Dean Smith

[Dave-R]

2 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Anyone thinking this season won't be another battle for survival need a reality check.

Yeah I've a feeling we will be down there somewhere in the lower half unless we being in players who are much better than the names we have see in the media.

I stick by what I said when we should be aiming to look for the next quality from clubs like Madrid, Juventus, Milan, Barcelona and so on. The top clubs do it and do it well in signing the next big prospect from those clubs. If were only looking at upgrading our front line for time being, there is no reason why we shouldnt be trying to lure players from such clubs in Europe. There is a reason that pool, city, chelsea and utd are onto you all game and part of the reason is the type of player they look for from those clubs and they do it in a way that we dont over here, they drill for like crazy to go get that ball back in possession.

I'm not as confident in Watkins and Benrahma as others,they may do ok but people are drooling over what they accomplished at championship level, it will be significantly less at premier level. As for Origi I feel that we are just getting a pool player whos been out the picture for a long time, that he will struggle at this club.

But who knows it may all turn out ok if we went for those three and got them. I'm no coach but at those prices of buying Watkins, Benrahma,Origi, add an extra 10 or 20 mill more each player and could certainly buy 30-40 mill players from those top clubs abroad and no doubt will spend better adding much better quality.

[Mjvilla]

7 hours ago, villalad21 said:

What is a good season?

To me that's progression. 38-42 points this season and i'll be very happy.

Anything above 42 would be above what can be expected.

I can almost guarantee that if we are running at this level of point margin through the season, you will be moaning like mad and asking for Dean out.

[Phil Silvers]

8th 56 points

[VillaFaninLondon]

2 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Anyone thinking this season won't be another battle for survival need a reality check.

For someone who was so anti-Smith last season (much like me) I find it strange that you have come to this conclusion. 
 

I don’t agree with you at all, if we’re struggling again after another summer of heavy investment I’ll be so angry. I don’t expect us to suddenly jump into the top half but we absolutely cannot be in another battle for survival next season.
 

If we are struggling again and Smith gets £100mil+ to spend on players of his choice this summer, I don’t see how the manager can survive. There’s no Suso to blame this time around. 

[VillaFaninLondon]

1 hour ago, VillaChris said:

I'd go for 12th as a good season, 10 points clear of 18th so safe from relegation by early April. Finishing above established sides like Burnley and Palace which I don't think is unrealistic. Top half would be amazing as we were about 16 points off that this season.

Would require us to have a much stronger defensive base and take far more points off the top 7 so we'll soon see if last seasons good end was just a mirage. I do think beating Arsenal was a massive mental result for us and we should get a few more draws and wins v likes of Spurs Arsenal and Chelsea next season.

12th for me should be a realistic point to aim for and a solid season I would be happy with. I think we can get at least 10 more points than last season if we recruit well and if we make better tactical decisions. 
 

So to get to a safe and stable position just below midtable, a lot will rest on who we buy (needs to be a big improvement on who we have currently in certain positions) and how the manager does in his second season. If he approaches games sensibly and not with the gung ho attitude that caused us to drop so many points last season, a season of stability should be within our reach.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

Potentially we could be struggling to invest in the players needed to push on and get us up the table a bit.

Next-level players might not be keen on joining Villa due to our struggles last season?

Maybe it is money too, we seem to be quite low paying when it comes to salaries...

[KenjiOgiwara]

I'd be happy if we improved one place in the league tbh, but goes without saying that a big investment in new players will change that. 

Ultimately I think we got too many crap players and a fundamentally poor squad, to ask for anything other than a minor improvement. 

I have nothing against going for the very best championship has to offer and more importantly adding English players to the squad.

But it's dependant of the fees being asked. North of £ 20 million and I get vary. Inflation and values have changed, but even taking that into account it's a lot of money. 

[villalad21]

20 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

For someone who was so anti-Smith last season (much like me) I find it strange that you have come to this conclusion. 
 

