Dean Smith

[villalad21]

8 hours ago, KentVillan said:

           Reina
Elmo    Konsa  Mings  Targett
           Luiz
      McGinn  Hourihane
Trezeguet            Grealish
          Samatta

I really like that team apart from Samatta.

Shame Reina is gone. Heaton is injured. I'm terrified of our keeper situation.

[Jas10]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

I really like that team apart from Samatta.

Shame Reina is gone. Heaton is injured. I'm terrified of our keeper situation.

 

 

 

[mjmooney]

11 hours ago, KentVillan said:

Smith has basically had to build a team from scratch in the summer, and then build another team from scratch when Heaton, Engels, Wesley and McGinn picked up long-term injuries.

I don't think this is given enough emphasis. The spine of the team was ripped out. In particular, the loss of Heaton and the rotation of dodgy keepers that followed meant that the defence never got a chance to form an understanding with their goalie, always a recipe for mistakes. In this respect, I think the enforced break may have been a godsend - Reina and his defenders looked like a far more settled unit after the restart. 

Couple those defence issues with a total lack of goalscorers up front, and it's no surprise we struggled. We'll need to have better squad depth next season. 

[DCJonah]

22 hours ago, TRO said:

I think the mere fact that Dean changed his stance after lockdown, and thank god he did......would suggest by deduction he got it wrong in the earlier parts of the season.

I know many folk are tantalised by the " is it the players or is it the manager".....but it was with the same players Dean managed to stop the bleeding of goals against, sure lockdown, give him that time to work with.

but it makes you wonder.

Predictable.

When you look at the likes of Konza, Luiz and Trezeguet, do you really believe it was just bad decisions by Smith or inexperienced players taking time to get to grips with the premier league?

He lost his first 2 keepers, having to play Nyland, who he's tried to replace every single transfer window he had. 

He had a group of strikers who scored a combined 6 goals all season. Losing the guy who scored 5 of them in January. 

Lockdown provided an opportunity to really analyse and work on certain things, which is usually what pre season is for. Our issue was we had players signed late in the window and had so many new players that it was never going to be easy. 

But I guess to you and his critics it was just smith making bad decisions and then not. 

[Tomaszk]

56 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Predictable.

When you look at the likes of Konza, Luiz and Trezeguet, do you really believe it was just bad decisions by Smith or inexperienced players taking time to get to grips with the premier league?

He lost his first 2 keepers, having to play Nyland, who he's tried to replace every single transfer window he had. 

He had a group of strikers who scored a combined 6 goals all season. Losing the guy who scored 5 of them in January. 

Lockdown provided an opportunity to really analyse and work on certain things, which is usually what pre season is for. Our issue was we had players signed late in the window and had so many new players that it was never going to be easy. 

But I guess to you and his critics it was just smith making bad decisions and then not. 

You can set your watch to the criticism. More will come with bad pre-season results 

For reference we won every game of pre-season last year...then went on to scrape survival.

Really nicely summed up by Adam.

21 hours ago, Adam2003 said:

Criticising people for making improvements as a sign they didn’t get it right before is asking everyone to be perfect from day one. That doesn’t happen in any career.

 

[TRO]

On 09/08/2020 at 16:30, Tomaszk said:

He wouldn't if 99 Utd were managed by Steve Bruce

Original...

your like a dog with a bone.

[TRO]

8 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

You can set your watch to the criticism. More will come with bad pre-season results 

For reference we won every game of pre-season last year...then went on to scrape survival.

Really nicely summed up by Adam.

 

Haha...

Heads you lose tails you lose.....

so ok.....All those mitigating factors in theory will be erased for this coming season.

I sincerely hope you are right and all those things did conspire against him.....well lets see moving forward.

If the bad results continue, what do you want us to say?.....more time, more mitigation?

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by TRO

[DCJonah]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

Haha...

Heads you lose tails you lose.....

so ok.....All those mitigating factors in theory will be erased for this coming season.

I sincerely hope you are right and all those things did conspire against him.....well lets see moving forward.

If the bad results continue, what do you want us to say?.....more time, more mitigation?

 

He's done everything asked of him and more and you still post stuff like that. 

And yet Bruce failed and you couldn't wait to jump to his defence. 

 

[TRO]

9 hours ago, mjmooney said:

I don't think this is given enough emphasis. The spine of the team was ripped out. In particular, the loss of Heaton and the rotation of dodgy keepers that followed meant that the defence never got a chance to form an understanding with their goalie, always a recipe for mistakes. In this respect, I think the enforced break may have been a godsend - Reina and his defenders looked like a far more settled unit after the restart. 

