Dean Smith

[PussEKatt]

The second season is ALWAYS harder than the first because now our/your players are known and you dont take anyone by suprise as every team has already played you twice.

[Roitorb]

Very true but who on earth knows what Jack’s going to do? I don’t think he does until in the moment sometimes.

[villalad21]

3 hours ago, nick76 said:

I dont understand why you think that when he's never been at this stage/level before.  Last season was to stay up with a load of new players with a low average cost and now he's been given a chance with some higher value purchases potential.  If he doesnt succeed then I understand your point but if he hasnt been given a chance at the next level, how do you know he's hit the ceiling. 

History has shown he has completed all his previous challenges at Villa of getting promoted and then staying in the division.  You yourself a couple of days ago was saying he wasnt getting properly backed and 17th would be an achievement this up coming season and not Dean's fault.  So I fail to understand where you are coming from. 

He's succeeding in all the challenges put in front of him so far, every time the ceiling is raised he meets it, what am I missing?

That is true. He is delivering the minimum requirements.

But he isn't overachieving like Nuno and Wilder.

Also my opinion is based around his past achievements. No promotions until he arrived at a big club with a lot more resources.

You may say he had difficult working conditions at Walsall and Brentford. But to the counter argument. So had Sean Dyche, so had Eddie Howe, so had Wilder. They all got promoted and performed above what could be expected.

We will never get to the next level if all Dean Smith does is ok. Pochettino took Southampton from a team struggling to survive to a team competing in the top half of the table. That is because of the quality of the coaching.

Edited September 15, 2020 by villalad21

[Lerner's Driver]

5 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

That is true. He is delivering the minimum requirements.

But he isn't overachieving like Nuno and Wilder.

Also my opinion is based around his past achievements. No promotions until he arrived at a big club with a lot more resources.

You may say he had difficult working conditions at Walsall and Brentford. But to the counter argument. So had Sean Dyche, so had Eddie Howe, so had Wilder. They all got promoted and performed above what could be expected.

We will never get to the next level if all Dean Smith does is ok. Pochettino took Southampton from a team struggling to survive to a team competing in the top half of the table. That is because of the quality of the coaching.

You are entitled to your opinion.

[nick76]

23 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

That is true. He is delivering the minimum requirements.

But he isn't overachieving like Nuno and Wilder.

Also my opinion is based around his past achievements. No promotions until he arrived at a big club with a lot more resources.

You may say he had difficult working conditions at Walsall and Brentford. But to the counter argument. So had Sean Dyche, so had Eddie Howe, so had Wilder. They all got promoted and performed above what could be expected.

We will never get to the next level if all Dean Smith does is ok. Pochettino took Southampton from a team struggling to survive to a team competing in the top half of the table. That is because of the quality of the coaching.

Minimum requirements? Other managers couldn’t get us promoted in the seasons before but Smith did, even over the beloved Bielsa.

Wilder hadn’t achieved what Dean achieved ie promotion in his first season, hadn’t survived in the PL in his second season he was still in the championship having failed promotion.  Let’s see where Smith is in two years.

Dyche relegated after promotion, Smith not relegated after promotion.  

Howe’s first season in the PL was 16th, one place above where we ended up.

We keep going....you just don’t like the bloke with no real reason to back it up.  If you had a genuine reason then fine but all your arguments are flawed and easily rebutted.

Edited September 15, 2020 by nick76

[mjmooney]

2 hours ago, Roitorb said:

Very true but who on earth knows what Jack’s going to do? I don’t think he does until in the moment sometimes.

It's like opposition players used to say about George Best - even when you know exactly what he's going to do, you still can't prevent it. It's like hypnotism. 

[villalad21]

4 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Minimum requirements? Other managers couldn’t get us promoted in the seasons before but Smith did, even over the beloved Bielsa.

Wilder hadn’t achieved what Dean achieved ie promotion in his first season, hadn’t survived in the PL in his second season he was still in the championship having failed promotion.  Let’s see where Smith is in two years.

Dyche relegated after promotion, Smith not relegated after promotion.  

Howe’s first season in the PL was 16th, one place above where we ended up.

