting to know to be honest, but I just can't see it. Also we have still seen glimpses of quality since the breakout, we beat Newcastle, Arsenal and I think Southampton the weeks after and recently saw off Fulham in the second half.

If he did it now then it would look like an excuse to be fair and what I don't understand that if any player has long-term covid effects then why would he be picking them in the first place. 

[PaulC]

1 minute ago, villa4europe said:

Not a factor now I agree, a factor in writing our season off and us now going through the motions severely lacking motivation? 

Almost definitely IMO

Being safe from relegation + not believing we will get europe + Barkley and Grealish injuries + corona = our piss poor form 

I agree with that

[villa4europe]

And Moyes is an example of what I'm talking about

Players didn't fancy it last season, this season they do for whatever reason, the obvious one being their fans 

Didn't sack him last year when no one was bothered enough to perform

[Spoony]

We nearly got points against City and Liverpool. We nearly got relegated last season. We are now mathematically safe. We are mid table. We have progressed. If we do a bit better next season, we have progressed YET AGAIN.

I honestly despair. I wouldn’t change a single part of our set up other than improving on certain positions, which we will, because we have every season under Smith.

I feel like I’m beating the same old drum but it’s a bit like the stock market and you need to ‘zoom out’. Don’t focus on small dips in form - equally don’t believe we will win the league when we win 5 on the bounce at the start. If you take a holistic view we have improved season by season. Ironically it’s the first time the likes of a 3 year / 5 year project haven’t been touted but for once you can actually view it in that way. The year on year progress is so blindingly obvious but villa fans have a habit of kicking off too much when things slope down a bit after a good run puts them into a mindset of ‘well we have been top 7 this season therefore that is now the expectation’.

I’m rambling a bit but I hope my point is somewhat clear.