Couple those defence issues with a total lack of goalscorers up front, and it's no surprise we struggled. We'll need to have better squad depth next season. 

Its a popular theory...and I am not saying you are wrong, but,

This season will tell us more.....He shouldn't have to put so many fires out, so we should, providing the recruitment is sound.....have a better season. Dean will have a think tank to turn to and the players will have a season in the Prem under their belts.

It will be interesting to see if all those things that conspired against us as much as folk say, hold water.....we will see.

[Dave-R]

11 hours ago, Jas10 said:

 

 

 

If we cant get Heaton back in goal I want Steer in. Nyland did look much better than previous season but still abit nervous out there at times. Who isnt though when the rest of the team was failing and defence and goal getting peppered with shots, eventually someone makes a mistake.

[vreitti]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

Its a popular theory...and I am not saying you are wrong, but,

This season will tell us more.....He shouldn't have to put so many fires out, so we should, providing the recruitment is sound.....have a better season. Dean will have a think tank to turn to and the players will have a season in the Prem under their belts.

It will be interesting to see if all those things that conspired against us as much as folk say, hold water.....we will see.

Well your stance is certainly clear. It will not matter much how Dean does in this or any other respect, since I'm sure you'll just find something new to hold against him. 

[Tomaszk]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

Haha...

Heads you lose tails you lose.....

so ok.....All those mitigating factors in theory will be erased for this coming season.

I sincerely hope you are right and all those things did conspire against him.....well lets see moving forward.

If the bad results continue, what do you want us to say?.....more time, more mitigation?

Who is "us"? We're all Villa fans.

Most call it like they see it. Others seem to have fanciful ideas that we should instantly be a huge success under Smith despite the fact we've been shite for 10 years. 

It's like you've hopped in a time machine and jumped here direct from 2009, or even better 1993, or better still 1981. Going from winning the league to this I can see why you'd be upset, but we've got better in all areas under Smith! This is a fact.

I've already said I wouldn't have been unhappy to see him replaced once we stayed up. I think he could be a bit short. He's clearly staying though and he's bloody earned a go.

And yet here you are AGAIN trying to remove credit from him. Saying "Ooo well we had a good end to the season, why didn't we have a good whole season?" 

What kind of warped logic is that? How about because we're playing in the Premier League as a promoted side? With 12 new players, half of which can't speak the language and half of which probably got injured and missed half the season anyway.

Is improvement not possible? It has to be that underperformance happened earlier?! Jesus.

I don't know what you want. I don't know what you think is achievable in two years. He won promotion first time round. He stayed up first season back after three years away. What do you want? An FA Cup? 

It can't possibly be better football you want because you defended Bruce losing and drawing against Championship dross for two years. This is why your constant battering of Smith is so absolutely incredible.

Read all the posts in response to your ridiculous comment once again trying to remove credit from anything he does. They're all very fair.

You've decided you don't like him for some reason. That's OK. Own it. Be up front and say you want him out because you miss previous managers. Something they gave you must have been better.

[TRO]

12 hours ago, DCJonah said:

He's done everything asked of him and more and you still post stuff like that. 

And yet Bruce failed and you couldn't wait to jump to his defence. 

 

I jumped to Bruces defence against vile accusations, not his overall management.....at least get it right......Bruce failed to get promotion and I still backed him yes... in his final season he failed.. 3 wins in 11 and I called for him to go....check my posts, if you are not satisfied.

what do you want me to say? just keep backing bad results.

The poster you colluded with ,made a sly remark about if the results were/turned  bad, the criticisms would start.....which was an incendiary comment to incite reaction, from a certain quarter.....not satisfied that some of the doubters have praised Dean for our survival.

some of us who had doubts about Dean, have come out an praised him for getting us over the line......then you get provoking comments like that.

Lets me make myself abundantly clear, I will not back a serial losing manager, full stop......whether he is Steve Bruce, Dean Smith or uncle Tom Cobley.

The very thing you accuse me of with Steve Bruce ( which is false, I defended the man, not the manager)....you do exactly the same with Dean Smith, talk about double standards.

If Dean Smith has a good season moving forward, I will be delighted and reference my doubts about his ability this last season,as WIP

Edited August 11, 2020 by TRO

[MaVilla]

23 hours ago, TRO said:

I can only tell you what I would do.

I would sign a powerful Central Defensive Midfielder, who could orchestrate our game......I really like Luiz since lockdown, but I would use him further forward or in a 2 in a 4-2-3-1......we need more power in midfield.

sure the attack needs most attention......but I think the engine room does too.....that player would also help protect the back 4

yup yup yup, we need an MC who is both a good footballer and a physical presence to compliment Luiz/McGinn.

needs to be someone physical, with some height/stature (as both mcginn & luiz are fairly small), i dont mean 6ft 5 height necessarily , but physical enough to be imposing in our midfield.