We keep going....you just don’t like the bloke we no real reason to back it up.  If you had a genuine reason then fine but all your arguments are flawed and easily rebutted.

It has nothing to do with not liking the man.

Also you are comparing us to very different run clubs.

Smith's time at Brentford would be much more comparable to Dyche's job at Burnley. Because of similar financial restrictions. The Villa job is very different.

Edited September 15, 2020 by villalad21

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

All I can say is that, if anyone thinks the board will be happy with anything close to the season just past, they are sadly mistaken.

[nick76]

14 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

It has nothing to do with not liking the man.

Also you are comparing us to very different run clubs.

Smith's time at Brentford would be much more comparable to Dyche's job at Burnley. Because of similar financial restrictions. The Villa job is very different.

You did the comparison to the managers so I just did the detail.  You seem to want to play the card of comparison and then when they are compared and fall short of your argument it's because of different reasons.

You want to cherry pick points to suit your argument but it doesnt work like that.  To be honest Dyche did a great job, Howe did an even more amazing job at Bmouth but Smith took a sleeping giant in Villa who had been mismanaged for 10 years at least and he was losing half his squad and still got them to promotion and then not get relegated.  That is a massive achievement in his first 18 months.  He's started with a failing team that was managed by the respected (?!) Steve Bruce, so wasnt his team and got them promoted.  Lost half of that team and  quickly had to adapt and then in a season of Pandemic and losing Heaton, McGinn and Wes for large parts of the season (a core spine of the team) and trying to settle in a whole team of new players with all their language differences, youth, environment and experiences along with learning himself he saved us from relegation.  You compare that to Wilder who basically had a settled team that he knew and they knew him for years.  Wilder did amazing I agree but I would argue Smith did amazing given the circumstances.

You dont like the man, I dont know why!  I dont think you do either aside from wanting a big name in his place, which is fair enough but that is not where we are as a club at the moment and I'm not sure we could attract that level of manager yet either.

[villalad21]

7 minutes ago, nick76 said:

You did the comparison to the managers so I just did the detail.  You seem to want to play the card of comparison and then when they are compared and fall short of your argument it's because of different reasons.

You want to cherry pick points to suit your argument but it doesnt work like that.  To be honest Dyche did a great job, Howe did an even more amazing job at Bmouth but Smith took a sleeping giant in Villa who had been mismanaged for 10 years at least and he was losing half his squad and still got them to promotion and then not get relegated.  That is a massive achievement in his first 18 months.  He's started with a failing team that was managed by the respected (?!) Steve Bruce, so wasnt his team and got them promoted.  Lost half of that team and  quickly had to adapt and then in a season of Pandemic and losing Heaton, McGinn and Wes for large parts of the season (a core spine of the team) and trying to settle in a whole team of new players with all their language differences, youth, environment and experiences along with learning himself he saved us from relegation.  You compare that to Wilder who basically had a settled team that he knew and they knew him for years.  Wilder did amazing I agree but I would argue Smith did amazing given the circumstances.

You dont like the man, I dont know why!  I dont think you do either aside from wanting a big name in his place, which is fair enough but that is not where we are as a club at the moment and I'm not sure we could attract that level of manager yet either.

Cherry picking? No i don't believe so.

I was initially comparing Smith's job at Brentford to Dyche's job at Burnley. Which are similar jobs with a lack of financial backing. Difference being Dyche achieving promotion, Smith didn't.

I think it's strange to use Smith's performance at Villa as a counter argument when it's completely different jobs.

Edited September 15, 2020 by villalad21

[nick76]

3 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Cherry picking? No i don't believe so.

I was initially comparing Smith's job at Brentford to Dyche's job at Burnley. Which are similar jobs with a lack of financial backing. Difference being Dyche achieving promotion, Smith didn't.

I think it's strange to use Smith's performance at Villa as a counter argument when it's completely different jobs.

Ok.....you never gave Smith a chance from Day One, so I shouldn’t expect you to change that now 18-24 months on despite what he’s done or even give him decent credit for anything.  It’s a shame that you bash on him every chance you get though.

