Dean Smith

[Kiwivillan]

1 hour ago, Panto_Villan said:

I guess it depends whether you think "target" means something aspirational or whether it's the minimum expected from us. I use it to mean the latter.

You've got to feel that the top 8 last year are a lock to be top half this year, which means there's only two spots up for grabs in the top half. Leaving aside the (very significant) luck factor, are we really one of the strongest two of the remaining 12 teams? Better than say Everton?

We probably over performed with our squad last season, and I think keeping Grealish and our new signings solidify us to a position where I now expect us to be out of the relegation fight. Top half seems a stretch and I think Dean would be rightly annoyed if that were his target.

I think if anything we underperformed. Kept hearing at one stage if we'd won games we'd scored first in would've been 2nd. Think that was pre Covid not sure how it ended up. 

Lost McGinn who was struggling before injury from Internationals exhaustion imo.

Now have class GK and a striker who looks like scoring all those chances we created that went begging. 

I'm really optimistic. 

Ask me again after Blades game though...

[Daweii]

1 minute ago, Kiwivillan said:

I think if anything we underperformed. Kept hearing at one stage if we'd won games we'd scored first in would've been 2nd. Think that was pre Covid not sure how it ended up. 

Lost McGinn who was struggling before injury from Internationals exhaustion imo.

Now have class GK and a striker who looks like scoring all those chances we created that went begging. 

I'm really optimistic. 

Ask me again after Blades game though...

Even if the Blades game doesn't go to plan I still think we're in a stronger position this season.

I think we lost 23 points from winning positions last season because we didn't have a goalscoring striker on the pitch. Simply starting with Watkins upfront makes every match way more winnable. 

We'd have finished 8th last season had we not thrown those 23 points away. That's how huge it was to not have McGinn and Wesley, the later of which was just hitting his stride in the Premier League when he was hacked down.

[TRO]

On 15/09/2020 at 17:52, nick76 said:

You did the comparison to the managers so I just did the detail.  You seem to want to play the card of comparison and then when they are compared and fall short of your argument it's because of different reasons.

You want to cherry pick points to suit your argument but it doesnt work like that.  To be honest Dyche did a great job, Howe did an even more amazing job at Bmouth but Smith took a sleeping giant in Villa who had been mismanaged for 10 years at least and he was losing half his squad and still got them to promotion and then not get relegated.  That is a massive achievement in his first 18 months.  He's started with a failing team that was managed by the respected (?!) Steve Bruce, so wasnt his team and got them promoted.  Lost half of that team and  quickly had to adapt and then in a season of Pandemic and losing Heaton, McGinn and Wes for large parts of the season (a core spine of the team) and trying to settle in a whole team of new players with all their language differences, youth, environment and experiences along with learning himself he saved us from relegation.  You compare that to Wilder who basically had a settled team that he knew and they knew him for years.  Wilder did amazing I agree but I would argue Smith did amazing given the circumstances.

You dont like the man, I dont know why!  I dont think you do either aside from wanting a big name in his place, which is fair enough but that is not where we are as a club at the moment and I'm not sure we could attract that level of manager yet either.

I do understand the sceptism in relation to Dean Smith, its not unfair, from where he has come, its natural....but he has only just started in real terms....That sceptism we have will dissipate in time, with good results, he can build his name with us, he has the backing.

My take on it is he has created cohesion and stability in the club, I get it, that some folk want a bigger name, but with the support of the owners which is amazing, he can build that name with us.....who was Ron Saunders, before he came to us, but he made his name with us.

I am still abit uneasy with the defensive side of our game, but was mightily encouraged with Deans approach after lockdown.....I too want to see swashbuckling football, but I equally recognise there are times in games you have to be resolute and composed when we haven't got the ball( watch Brighton today, that is exactly the way).....playing with the ball as opposed to without it and vice versa, throws up contrasting dynamics and its getting that balance right that establishes us as a premier league team/club.

