Dean Smith

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, nick76 said:

So you want a show? Right, got it!

Oh and Bielsa is a winner and we need to be like Burnley and Brighton the teams just above the relegation zone. Mate, you are smoking something today!

Nick, its the pot calling the kettle black here.....your OTT defence of him is quite endearing....but not necessary, I don't want him gone, don't confuse me with those that do.

That's a strawman, if ever i have seen one.

I didn't say Burnley or Brighton was better than us, despite both teams giving us a games to think about, this season.

your opposing views are twisting the interpretaion of what I am saying.....I am basically pin pointing one aspect of our play, I am not trying to boil the ocean, like you are assuming.

Yes, I think Biesla has a winning mentality, even if he doesn't succeed every game.....and it doesn't take me alone to endorse it.

Dean is safe with me, don't get your knickers in a twist, just because, I have noticed his runny nose.....but he is not beyond constructive criticism.

[QldVilla]

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

No it hasn't it's been dour and slow, misplacing passes not being able to do the basics. You need to watch more games mate?

I don't expect to win every game and my expectations really aren't that high.

Again, your focussed on the outcome. You don’t know what it happening on the training ground or taking in to account the experience of the players at PL level. Their ability to play at a high level week in week out, without having the squad depth to change things etc etc etc.

I watch every game probably 2-3 times, but been around along enough to know it is only one of many elements that contribute to performance.

[TRO]

16 minutes ago, sne said:

So just because Smith doesn't act like a clearing in the woods on the sidelines during games people think this is how Smith and his team handle training behind closed doors?

Hyperbole.

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

Write to all the managers in the PL Nick and quote that and see what the response is.

Don't turn this in to a me slagging Dean Smith off, because that would be wide of the mark.....I have merely been picking up of one thing that has been missing and he is the manager, its his responsibility.

Dean has had far more money to spend than him and they have done better than us in their first season up.....we are both kinda equal now, but we have had a season more to do so.

Dean has a way to go, Marcelo is further in years, but if you are trying to compare quality of manager, here.....I think you will be disappointed.

Would I swap......No, and Emphatic No.....but lets get some perspective here, he is ahead of Dean Technically.

Bielsa has achieved nothing in Europe in 20 years, in fact he’s left a trail of controversy.  Bielsa is coming to the end of his managerial career and he’s been living off his South American early career.  Smith is new to this level.

Leeds actually spent slightly more last summer than us by just a couple of million.  The season before we had to replace most of the season when we come up.  I’ll give you we spent more that close season but there was a reason just to get a team to start.

I think some on here really rave about Bielsa, I just don’t think he’s that good.  Technically going forward he’s great but is one the most awful technically defensively I’ve seen.  As Souness said, Bielsa doesn’t care about conceding.  To be a top coach you have to be good at defending and attacking and Bielsa just isn’t.

So Bielsa is technically better going forward and possession but Smith beats him easily defensively.  Deans got time to continue learning.  I’d much rather have Dean than Bielsa, it’s not a contest for me.

 

[Zatman]

6 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

The second half of the season under Smith has been very disappointing, most expected more from the start we had. Grealish missing has played a big part in this, but this is where managers earn there money, making the rest of the team step up, Smith has not managed this.

Do I think he should be replaced, probably see how he does the start of next season with a few new signings, but I don't think he will be our future. 

Klopp has 6 wins in 19, does he deserve the same standards that you set Lampard and Smith as well

[foreveryoung]

18 minutes ago, sne said:

So just because Smith doesn't act like a clearing in the woods on the sidelines during games people think this is how Smith and his team handle training behind closed doors?

That's more like them on the pitch to be honest!

[nick76]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

Nick, its the pot calling the kettle black here.....your OTT defence of him is quite endearing....but not necessary, I don't want him gone, don't confuse me with those that do.

That's a strawman, if ever i have seen one.

I didn't say Burnley or Brighton was better than us, despite both teams giving us a games to think about, this season.

your opposing views are twisting the interpretaion of what I am saying.....I am basically pin pointing one aspect of our play, I am not trying to boil the ocean, like you are assuming.

Yes, I think Biesla has a winning mentality, even if he doesn't succeed every game.....and it doesn't take me alone to endorse it.

Dean is safe with me, don't get your knickers in a twist, just because, I have noticed his runny nose.....but he is not beyond constructive criticism.

But you seem to infer then that Smith doesn’t have a winning mentality.  If you aren’t inferring that point then what is the argument here.

[foreveryoung]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Klopp has 6 wins in 19, does he deserve the same standards that you set Lampard and Smith as well

Then he needs to be called into question, like he is. 

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Bielsa has achieved nothing in Europe in 20 years, in fact he’s left a trail of controversy.  Bielsa is coming to the end of his managerial career and he’s been living off his South American early career.  Smith is new to this level.

Leeds actually spent slightly more last summer than us by just a couple of million.  The season before we had to replace most of the season when we come up.  I’ll give you we spent more that close season but there was a reason just to get a team to start.

I think some on here really rave about Bielsa, I just don’t think he’s that good.  Technically going forward he’s great but is one the most awful technically defensively I’ve seen.  As Souness said, Bielsa doesn’t care about conceding.  To be a top coach you have to be good at defending and attacking and Bielsa just isn’t.

So Bielsa is technically better going forward and possession but Smith beats him easily defensively.  Deans got time to continue learning.  I’d much rather have Dean than Bielsa, it’s not a contest for me.

 

What did I write, on my last post?, the self same thing.

I agree, about the defence, but I still stand by my one aspect, that i was talking about.....Aggression and the approach to it.

I think Biesla is so committed offensively, he is finding in first season back, like us, that defending needs more attention.