[villalad21]

Just now, nick76 said:

Ok.....you never gave Smith a chance from Day One, so I shouldn’t expect you to change that now 18-24 months on despite what he’s done or even give him decent credit for anything.  It’s a shame that you bash on him every chance you get though.

Like you are bashing Keinan Davis  

[penguin]

4 hours ago, PussEKatt said:

The second season is ALWAYS harder than the first because now our/your players are known and you dont take anyone by suprise as every team has already played you twice.

I'm not so sure. Especially when you have as many new players brought in as we did, we have a largely settled spine now and you'd hope players largely on the same wave length after a season together and under Smith.

[mikeyp102]

Dean Smith has done wonders at Aston Villa. Do I think he can get us mid table. Yes. Do I think he’ll get us top 6, possibly not. But he has earnt the right to try to push us on

[nick76]

15 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Like you are bashing Keinan Davis  

It’s true, difference is I gave Davis chance in the early days and only in the last year have I given up on him and think he should be let go.  You can check my history on the Davis thread, I’ve only been really critical of him in the last year or so before that I wasn’t I was very hopeful.  

So difference is that I gave Davis a chance, you’ve never given Smith a chance.

Edited September 15, 2020 by nick76

[Aston_Villan4]

From the Guardian article on Jacks new deal. What do y’all think Deano is implying here?

 

“We’re planning this season around Jack as one of our core players, along with John McGinn, who’s like having a new signing now that he’s back at full speed, Tyrone Mings and Douglas Luiz, who finished the season fantastically,” said Smith. “If we could bring in another four or five quality players that only makes the squad better. That ups the training levels and match levels. Jack Grealish will look a better player with better players.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/sep/15/jack-grealish-signs-new-five-year-aston-villa-contract

Edited September 15, 2020 by Aston_Villan4

[villalad21]

4 minutes ago, Aston_Villan4 said:

From the Guardian article on Jacks new deal. What do y’all think Deano is implying here?

 

“We’re planning this season around Jack as one of our core players, along with John McGinn, who’s like having a new signing now that he’s back at full speed, Tyrone Mings and Douglas Luiz, who finished the season fantastically,” said Smith. “If we could bring in another four or five quality players that only makes the squad better. That ups the training levels and match levels. Jack Grealish will look a better player with better players.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/sep/15/jack-grealish-signs-new-five-year-aston-villa-contract

Is he saying Trez and El Ghazi is shit?

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

5 minutes ago, Aston_Villan4 said:

From the Guardian article on Jacks new deal. What do y’all think Deano is implying here?

 

“We’re planning this season around Jack as one of our core players, along with John McGinn, who’s like having a new signing now that he’s back at full speed, Tyrone Mings and Douglas Luiz, who finished the season fantastically,” said Smith. “If we could bring in another four or five quality players that only makes the squad better. That ups the training levels and match levels. Jack Grealish will look a better player with better players.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/sep/15/jack-grealish-signs-new-five-year-aston-villa-contract

4 or 5? Bloody hell.

Surely this includes the ones in motion?

[Sulberto21]

6 minutes ago, Aston_Villan4 said:

From the Guardian article on Jacks new deal. What do y’all think Deano is implying here?

 

“We’re planning this season around Jack as one of our core players, along with John McGinn, who’s like having a new signing now that he’s back at full speed, Tyrone Mings and Douglas Luiz, who finished the season fantastically,” said Smith. “If we could bring in another four or five quality players that only makes the squad better. That ups the training levels and match levels. Jack Grealish will look a better player with better players.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/sep/15/jack-grealish-signs-new-five-year-aston-villa-contract

That we've got money . Lol. Seriously it's something that I have said previously bring better players in then the training sessions will also be intense. They will replicate match situations better. Last season we had too many weaknesses. 

Ironically by bringing in better players those weaker players should improve. They're young enough to learn some of them.

[Sam-AVFC]

25 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

4 or 5? Bloody hell.

Surely this includes the ones in motion?

Yeah, I think when the manager is talking about the club publicly they tend to not include the deals Twitter ITKs say are definitely already done and waiting for vague reasons.