I don’t agree with you at all, if we’re struggling again after another summer of heavy investment I’ll be so angry. I don’t expect us to suddenly jump into the top half but we absolutely cannot be in another battle for survival next season.
 

If we are struggling again and Smith gets £100mil+ to spend on players of his choice this summer, I don’t see how the manager can survive. There’s no Suso to blame this time around. 

All you want to see is progression. And 38-42 points would be that. We need to get closer to Brighton and Newcastle.

My criticism last season was mainly due to the fact that the players simply didn't turn up most weeks.

But if we see a different mentality and finish on the 40 point mark, we can't complain much. That's moving into the right direction.

[Awol]

Finished 5th in the Championship then 17th in the Prem. If we ‘expected’ the same degree of progress this season I think 10th would be very acceptable to everyone, from owners to fans. 

To have a chance of doing that we’d need to drop another £150M this summer. I think we will. 

[Delphinho123]

35 minutes ago, Awol said:

Finished 5th in the Championship then 17th in the Prem. If we ‘expected’ the same degree of progress this season I think 10th would be very acceptable to everyone, from owners to fans. 

To have a chance of doing that we’d need to drop another £150M this summer. I think we will. 

Doubt it will be 150, more like 100-120. We need 4/5 players with that. All need to be good enough to start. If you can somehow find a starlet for 10-15m, it will make the job a lot easier. 

[Davkaus]

40 points isn't bad. 5 points per season improvement has us winning the league in 13 years.

[Dave-R]

2 hours ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

For someone who was so anti-Smith last season (much like me) I find it strange that you have come to this conclusion. 
 

I don’t agree with you at all, if we’re struggling again after another summer of heavy investment I’ll be so angry. I don’t expect us to suddenly jump into the top half but we absolutely cannot be in another battle for survival next season.
 

If we are struggling again and Smith gets £100mil+ to spend on players of his choice this summer, I don’t see how the manager can survive. There’s no Suso to blame this time around. 

No but if were going for championship players or players from abroad in clubs that are not top clubs in those top leagues or premier league cast offs, if we had the chance to get much better then it's not Smiths fault is it. if something wrong happens to our season then recruitment can be blamed again because some of us have highlighted we should be trying to sign much better quality.

Am I concerned over recruitment, yes I am if it's from a media point of view. Another point is we need to start putting much better around Grealish so he can himself get better and make better plays. I dont see how we will be putting better around Grealish if we bring the likes of Watkins and Benrahma or Origi into the team.

We have a chance to make a mark in the premier, I dont think we will with those three signings. We may just survive again and I will not be happy one bit, neither will anyone else, some will blame recruitment for it, others will blame Smirh and the latter wouldnt be to blame there if the signings turn out to be lacking because we went recruiting to a standard below the league were actually in.

[Rodders]

other clubs who stay up - freak instance of leicester aside - take a while to progress from lower mid table. We have a bit more size and good owners which helps, but I'd say 12th or above would be a very good season, with no last day or even last month nerves about dropping down. Our spread of realistic possible positions is 7th at absolute nail everything season to be the best of the rest, down to 16th/17th which would be poor. And there are 10/11 other clubs thinking the same way. Roughly, 7-9th - excellent, 10th-12th very good 13-14th- - solid, 15th and below a bit disappointing / failure depending on how far below! 

But it will also depend on the contexts - if we have mass injuries, that 15th might be a solid result, if there are no injuries and we start well, maybe top 10 becomes a more feasible target. But we haven't even signed people yet ( for the first team ) 

[TRO]

4 hours ago, Dave-R said:

Yeah I've a feeling we will be down there somewhere in the lower half unless we being in players who are much better than the names we have see in the media.