I think a trio of Luiz, McGinn and another MC with the above attributes would really help us in that midfield trio.

Possibly a Doucoure or Billing type, but could also be someone like a Santamaria/Mascarell who seems to have very strong defensive stats but also fairly capable on the ball.

The 3rd MC position for me, will be as critical as our winger/forward purchases, having McGinn, Luiz and a high quality 3rd MC with them, would really work wonders for us i think, a big part of our weakness this season was a clear weakness in central midfield (as well as 2-3 other positions ofc).

 

[Dave-R]

9 hours ago, mjmooney said:

I don't think this is given enough emphasis. The spine of the team was ripped out. In particular, the loss of Heaton and the rotation of dodgy keepers that followed meant that the defence never got a chance to form an understanding with their goalie, always a recipe for mistakes. In this respect, I think the enforced break may have been a godsend - Reina and his defenders looked like a far more settled unit after the restart. 

Couple those defence issues with a total lack of goalscorers up front, and it's no surprise we struggled. We'll need to have better squad depth next season. 

I think it's a fair bit more than just that as we seen when football returned, players in midfield started to perform better, giving a much needed rest at times to defenders behind them. Rather than being bombarded all game defenders certainly had time to think better and together themselves when trouble came. Luiz is a fine example of all the balls he was cutting out in midfield that if he hadn't we would of been down without a doubt. Luiz stood strong in his position and it seemed to stir up a couple others like Hourihane who also had some very nice matches and intercepted more than he did before lockdown, alot more. You give your back line as much breathing time as they can free of the ball that when danger arrives they can deal with it more swiftly, smoothly without being hesitant and making mistakes, that's what happened when football cane back.

A working midfield a fully functioning frontline is what we should be aiming for now because without that we will no doubt face another harsh season in the premier fighting at the bottom of the league. We may need to sign a keeper, but we have to make signing a right Winger a very good striker and maybe one or two excellent midfielders priority., without that we may as well start booking our place back in the championship now.

[weedman]

9 minutes ago, TRO said:

I jumped to Bruces defence against vile accusations, not his overall management.....at least get it right......Bruce failed to get promotion and I still backed him yes... in his final season he failed 3 wins in 11 and I called for him to go....check my posts, if you are not satisfied.

what do you want me to say? just keep backing bad results.

The poster ou colluded with ,made a sly remark about if the results were/turned  bad, the criticisms would start.....which was an incendiary comment to incite reaction, from a certain quarter.....not satisfied that some of the doubters have praised Dean for our survival.

some of us who had doubts about Dean, have come out an praised him for getting us over the line......then you get provoking comments like that.

Lets me make myself abundantly clear, I will not back a serial losing manager, full stop......whether he is Steve Bruce, Dean Smith or uncle Tom Cobley.

The very think you accuse me of with Steve Bruce ( which is false, I defended the man, not the manager)....you do exactly the same with Dean Smith, talk about double standards.

If Dean Smith has a good season moving forward, I will be delighted and reference my doubts about his ability this last season.

I mean I don't really want to get involved here, but when your "praising him for getting us over the line" is effectively, "yeah, good job I guess, but why didn't we play like that earlier?" you can surely see why people might think its not entirely sincere?

If you meant it in a sincere way, then perhaps you need to make that a little clearer as things can easily get lost in translation on a forum, maybe just do the praise on its own, with no caveats? 

[DCJonah]

14 minutes ago, TRO said:

I jumped to Bruces defence against vile accusations, not his overall management.....at least get it right......Bruce failed to get promotion and I still backed him yes... in his final season he failed 3 wins in 11 and I called for him to go....check my posts, if you are not satisfied.

what do you want me to say? just keep backing bad results.

The poster ou colluded with ,made a sly remark about if the results were/turned  bad, the criticisms would start.....which was an incendiary comment to incite reaction, from a certain quarter.....not satisfied that some of the doubters have praised Dean for our survival.

some of us who had doubts about Dean, have come out an praised him for getting us over the line......then you get provoking comments like that.

Lets me make myself abundantly clear, I will not back a serial losing manager, full stop......whether he is Steve Bruce, Dean Smith or uncle Tom Cobley.

The very think you accuse me of with Steve Bruce ( which is false, I defended the man, not the manager)....you do exactly the same with Dean Smith, talk about double standards.

If Dean Smith has a good season moving forward, I will be delighted and reference my doubts about his ability this last season.

well that's not true. 

Dean Smith has achieved everything asked of him. Bruce failed and we're lucky smith took us up, as had he not, I think Bruce would caused some long term issues. 