I think we learned so much after lockdown about the game without the ball, I hope it transfers in to this season.

If we can be quicker to the ball, win second balls and improve our anticipation to turn the ball over, we will move on to another level.....I am encouraged by the signings so far, not ecstatic, because there is much work to do, but the character or the team is changing too, for the better....I also think there is a much better platform for the academy kids to be introduced in certain games and providing that composure is paramount in their development.

The signs are really good, but we are WIP still and the progress is incremental.....sure we all see weaknesses, which is normal for a WIP team, but the progress is equally as tangible.

I hope we avoid a relegation battle, baring long term injuries to key players, I think we will, but we have to be so self driven to secure points and in terms of league table set realistic goals to nurture self confidence.

Edited September 20, 2020 by TRO

[Thug]

I can’t believe we are having this conversation again.

He got us up probably 3 years ahead of schedule.

He kept us up against all odds with a tiny squad pretty much put together over a single summer.

i keep reading that our owners won’t be that patient, when they stuck with him, and indeed have him a new contract, when any other club would’ve fired him in a panicked state when we were 7 points adrift.

Lets face it.  He’s here for the long haul.  And we will be richer for it.

[TRO]

9 hours ago, Phil Silvers said:

Fair points indeed , I'd still have us targeting mid table, my own thinking is we are not ready yet and 10/12th would be very good, Deano will trying to win the league mind. Can't wait.

I would take 12th right now.

[useless]

By the time the window closes we will have spent £200m plus on our squad and Smith himself has said that last season wasn't good enough. If we're anywhere near as bad as we were last season his job will be at risk.

Edited September 20, 2020 by useless

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, useless said:

By the time the window closes we will have spent £200m plus on our squad and Smith himself has said that last season wasn't good enough. If we're anywhere near as bad as we were last season his job will be at risk.

i think you could be right.....but i hope not.

[useless]

If I'm right then it's a good thing as it shows our owners have more ambition than just barely surviving.

What we have to hope is that we're not as bad as last season, if we show progress then I'm sure he'll keep his job.

Me guess it's just a question of how much progress the owners are expecting.

[PieFacE]

14 minutes ago, useless said:

 If we're anywhere near as bad as we were last season his job will be at risk.

Rightly so too tbh.

[Phil Silvers]

18 minutes ago, useless said:

By the time the window closes we will have spent £200m plus on our squad and Smith himself has said that last season wasn't good enough. If we're anywhere near as bad as we were last season his job will be at risk.

 

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

i think you could be right.....but i hope not.

Me too, I wanted him gone a few times last year but we are WIP and so is he, would love it if he gets us success, love it.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

9 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

I think if anything we underperformed. Kept hearing at one stage if we'd won games we'd scored first in would've been 2nd. Think that was pre Covid not sure how it ended up. 

Lost McGinn who was struggling before injury from Internationals exhaustion imo.

Now have class GK and a striker who looks like scoring all those chances we created that went begging. 

I'm really optimistic. 

Ask me again after Blades game though...

Agreed mate.

There were actually quite a few games we had no business losing or drawing.

Sake of either individual clangers and terrible finishing.

[Mark_1989]

Some people on here are very naive to think that the owners won’t act if Smith gets off to a slow or rugged start. These owners appear to mean serious business and are not investing to scrape relegation this year.

We will never truly know but my sense is Smith was close to the chop after the 4-0 defeat to Leicester before lockdown. I’d probably look to assess how he is doing after 6 games and if struggling by the 10th look to change manager with nearly 75% of season left to play.

Of course I hope it isn’t a reality we have to address a I really believe we can kick on this year and I like Dean a lot. Hopefully he can become confident in his own decision making and is stronger for the tough campaign last year.

But we really need to set our sights higher than just staying up. People who would accept 17th right now frustrate me. 

