Dean Smith

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

We can all agree on 35 points last season nowhere near good enough. In a lot of PL seasons 35 points would see you relegated.

Hoping for 40-45 points this season. Anything above would be a massive achievement. Anything below would be terrible and unacceptable.

This is the second post of yours that I agree with this morning.  I think I need to lie down.

[KenjiOgiwara]

13 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

For me this is spot on. We will always have different perspectives (all fans do), though those who go on about their 10 game winning run fail to realise we won 2 out of 13 prior to that with Dean in charge. Those who argue he took us up a year ahead of schedule fail to realise we weren't far off playoffs anyway and he had a very strong squad. Those who argue he kept us up fail to realise we were knee deep in it largely due to his management and failure to tweak the system for so long. But I fully appreciate it was a difficult task last season incorporating so many players into the squad and he did very well getting us out of it at the end.

 

This season is fairer to judge him on. We have to steer clear of relegation and the first half of the season is largely favourable in terms of fixtures. We need to be well clear of relegation by Christmas given the second half of the season is tougher, hopefully we will be. 

It's also worth mentioning that before Deano it seemed all our managers signed players for the next 12 months rather and without much of a plan. It was cloggers to serve a 12 months sentence, or the flavour of the month striker to please the fans without much thought of tactics. 

Deano turned this upside down and started thinking in a bigger picture. The first few months he struggled a lot with implementing a new way of playing football. We started playing possession based with cloggers that had previously been told to hoof it and hope for the best. 

It's not like Deano is without flaws and he has definitely made mistakes, but he also have started a huge change of how football is done in this club from top to bottom. 

[Guest av1]

 

Hoping for 40-45 points this season. Anything above would be a massive achievement. Anything below would be terrible and unacceptable.

 

So 46 points would be a massive achievement, and 39 points would be terrible and unacceptable?  6 points the difference between brilliant and terrible? 

Incredible 

 

 

[MrBlack]

2 minutes ago, av1 said:

 

 

 

So 46 points would be a massive achievement, and 39 points would be terrible and unacceptable?  6 points the difference between brilliant and terrible? 

Incredible 

 

 

To be fair,  improving on last season's total by only 4 points, with the amount we've spent relative to the other lower half teams would not be a good return,  regardless of whether you think we over or under achieved last season.

Improving our total by 11 points would be a good return,  and probably see us safe with a good few games to go, and a platform to push on from next season. Expecting significantly more than that is setting yourself up for a disappointing season (at this stage)

Fine lines.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

If Watkins has an Ings-esque season we could be in for top ten...

If Martinez really is one of the best keepers in the PL we could be in for top ten...

If we sign Rashica we could be in for top ten...

If our key players stay fit we could be in for top ten...

Many permutations and not all Smith dependent.

I still firmly believe if Heaton, McGinn and Wesley were not injured for half a season we'd have been at least three wins better off last year!

Lots of ifs and buts etc.... 

[Hank Scorpio]

Let's hope he has learned from the tough times last season. He needed a big unplanned break to be able to fix the team to stay up, he may not get that luxury again so he needs to be able to think and react on the spot now.

He has my support as always and we all want him to succeed of course. Fingers crossed!

[Panto_Villan]

8 minutes ago, Pissflaps said:

Let's hope he has learned from the tough times last season. He needed a big unplanned break to be able to fix the team to stay up, he may not get that luxury again so he needs to be able to think and react on the spot now.

He has my support as always and we all want him to succeed of course. Fingers crossed!

I feel like your posts should be less levelheaded given your username / creepy Lange smile avatar.

[VillaFaninLondon]

1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

It's also worth mentioning that before Deano it seemed all our managers signed players for the next 12 months rather and without much of a plan. It was cloggers to serve a 12 months sentence, or the flavour of the month striker to please the fans without much thought of tactics. 

Deano turned this upside down and started thinking in a bigger picture. The first few months he struggled a lot with implementing a new way of playing football. We started playing possession based with cloggers that had previously been told to hoof it and hope for the best. 

It's not like Deano is without flaws and he has definitely made mistakes, but he also have started a huge change of how football is done in this club from top to bottom. 

I agree to an extent, the football initially improved but what has disappointed me most about Smith is the lack of possession we have in games. Last season only Burnley and Newcastle (I believe) had less possession than us in the Prem. I remember us playing Brentford when he was their manager and they were usually very good at keeping the ball and pressing, which makes me think it was more a systemic club thing than Dean himself. This season we have to be much better at keeping the ball. Leeds under Bielsa against Liverpool had more possession than one of the best teams in Europe that press all over the pitch. Last season against Liverpool we had about 30% possession in both games against them. It's disappointing.