I stick by what I said when we should be aiming to look for the next quality from clubs like Madrid, Juventus, Milan, Barcelona and so on. The top clubs do it and do it well in signing the next big prospect from those clubs. If were only looking at upgrading our front line for time being, there is no reason why we shouldnt be trying to lure players from such clubs in Europe. There is a reason that pool, city, chelsea and utd are onto you all game and part of the reason is the type of player they look for from those clubs and they do it in a way that we dont over here, they drill for like crazy to go get that ball back in possession.

I'm not as confident in Watkins and Benrahma as others,they may do ok but people are drooling over what they accomplished at championship level, it will be significantly less at premier level. As for Origi I feel that we are just getting a pool player whos been out the picture for a long time, that he will struggle at this club.

But who knows it may all turn out ok if we went for those three and got them. I'm no coach but at those prices of buying Watkins, Benrahma,Origi, add an extra 10 or 20 mill more each player and could certainly buy 30-40 mill players from those top clubs abroad and no doubt will spend better adding much better quality.

you know your football Dave.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, villalad21 said:

All you want to see is progression. And 38-42 points would be that. We need to get closer to Brighton and Newcastle.

My criticism last season was mainly due to the fact that the players simply didn't turn up most weeks.

But if we see a different mentality and finish on the 40 point mark, we can't complain much. That's moving into the right direction.

that is still too close for comfort for me.......we should be aiming to finish with 45 -50 points...15-10th should be where we aim for.

[Tomaszk]

4 hours ago, Dave-R said:

Yeah I've a feeling we will be down there somewhere in the lower half unless we being in players who are much better than the names we have see in the media.

I stick by what I said when we should be aiming to look for the next quality from clubs like Madrid, Juventus, Milan, Barcelona and so on. The top clubs do it and do it well in signing the next big prospect from those clubs. If were only looking at upgrading our front line for time being, there is no reason why we shouldnt be trying to lure players from such clubs in Europe. There is a reason that pool, city, chelsea and utd are onto you all game and part of the reason is the type of player they look for from those clubs and they do it in a way that we dont over here, they drill for like crazy to go get that ball back in possession.

I'm not as confident in Watkins and Benrahma as others,they may do ok but people are drooling over what they accomplished at championship level, it will be significantly less at premier level. As for Origi I feel that we are just getting a pool player whos been out the picture for a long time, that he will struggle at this club.

But who knows it may all turn out ok if we went for those three and got them. I'm no coach but at those prices of buying Watkins, Benrahma,Origi, add an extra 10 or 20 mill more each player and could certainly buy 30-40 mill players from those top clubs abroad and no doubt will spend better adding much better quality.

Not sure I understand this post.

You want to sign players from Madrid, Juve, Milan and Barca?

Milan maybe realistic as they've been off it for the last few years, the rest no chance.

Why do you think we can get these players?

Ah, maybe you mean backups like Origi? Oh...no, you don't want him either?

You want to sign starting players from Champions League teams? Obviously they would improve us, but how do you think that's going to happen?

Watkins and Rashica would be brilliant signings for where we are. Don't fancy Origi myself. Benrahma would probably succeed here and would definitely improve us right now.

[Dave-R]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

you know your football Dave.

I wouldnt say I know it TRO to be fair, far more knowledgeable people about on VT at football than me that includes you  I just like to think I pay attention here and there and look at many possibilities or outcomes.

I think without a doubt we would be making a massive mistake if we signed championship level players, isnt that part of the reason why we had to get a whole new team besides the other of they were nearing end of contract. Sure Watkins and Benrahma have set the championship on fire and who know they may surely set the premier on fire. But for a combo of what 40 to 50 mill that is a massive risk. If were going to be in a league that is the top in the world and compete, then you take your signings from that top league or the next best, that certainly isnt the championship. Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A and more come after premier, some say those three are on par in some ways with the premier. We would be making a huge mistake n half by not signing from them. People always say each season that the top clubs are top because other clubs are held back because of the way the rules are set up for the premier league including the addition of VAR. They are also on top because of where they take there signings from and we should take special note from that. While the rest are signing championship level players, players from premiere league clubs who are selling lastvseason or seasons before players for good reason, those top clubs are buying the best out there.

