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Dean Smith


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38 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Can’t argue that they weren’t mentally strong in the final ten games especially the final four games.  To get through all that pressure, all those doubters and survive against the odds....there had to be mental strength and he got them strong to survive.  You aren’t a fan of his but he got them right and they mentally held on against the odds and arguably  pushed through that barrier to get 8 points in the final 4 games....that’s strength.

It was an impressive turnaround.

It was the same last season.

But it's no good to only turn up in the last 10 games. Team has to be on it from start to finish.

Edited by villalad21
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1 hour ago, TRO said:

Because securing points is a balanced combination of scoring and not conceding, with game management thrown in.

in a ridiculous scenario you could secure 38 points without scoring a goal, if you draw 0-0 in every game......whilst that statement is totally hypothetical, there is a message that can't be ignored.....if you concede too many goals in this league, you are dead meat.

getting that balance right is crucial to us and I hope he can...but we do need some good players to help do it.

This season a team could have stayed up by scoring only 12 goals and conceding 100. Provided that the 12 goals they scored came in 1-0 wins. They would have a goal difference of -88 but would have still stayed up. It is all about how and when you score and concede. I would rather lose 6-0 and the following game win 1-0 than lose 3-2 twice in a row even though our goal difference would be much better in the second scenario. Not all goals are equal in importance even if they are worth the same. 

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We survived because as some have mentioned on here our players seem to be united and we have been able to improve defensively.I think pre lockdown we had conceded more goals from set pieces and post lockdown don’t think we conceded any?

Many of our players at the start of the season were not “premier league ready” Guilbert,Luiz ,Konsa ,Targett  etc who have improved hugely as the season has progressed and now able to perform consistently.

How we survived with a forward line of Davis, Samatha and El gazi( total goals 2 or 3) is a miracle.

The most positive thing for me about Smith was the way he changed our set up post lockdown and he has shown he is learning how to play in the premier league.

 

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10 minutes ago, MotoMkali said:

This season a team could have stayed up by scoring only 12 goals and conceding 100. Provided that the 12 goals they scored came in 1-0 wins. They would have a goal difference of -88 but would have still stayed up. It is all about how and when you score and concede. I would rather lose 6-0 and the following game win 1-0 than lose 3-2 twice in a row even though our goal difference would be much better in the second scenario. Not all goals are equal in importance even if they are worth the same. 

But it doesn't work that way. If you concede 100 goals there is almost no way you would keep a clean sheet, let alone 12. 100 goals in 26 games mean 4 goals a game then you win 12 one nil.  Generally if you have a leaky defence you need a filthy attack to compensate. Usually the defense is leaky because too much emphasis is on the attack. The balance between defence and attack is relative to the quality of your players. The weaker your team the more a well drilled organised defence will benefit you. If you have have lots of quality players then you can afford to show more ambition in attack.

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I'd like us to win the ball further up the field this season. I also think that we don't have to sit and absorb against the top teams as much if we can match their physicality. We can be defensive but from the opposition half. 

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1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

It was an impressive turnaround.

It was the same last season.

But it's no good to only turn up in the last 10 games. Team has to be on it from start to finish.

For whatever reason, and I am not going to speculate.....but he clearly learnt a lot from studying our previous games during lockdown.

I have been critical as much as anyone, but maybe I underestimated how much work there was to be done......However it is clear to me he addressed the defensive side of our game and that is not just the back four.

Going in to next season, whe should have better players, he will have more support staff, ( maybe time to think better) and he will be a season wiser having come through a tough season, I am hoping we can avoid a season long relegation battle.

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1 hour ago, MotoMkali said:

This season a team could have stayed up by scoring only 12 goals and conceding 100. Provided that the 12 goals they scored came in 1-0 wins. They would have a goal difference of -88 but would have still stayed up. It is all about how and when you score and concede. I would rather lose 6-0 and the following game win 1-0 than lose 3-2 twice in a row even though our goal difference would be much better in the second scenario. Not all goals are equal in importance even if they are worth the same. 

Yeah, I get that.

but losing by a huge score drains confidence like a sieve, there is nothing like draining confidence than getting mullered.....Hence why Southampton made an amazing comeback from that Leicester massacre.

I think you will find, that most pundits put big store in not conceding in the Prem if you want to stay up......that is not to say Scoring is'nt  paramount too.

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2 hours ago, TRO said:

Yeah, I get that.

but losing by a huge score drains confidence like a sieve, there is nothing like draining confidence than getting mullered.....Hence why Southampton made an amazing comeback from that Leicester massacre.

I think you will find, that most pundits put big store in not conceding in the Prem if you want to stay up......that is not to say Scoring is'nt  paramount too.

The teams that scored over 40 goals stayed up. Bournemouth scored 40 and went down which is very unlucky for them. But again that puts them in pretty unlikely company and they were only a whisker away from survival. Goals scored remains the best indicator for survival before the final points tally. And it is why improving our attack is such a priority for us because if we score 50 goals we will pretty much be guaranteed midtable. 

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4 hours ago, Philosopher said:

But it doesn't work that way. If you concede 100 goals there is almost no way you would keep a clean sheet, let alone 12. 100 goals in 26 games mean 4 goals a game then you win 12 one nil.  Generally if you have a leaky defence you need a filthy attack to compensate. Usually the defense is leaky because too much emphasis is on the attack. The balance between defence and attack is relative to the quality of your players. The weaker your team the more a well drilled organised defence will benefit you. If you have have lots of quality players then you can afford to show more ambition in attack.