 

We do however tend to have a lot of shots on average per game (we were ranked approx 10th last season I believe). This season we need to work on keeping the ball and having a decent shot count, it should see us improve. 

 

I agree on the short term thing but would make a couple of points: Bruce brought in McGinn on the cheap which was an exceptional piece of business. He also brought in Tammy (albeit on loan) without whose goals we wouldn't have gone up.

[cheltenham_villa]

We should focus more on league position than points total. The points total will vary based on the strengths of other clubs. I think were all pretty much agreed that this years target should be to improve, hoping for that 8-12th spot but clear of relegation.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

We can all agree on 35 points last season nowhere near good enough. In a lot of PL seasons 35 points would see you relegated.

Hoping for 40-45 points this season. Anything above would be a massive achievement. Anything below would be terrible and unacceptable.

Does this not depend on what happens in terms of the flow of the season? So if we were to lose say Grealish and Mings for a significant period, would 39 points and survival not ultimately be passable?

[PussEKatt]

The bottom line is that we MUST improve on last season.As we are now buying quality instead of quantity.I would expect a finishing position of 3 places higher than last season ( minimum ) and anything up to 8 positions higher than last season as a decent goal to aim for. 

[Phil Silvers]

46 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

If Watkins has an Ings-esque season we could be in for top ten...

If Martinez really is one of the best keepers in the PL we could be in for top ten...

If we sign Rashica we could be in for top ten...

If our key players stay fit we could be in for top ten...

Many permutations and not all Smith dependent.

I still firmly believe if Heaton, McGinn and Wesley were not injured for half a season we'd have been at least three wins better off last year!

Lots of ifs and buts etc.... 

If we get more when's then If's we be fine

[nick76]

33 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

I agree to an extent, the football initially improved but what has disappointed me most about Smith is the lack of possession we have in games. Last season only Burnley and Newcastle (I believe) had less possession than us in the Prem. I remember us playing Brentford when he was their manager and they were usually very good at keeping the ball and pressing, which makes me think it was more a systemic club thing than Dean himself. This season we have to be much better at keeping the ball. Leeds under Bielsa against Liverpool had more possession than one of the best teams in Europe that press all over the pitch. Last season against Liverpool we had about 30% possession in both games against them. It's disappointing.

We do however tend to have a lot of shots on average per game (we were ranked approx 10th last season I believe). This season we need to work on keeping the ball and having a decent shot count, it should see us improve. 

I agree on the short term thing but would make a couple of points: Bruce brought in McGinn on the cheap which was an exceptional piece of business. He also brought in Tammy (albeit on loan) without whose goals we wouldn't have gone up.

But we dont play a possession based game, that isnt our style so I would be surprised if our stats were good in that area given we are one of the lower teams in the premiership last season and we we dont play a possession based game.  Given the style we play your second point seems to be the stats we should be looking at ie Shots per game.  I expect our possession stats will increase over time as we buy better players but given how we play I still expect them not to be great but likewise I expect our shots per game to increase.

[AvfcRigo82]

53 minutes ago, Pissflaps said:

Let's hope he has learned from the tough times last season. He needed a big unplanned break to be able to fix the team to stay up, he may not get that luxury again so he needs to be able to think and react on the spot now.

It definately helped him and he's said as much himself.

I'm glad he looks like he is getting the opportunity to strengthen the team once again.

I am excited by what we are building.

[nick76]

9 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

The bottom line is that we MUST improve on last season.As we are now buying quality instead of quantity.I would expect a finishing position of 3 places higher than last season ( minimum ) and anything up to 8 positions higher than last season as a decent goal to aim for. 

I think 3 places above last season is progress. 

We have current players that have had their first season in the league so should be better this season.  While spending lots of money I'm not convinced we have improved massively yet.  Martinez you could compare to Heaton in the first half of last season, unfortunately we didnt have that second half.  Cash, is debatable whether he is better than Fred, I'm not convinced yet or at least that he's not materially better.  Traore is our roll of the dice, he's either going to be superb or a complete failure in true Villa style.  Then Watkins is our hope, the guy that is going to score the goals for us.

The biggest signing for us were our own players for me, Jack staying/signing a new contract and Luiz staying.  Jack will be better this season because he knows this league better plus he should have more help around him.  Luiz hopefully will progress/continue his fine form post lockdown.