The top clubs are making money off everyone else in the league by selling there signings who dont make the team, they know theres little chance or they wont ever be as good as what they got them playing at, I spose that's the data they have. We have to make sure we dont fall into the trap of buying benchers, injury prone or once was players anymore, not to mention players who are a fair level under the league we are in. Again not saying Watkins and Benrahma are not able to make the premier, after all some players from there should be able to make it to premier football but its bloody tough to transition. 

As you said TRO some week back that we should be looking at all directions of the transfer market and I hope your right and we are. I would very much like us to sign players who do not give room to manuvre, that shut you down all game long, who will make players sweat before 10 mins has gone by and I believe the top clubs in europe play like this that includes the top of premier. Football is ever changing and the game isnt so much sit back anymore, attacking football seems to be the bees knees and the pool, city, utd and chelsea certainly have players that dont give you any room to breath. I'll say again Luiz came from city, he has obviously learnt to do exactly what I'm trying to explain and we are fortunate to of got him and we should aim to be buying more players that play like that and intercept like crazy. Sure thats Luiz position and his job as CDM, but you look abroad and most players on the field are all game long running at one and other to accomplish one goal, which is to obtain the ball back. Our English leagues our players back off and back off and give to much space to players who drive the ball forward, but what about players who want the ball back off opposition?? You see it all to much where we ourselves have been shouting for our players to get in there and put pressure on opposition because without that constant pressure less and less mistakes are made. Dont let opposition breath, dont give room, dont give up chasing opposition, it causes mistakes and tires opposition out.  However you buy english players to accomplish that and it takes an awful long time to train them up once you've signed them, the top German, Spanish, Italian and Dutch league however train for that in most there teams, they are ball winners, stamina freaks, with pace and fast turn speed players by nature and trade.

 

Edited August 15, 2020 by Dave-R

[Dave-R]

39 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Not sure I understand this post.

You want to sign players from Madrid, Juve, Milan and Barca?

Milan maybe realistic as they've been off it for the last few years, the rest no chance.

Why do you think we can get these players?

Ah, maybe you mean backups like Origi? Oh...no, you don't want him either?

You want to sign starting players from Champions League teams? Obviously they would improve us, but how do you think that's going to happen?

Watkins and Rashica would be brilliant signings for where we are. Don't fancy Origi myself. Benrahma would probably succeed here and would definitely improve us right now.

I'm just throwing those teams up as examples Tomaszk, there are other teams in there leagues that we could look into as well, a fair many more.

I'm not saying Benrahma would make us better in a sense, let's face it when you have Ghazzi and Trezegeut,  Benrahma looks a class and more above them.

Without going into the long essay again as I have done, I'm basically trying to explain why the top clubs in the premier are as succesful as they are, because they dont really sign from the championships, do they now? They have a strategy to go sign from those clubs and yes they go for the more expensive ones who are without a doubt the world class signings. We have to in some way try and get onto that way of signings from those clubs, it can be done and when your signing a two or three new players each season then it becomes more of a reality, especially when your backed by your Owners with money and we are. We do not know how much our Owners have given the club to spend, it could be higher or lower than 100 mill. What I hope though is if it is 100+ mill that we do try without a doubt to go lure a player or two from those clubs. Really the premier is four to six clubs and the rest do not compare partly because the difference in signings made, the pool of players the rest of the league signs compared to those top six is a big difference in talent, wouldnt you say so?? I think we have to make better signings if were to be competitive in this league once more. If theres a chance of us signing such players from some of the best clubs abroad wouldnt you rather us do so?? yes or no or are you happy with the names you have seen by the media because I'm not to be honest apart from Rashica..