Yeah i get that but the point is that it is scoring in the right games that keeps you up. We got mullered 3 times this season and got spanked by Watford and Southampton. Yet we stayed up. When Newcastle finished 6th with a goal difference of +5. Every other team around them finished with a goal difference of +15.

Let's face it we should have picked and chosen our battles this season. Playing mings every game, playing mcginn through a thigh injury, playing targett every game. Was a recipe for disaster. Mings got injured for 3 games and we lost against relegation rivals, we also lost against a completely winnable game against spurs because of his absence. Mcginn was under performing and then picked up a broken ankle when mings was missing because he was frustrated with our results. Targett has been a liability in several games but is a wonderful asset against teams outside the top 8. Targett got injured against wolves twice this season and we are very lucky he wasn't out for multiple games. 

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9 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Some problems mentally?

An important job of a manager is to get his players mentally strong.

He got them in the end. Even Moyes and Pearson had same problem. Howe too. You can’t fault Smith after staying up instead of an established Bournemouth or Watford. If we were in a relegation battle with 3 Norwich’s I’d say it’s not an achievement. But the way he came back and the character we’ve shown (two seasons on row) when it mattered, shows what Smith got.

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Think Shakespeare will really help him on the training ground. Guy has worked at the top level (champions league) and with some excellent managers, hopefully a few words in his ear in what to do early in second halves when we're either leading or under sustained pressure would also be of help.

Still think he needs to get off to a good start to next season. We'll invest again, probably keep Grealish now so one win from our first 8-9 games which is what I think we started last season with won't be such of a free pass this time as we won't have as many players to integrate into the 11. And we need to get far more points off top 10 teams so having a hard start to the season won't wash either.

Interesting how he copes with the increased expectation now.

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5 hours ago, villalad21 said:

It was an impressive turnaround.

It was the same last season.

But it's no good to only turn up in the last 10 games. Team has to be on it from start to finish.

Like a Bielsa team. 

Never seen one of them fade away at the end of a season..... Oh

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2 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

The teams that scored over 40 goals stayed up. Bournemouth scored 40 and went down which is very unlucky for them. But again that puts them in pretty unlikely company and they were only a whisker away from survival. Goals scored remains the best indicator for survival before the final points tally. And it is why improving our attack is such a priority for us because if we score 50 goals we will pretty much be guaranteed midtable. 

I partially  disagree....but that sounds like I am saying scoring is secondary and It is not what I am trying to imply.

In truth, you need both.....but its harder to score than deny an opponent scoring.

I think post Lockdown, showed this.....defending better, kept us up. IMV.....However, since Lockdown our offensive capability has deteriorated, so it does need prime attention, I accept that.

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6 hours ago, Philosopher said:

But it doesn't work that way. If you concede 100 goals there is almost no way you would keep a clean sheet, let alone 12. 100 goals in 26 games mean 4 goals a game then you win 12 one nil.  Generally if you have a leaky defence you need a filthy attack to compensate. Usually the defense is leaky because too much emphasis is on the attack. The balance between defence and attack is relative to the quality of your players. The weaker your team the more a well drilled organised defence will benefit you. If you have have lots of quality players then you can afford to show more ambition in attack.

Its precisely the way I see it.

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19 minutes ago, TRO said:

I partially  disagree....but that sounds like I am saying scoring is secondary and It is not what I am trying to imply.

In truth, you need both.....but its harder to score than deny an opponent scoring.

I think post Lockdown, showed this.....defending better, kept us up. IMV.....However, since Lockdown our offensive capability has deteriorated, so it does need prime attention, I accept that.

Post lockdown we defended better because we had to. We couldn't score multiple goals a game. We only scored 2 goals in one game. So we had to defend as well as we did otherwise we would have gone down. Luiz turned I to an excellent DM and that alone would have seen us conceding far less and would have kept us up imo. If we had wesley upfront (aka someone who can score and offers a threat unlike samagoal and Davis) 

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9 hours ago, villalad21 said:

It was an impressive turnaround.

It was the same last season.

But it's no good to only turn up in the last 10 games. Team has to be on it from start to finish.

No shit Sherlock.  You think Smith and co are planning for another good end to next season and forgetting about the rest of it?

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10 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I’m still not convinced he can take us to the next level (whatever that is). But he 100% deserves a crack at it.

I have big doubts and would have replaced him while still acknowledging a farcically successful two seasons.

That's not happening and yes, he has earned a go. Good luck Deano. 

The various staffing additions can only be a positive overall and I think there's going to be few caveats (Grealish leaving would be a big one but it feels good atm, I think he's staying) to excuse him if we aren't noticeably better next season. We should be better.

Plus there's definitely two sides weaker than us in Fulham and Albion. Going into last season there looked to be none definitively.

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4 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

I have big doubts and would have replaced him while still acknowledging a farcically successful two seasons.

That's not happening and yes, he has earned a go. Good luck Deano. 

The various staffing additions can only be a positive overall and I think there's going to be few caveats (Grealish leaving would be a big one but it feels good atm, I think he's staying) to excuse him if we aren't noticeably better next season. We should be better.

Plus there's definitely two sides weaker than us in Fulham and Albion. Going into last season there looked to be none definitively.

Pretty sure Shef United were favourites to go down so wouldn’t be so sure. 

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10 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Pretty sure Shef United were favourites to go down so wouldn’t be so sure. 

We came up as playoff winners with no keeper, defenders or strikers.

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