But we are drifting off the subject here....I think Dean needs to inject more aggression in our play, is/was my main point.....nothing to do with how well we have done so far.... 44 points is ok by me.

Edited April 24, 2021 by TRO

[QldVilla]

46 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think your point is valid....but I think a bit more controlled aggression about the place wouldn't go amiss.

That doesn't have to be waited for, or progressed to, it doesn't have to take seasons to impliment.....it just has to be applied, its a mentality, its an approach.

The team is not the finished article far from it. Both you and I have been saying for a long time we need a proper DM to be physical in the middle.

But the controlled aggression cannot be manufactured, some players just have it, and some of our players are a bit light. We are still 4-5 quality signings away from being a top 6 team, but it may take another 2-3 summer windows to get to that level.

 

Edited April 24, 2021 by QldVilla

[PaulC]

3 minutes ago, QldVilla said:

The team is not the finished article far from it. Both you and I have been saying for a long time we need a proper DM to be physical in the middle.

But the controlled aggression cannot be manufactured, some players just have it, and some of players are a bit light. We are still 4-5 quality signings away from being a top 6 team, but it may take another 2-3 summer windows to get to that level.

 

Yes we have a great goalkeeper, a good back 4 and a good striker who are all their jobs so that leaves 5 players that arent. 

[sne]

1 minute ago, PaulC said:

Yes we have a great goalkeeper, a good back 4 and a good striker who are all their jobs so that leaves 5 players that arent. 

Grealish is decent too.

[foreveryoung]

Personally I think that Leed's team is far from Prem Quality. It's just Bielsa has everyone of them players working there balls off every game and he expects nothing less. if a player is not performing, he'll bring them off 10 minutes, 100 minutes he don't care. Do I want Smith to be like this, maybe 50% of Bielsa's motivation would do. I wouldn't have him as manger here though no. A mix of him and Smith would make a top manager I've no doubt

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, QldVilla said:

The team is not the finished article far from it. Both you and I have been saying for a long time we need a proper DM to be physical in the middle.

But the controlled aggression cannot be manufactured, some players just have it, and some of players are a bit light. We are still 4-5 quality signings away from being a top 6 team, but it may take another 2-3 summer windows to get to that level.

 

of course we are not the finished article, if their is such a thing....teams are always WIP.

couldn't agree more......so do you agree, that if we don't sign players, with the right character, ( assuming we are right of course) then its our own fault.

[PaulC]

Just now, sne said:

Grealish is decent too.

Of course hes great but i mean the ones that have been playing lately. 

[nick76]

9 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

The second half of the season under Smith has been very disappointing, most expected more from the start we had. Grealish missing has played a big part in this, but this is where managers earn there money, making the rest of the team step up, Smith has not managed this.

Do I think he should be replaced, probably see how he does the start of next season with a few new signings, but I don't think he will be our future. 

As I said during that run, I was loving it but I did mention a few times during that run that when we do go on a bad run how fans would react.  Some humbugged me, which was fair enough but my point was still valid.  Our first XI and especially our squad is at best a mid table team.  We have a quality defence.  Our midfielders are great when they are on form and high on confidence but are average otherwise.  Ollie is awesome, but I’ve always thought our creators was our weak area.  Jack is world class but Barkley, Traore, Trez and El Ghazi are bottom half of the table creators.  It stood out then and it stands out now more when we are in poor form and no confidence.

I think we were overachieving at the time, our squad and first XI in my mind wasn’t as good as our performances and maybe that’s why I’m not so downbeat now.  I think we are playing well below where we can but as I said I thought before Xmas we were playing well above then.  For me we are somewhere in between, our quality and depth isn’t good enough, we can see that in the gulf in class from Jack to the rest of our midfield and creative players.

I think we are a one man creative team.  I think we have a brilliant defence that will learn from this season and gain valuable experience.  I think Ollie is awesome and obviously Jack is world class.  We have a great base to the team.  For me on what I though at the beginning of the season, we look like we will finish about where most of us thought before a ball was kicked.

Has Dean done enough, I’m edging on just more than required.  I think 19th will be a great season.  It looks disappointing given where we were at Xmas and we have struggled since but I can explain why to myself.  I’m comfortable with those reasons as been discussed on here over and over.  For you and other, you don’t accept those reasons.  Do I want more? Of course.  Are there tings I want Dean to be better at? Of course.  I’m happy overall with Smith, I think he needs a strong summer of spending and if he struggles next season then it’s a different story for me but he has plenty of credit from me to give him that time.

[foreveryoung]

1 minute ago, PaulC said:

Of course hes great but i mean the ones that have been playing lately. 

I think Luiz is quality too, he has shown it, just goes to prove my point that we are not getting the best out of the team. 

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, nick76 said:

But you seem to infer then that Smith doesn’t have a winning mentality.  If you aren’t inferring that point then what is the argument here.

He has a 36% win ratio in his career spanning 522 games.....he has a modest 40% win ratio at Villa in 119 games.

You make your own mind up Nick.

I will go back to my central point.....In my humble opinion, I think we should foster more controlled aggression in our play and it might help us with our results.....I was rather hoping Dean has it in him to do that.

[QldVilla]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

of course we are not the finished article, if their is such a thing....teams are always WIP.

couldn't agree more......so do you agree, that if we don't sign players, with the right character, ( assuming we are right of course) then its our own fault.

Don’t know if I’d go as far as saying it is our fault, but it is part of the risk. We can do all the scouting in the world, all the psychology testing etc etc, but there are always some uncontrollable’s that can’t be identified. Even Sir Alex bought some duds.

 

[PaulC]

1 minute ago, foreveryoung said:

I think Luiz is quality too, he has shown it, just goes to prove my point that we are not getting the best out of the team. 

and the buck stops at the manager.