[Tomaszk]

1 minute ago, Dave-R said:

I'm just throwing those teams up as examples Tomaszk, there are other teams in there leagues that we could look into as well, a fair many more.

I'm not saying Benrahma would make us better in a sense, let's face it when you have Ghazzi and Trezegeut,  Benrahma looks a class and more above them.

Without going into the long essay again as I have done, I'm basically trying to explain why the top clubs in the premier are as succesful as they are, because they dont really sign from the championships, do they now? They have a strategy to go sign from those clubs and yes they go for the more expensive ones who are without a doubt the world class signings. We have to in some way try and get onto that way of signings from those clubs, it can be done and when your signing a two or three new players each season then it becomes more of a reality, especially when your backed by your Owners with money and we are. We do not know how much our Owners have given the club to spend, it could be higher or lower than 100 mill. What I hope though is if it is 100+ mill that we do try without a doubt to go lure a player or two from those clubs. Really the premier is four to six clubs and the rest do not compare partly because the difference in signings made, the pool of players the rest of the league signs compared to those top six is a big difference in talent, wouldnt you say so?? I think we have to make better signings if were to be competitive in this league once more. If theres a chance of us signing such players from some of the best clubs abroad wouldnt you rather us do so?? yes or no or are you happy with the names you have seen by the media because I'm not to be honest apart from Rashica..

Players like who? Starting players of Champions League clubs?

Yes, I'd love to sign them. I'd also love to sign Messi but it's not going to happen. We could offer him £1m a week he ain't coming.

I'd love to sign Werner for £50m like Chelsea just have but it's not going to happen. We could have offered him the same wage as Chelsea and he probably wouldn't even have come to discuss the move.

You can't just say the top teams sign better players so we should. Leicester became the side they are from non-league Vardy and three or four bargain buys. And a freebie from Villa's bench.

It doesn't matter where players come from, only if they're good enough. I hope our new recruitment squad don't let us down like last summer's lot.

I'd LOVE to sign Watkins and Rashica. They are the only two players we've been linked to by journalists who know anything so I'm hoping they come off.

[Dave-R]

4 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Players like who? Starting players of Champions League clubs?

Yes, I'd love to sign them. I'd also love to sign Messi but it's not going to happen. We could offer him £1m a week he ain't coming.

I'd love to sign Werner for £50m like Chelsea just have but it's not going to happen. We could have offered him the same wage as Chelsea and he probably wouldn't even have come to discuss the move.

You can't just say the top teams sign better players so we should. Leicester became the side they are from non-league Vardy and three or four bargain buys. And a freebie from Villa's bench.

It doesn't matter where players come from, only if they're good enough. I hope our new recruitment squad don't let us down like last summer's lot.

I'd LOVE to sign Watkins and Rashica. They are the only two players we've been linked to by journalists who know anything so I'm hoping they come off.

I'm not talking about there best players because we wouldnt be able to afford god knows what price Messi would be, that would just kill our budget in one right? And players like him will want god knows what and to expect champions league football. They most likely have players though that are not happy there like any other club who will be sold for not nearly as much as Messi would be, who would be very excellent for us. We wont know though unless we try to test the waters on our capability in the transfer market if we just dont go there to begin with.

True many probably would not join at the moment because we have to work Villa back upto an excellent place to play once more. At same time there are those players that would join also where they also would hopefully see us as a premier club and there way into the league and to make a name for themselves.

Remember that those clubs like every other are always selling there players, if not more to be honest.

No your right you cant just say that about the top clubs and signing the best then we go do it, it does not work like that. It doesnt hurt to start trying to adopt a transfer style like it and try to find some players from those clubs or those leagues. Like I said if were to start making a mark somewhere along the line we are going to have to prize someone from some top clubs or we will never see a position that Grant's us European football, let alone do well there.

I just hope we are looking everywhere and I do to hope they don't let us down also. We have to keep moving forward as a club and that means quality in signings over the coming seasons that have to progress as well.