Edited September 20, 2020 by Mark_1989

[Steero113]

47 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

 

Me too, I wanted him gone a few times last year but we are WIP and so is he, would love it if he gets us success, love it.

Du wirst niemals einer von uns sein

[DCJonah]

It absolutely has to be better than last season. Smith will be allowed some time for the new players to get settled 

I really hope the same crowd don't turn straight away again. He's made people look foolish the last two years 

Edited September 20, 2020 by DCJonah

[PieFacE]

10 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I really hope the same crowd don't turn straight away again. 

Sadly, they will.

[ciggiesnbeer]

I probably wont turn on him till the new year   If he can avoid the traditional Christmas Villa collapse I will be happy enough.

I am VERY interested to see how he has us play with the new folks joining us. Its the day before our first game so I am dreaming of what might be

Hopefully reality tomorrow is kind.

[VillaChris]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I would take 12th right now.

So would I. It's worth remembering we were far more established in premier league when O'Neill came in. We only finished 11th in his first season but finished that season strongly and the signings of Young and Carew that January showed we were moving in right direction and so it proved over the next few seasons.

Anything from 11th-13th is decent progress I think, 8-10th would be excellent and probably overachieving. 14th or lower and don't think the board will be satisfied with that or have the opinion he's the man to guide us in top half/europe as he's had far more say over signings this summer so that won't be an excuse if we're struggling mid season.

It's a good test for him now. Will he come up with an effective gameplan tomorrow v Sheffield as that's an opposition we've really struggled against last few seasons.

[Mark_1989]

9 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

Sadly, they will.

You say that as if people are wrong to question him?? A team that constantly gave away leads time and time again making the same mistakes, a team that was notoriously poor after HT people are allowed to question his tactics and substitutions etc. We were hurtling towards relegation till lockdown. Yes we tightened up defensively after the break but we still weren’t particularly good. I was absolutley ecstatic that he got us over the line as I want nothing more than him to be a huge success but won’t apologise for calling him out if/when he makes mistakes.   

As much as everyone wants him to succeed and love the fact he’s Villa fan etc etc There’s sadly no room for sentiment in football I’m afraid.

 

[MrBlack]

1 hour ago, Thug said:

I can’t believe we are having this conversation again.

He got us up probably 3 years ahead of schedule.

He kept us up against all odds with a tiny squad pretty much put together over a single summer.

i keep reading that our owners won’t be that patient, when they stuck with him, and indeed have him a new contract, when any other club would’ve fired him in a panicked state when we were 7 points adrift.

Lets face it.  He’s here for the long haul.  And we will be richer for it.

I hope this is the case, just going with the logic of how much we've spent and the expectations that come with it.

I'll do my best to avoid criticising Dean unfairly, but a repeat of last season would rightly draw criticism and a risk of the sack. As long as we're moving in the right direction,  I think he's safe. Also think he has enough good will to survive the first few rounds of doubt that come from the press, more so than any other manager would in the league... not sure it's a bottomless pit though.

As you say though, let's not start this conversation,  positivity is the way forward, and we're on the up! And if we do get stability it will do us the world of good.

[PieFacE]

4 minutes ago, Mark_1989 said:

You say that as if people are wrong to question him?? A team that constantly gave away leads time and time again making the same mistakes, a team that was notoriously poor after HT people are allowed to question his tactics and substitutions etc. We were hurtling towards relegation till lockdown. Yes we tightened up defensively after the break but we still weren’t particularly good. I was absolutley ecstatic that he got us over the line as I want nothing more than him to be a huge success but won’t apologise for calling him out if/when he makes mistakes.   

As much as everyone wants him to succeed and love the fact he’s Villa fan etc etc There’s sadly no room for sentiment in football I’m afraid.

 

Nope didn't say that at all. The statement I responded to was 'I hope people don't turn on him straight away'. If we're looking awful after X amount of games then fair enough to question him. But if he we lose tomorrow then I hope the Smith Out stuff doesn't start again already.