[TRO]

30 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Who is "us"? We're all Villa fans.

Most call it like they see it. Others seem to have fanciful ideas that we should instantly be a huge success under Smith despite the fact we've been shite for 10 years. 

It's like you've hopped in a time machine and jumped here direct from 2009, or even better 1993, or better still 1981. Going from winning the league to this I can see why you'd be upset, but we've got better in all areas under Smith! This is a fact.

I've already said I wouldn't have been unhappy to see him replaced once we stayed up. I think he could be a bit short. He's clearly staying though and he's bloody earned a go.

And yet here you are AGAIN trying to remove credit from him. Saying "Ooo well we had a good end to the season, why didn't we have a good whole season?" 

What kind of warped logic is that? How about because we're playing in the Premier League as a promoted side? With 12 new players, half of which can't speak the language and half of which probably got injured and missed half the season anyway.

Is improvement not possible? It has to be that underperformance happened earlier?! Jesus.

I don't know what you want. I don't know what you think is achievable in two years. He won promotion first time round. He stayed up first season back after three years away. What do you want? An FA Cup? 

It can't possibly be better football you want because you defended Bruce losing and drawing against Championship dross for two years. This is why your constant battering of Smith is so absolutely incredible.

Read all the posts in response to your ridiculous comment once again trying to remove credit from anything he does. They're all very fair.

You've decided you don't like him for some reason. That's OK. Own it. Be up front and say you want him out because you miss previous managers. Something they gave you must have been better.

what a load of old tosh...idle rhetoric.

You just simply read what you want .....I have several references to Praise Dean for keeping us up and praised him for his change of stance since lockdown...... If you can't see some of the poor performances prior to lockdown and try to claim the "told you so " argument you are desperate to pedal, i feel sorry for you.....The season wasn't all ok , no matter how you dress it up.....but the finale was  a great relief.....its called balance.

I have explained many times my stance on Steve Bruce, it is far from the opinion you are desperate to trade with.....and yet still you run with it.....I cannot comment on Dean Smith, without this ridiculous clamour to revert back to Bruce....is it your "get out of jail" card.

You are a really funny guy....I have said umpteen times, I like Dean Smith and yet you still roll out this absurd nonsense, that I don't....I have had my doubts, like you have, but i wanted him to succeed, like my posts have rendered, check them, you might surprise yourself.

You just want me to say, I want Steve Bruce back so you can continue this futile dialogue you are obsessed with......I don't want Steve Bruce back and wanted him gone when he went.....do I think he is an ok guy, yes I do.....do I think he is an ok Manager, yes I do.....do I want him back at VP, no I don't.....I want Dean Smith to progress in to the manager i crave.

do you comprehend?

There.....what more can I say.

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

22 minutes ago, weedman said:

I mean I don't really want to get involved here, but when your "praising him for getting us over the line" is effectively, "yeah, good job I guess, but why didn't we play like that earlier?" you can surely see why people might think its not entirely sincere?

If you meant it in a sincere way, then perhaps you need to make that a little clearer as things can easily get lost in translation on a forum, maybe just do the praise on its own, with no caveats? 

but I think we played different to pre lockdown, surely I am allowed to say it....I don't think its about my sincerity, I thinks its a failure to see, that i see 2 different playing styles that I commented on.....I praised him for delivering survival, what more do they want...seal of the royal charter.

Maybe you're right, but folk interprete things they way they wish, nothing I can do about that......but I'm not about to walk on egg shells for anyone.

We had a poor pre lockdown.....what do you want me say, its was mirage......it was a great relief to stay up, can i not make that distinction.

Folk have their views on why the change in fortunes, happened.....to be honest, I am so grateful our fortunes did change, but I will not insult folk by saying the whole season was like post lockdown.....we would be kidding oursleves.

Edited August 10, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

32 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

yup yup yup, we need an MC who is both a good footballer and a physical presence to compliment Luiz/McGinn.

needs to be someone physical, with some height/stature (as both mcginn & luiz are fairly small), i dont mean 6ft 5 height necessarily , but physical enough to be imposing in our midfield.

I think a trio of Luiz, McGinn and another MC with the above attributes would really help us in that midfield trio.

Possibly a Doucoure or Billing type, but could also be someone like a Santamaria/Mascarell who seems to have very strong defensive stats but also fairly capable on the ball.

The 3rd MC position for me, will be as critical as our winger/forward purchases, having McGinn, Luiz and a high quality 3rd MC with them, would really work wonders for us i think, a big part of our weakness this season was a clear weakness in central midfield (as well as 2-3 other positions ofc).

 

Totally endorse that.