I'm excited by our new signings but also a bit down, I guess I just hoped for a bit more quality (I know I'll get slaughtered for that).  Hopefully we'll get Rashica in, seems to be a player that can add something special at the top end of the pitch.  I really feel that we need another striker because if Samatta does get sold, then starting the season with only Watkins and Davis puts the fear of god in me.  If Watkins gets injured then we are in the same position as last season with Wes where we have no back up players of quality who are going to score.  I still think we need another beast of a CM.  Having 3 places split between Luiz, McGinn, Grealish, Nakamba, Conor and Lansbury (and maybe Ramsey) just seems we start great with Luiz, McGinn and Grealish and then completely fall off a cliff in quality.  I still think Jack is better further forward but that will depend on player availability and options but then we only have Luiz and McGinn.  We really need that additionally midfielder.

Anyway that isnt going to happen of another Striker, Winger and CM.  As long as we get the first two though.

So despite the money being spent, my first goal is to survive and get 40 points and then anything additional to that is a bonus, with hopes if things go massively well that we can touch 50 points but would be happy with a comfortable 15th position.  As while we finished with 35 points we were at 27 points after 34 games.  So would like to be 4 wins at least better off at that point at around 40 points by 34 games.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

@nick76 I do agree in certain respects as we are only a couple of injuries away from a crisis again.

However, the new acquisitions are improvements. I'd still hope for two more signings (after Rashica).

We must be aiming higher than 40 points though, surely!

Edited September 21, 2020 by Zhan_Zhuang

[nick76]

3 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

@nick76 I do agree in certain respects as we are only a couple of injuries away from a crisis again.

However, the new acquisitions are improvements. I'd still hope for two more signings (after Rashica).

We must be aiming higher than 40 points though, surely!

I think your first target in our position has to be 40 points.  I think people shooting us up to top ten are a little too optimistic, as I said if we could touch 50 points that would be a massively successful season for me and based on 2019/20 season would have us in 12th.  That would be 5 more wins than last season and 23 more points than where we were after 34 games when we were on 27 points.  I keep going back to that 27 points because that was how we had played/performed for most of the season.  We had an exceptional final 4 games but that final four games was not the rule of how we played last season it was the exception.  Can we keep that up, it would be amazing but at 2 points per games I think we all agree we arent a 76 point a season team just yet? 

I agree the acquisitions are improvements, just the level of improvement is the discussion and we have to be careful and some are likely to fail, just the way football is.  I dont think the improvements are what we thought they were going to be so far.  Replacing Heaton is a great move especially if Heaton is crooked for longer but Emi is materially better than Heaton but is significantly better than Nyland.  I dont understand Cash vs Fred, just seems competition between the two, I dont much difference there and so forth as I discussed in the previous post.

Our target should be top ten with a figure of around 55 points, you should always aim to overachieve and when you fail you are still happy with the outcome.  The likelyhood is more around the 45 points mark, which still gets you a 13th position.  The first target though has to be to hit 40 points.  As soon as you hit that you are safe(r) and then we can be pushing for the 45-50 point mark

[VillaFaninLondon]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

But we dont play a possession based game, that isnt our style so I would be surprised if our stats were good in that area given we are one of the lower teams in the premiership last season and we we dont play a possession based game.  Given the style we play your second point seems to be the stats we should be looking at ie Shots per game.  I expect our possession stats will increase over time as we buy better players but given how we play I still expect them not to be great but likewise I expect our shots per game to increase.

So how would you describe our style? I would say a generous description would be gung ho, but gung ho shouldn't mean having possession stats only higher than Newcastle and Burnley who are pretty much long ball teams. Wolves for example are a counter attacking team primarily but ranked around midtable for possession stats. 

 

As I say it needs to improve. Of course it helps to keep the ball if you have better players (look at Cit£h), but Leeds don't have a team of stars and can do it easily. It's about pressing, fitness and composure, all of which can be taught. Plus we have plenty of quality midfielders who can play a technical game. 

Edited September 21, 2020 by VillaFaninLondon

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Does this not depend on what happens in terms of the flow of the season? So if we were to lose say Grealish and Mings for a significant period, would 39 points and survival not ultimately be passable?

Good point and that's before you even factor in the Ebbs! 

If we lose either of these players to injury I think I'd cry.

[PussEKatt]

@nick76: I agree that our top priority should be 40 points BUT only so far as to avoid relegation.We should really be aiming for mid table,bearing in mind the players have had a season in the PL and taking into account our new signings so far.Having said that,if we dont sign a second striker we are asking for trouble.