Dean Smith

[weedman]

15 minutes ago, TRO said:

Maybe you are right, but folk interprete things they way they wish, nothing I can do about that......but I'm not about to walk on egg shells for anyone.

We had a poor pre lockdown.....what do you want me say, its was mirage.

Folk have their views on why the change in fortunes, happened.....to be honest, I am so grateful our fortunes did change, but I will not insult folk by saying the whole season was like post lockdown.....we would be kidding oursleves.

OK so it sounds to me that you think we had a poor season and by proxy Smith is doing a poor job? 

That's fine, you can have that opinion, but having that opinion, and then going out of your way to make sure any praise associated with Dean Smith has the "but he was crap pre lockdown" caveat attached to it, means you just can't be annoyed when people accuse you of having an agenda against him.

You clearly do, you think he's done a poor job and anytime someone praises him you have to immediately jump in to remind them of the things he did wrong 

Look I know people bash you with the Steve Bruce thing and I don't agree with that because from what I remember we had similar views on Bruce, some liked to blame him for literally everything wrong with the club with no excuses, and truthfully he did a lot of good for us although by the end the time was right for him to go. You were always more balanced and took the extenuating circumstances into account, which is why I'm always surprised reading your criticism of Smith because the circumstances are different, but there are still mitigating factors to many things that are wrong, as there were with Bruce, you just seem uninterested in them this time, glossing over them with just a passing glance before launching back into another criticism. 

[Stevo985]

I find the argument that a manager changing the way his team plays to improve them is a bad thing because it shows he got it wrong first time round fascinating. I've seen it put forward a few times byt different posters (although I'm sure you can guess a couple of them)

As if managers should just carry on with however they play forever and if it's good then fine and if it's bad then tough luck! You're a bad manager forever.

 

Dean Smith changing how the team plays to grind out results is an overwhelmingly positive thing.

And if it's framed that it meant he was bad beforehand then it honestly makes it even better. Because there aren't many managers who can not only face up to the fact they're not performing, but also turn it around and get the job done. Not many at all.

[TRO]

11 hours ago, weedman said:

OK so it sounds to me that you think we had a poor season and by proxy Smith is doing a poor job? 

That's fine, you can have that opinion, but having that opinion, and then going out of your way to make sure any praise associated with Dean Smith has the "but he was crap pre lockdown" caveat attached to it, means you just can't be annoyed when people accuse you of having an agenda against him.

You clearly do, you think he's done a poor job and anytime someone praises him you have to immediately jump in to remind them of the things he did wrong 

Look I know people bash you with the Steve Bruce thing and I don't agree with that because from what I remember we had similar views on Bruce, some liked to blame him for literally everything wrong with the club with no excuses, and truthfully he did a lot of good for us although by the end the time was right for him to go. You were always more balanced and took the extenuating circumstances into account, which is why I'm always surprised reading your criticism of Smith because the circumstances are different, but there are still mitigating factors to many things that are wrong, as there were with Bruce, you just seem uninterested in them this time, glossing over them with just a passing glance before launching back into another criticism. 

Is that the same as seeing his good bits and also seeing his not so good bits and commenting on them......is that an agenda?

Ok....I accept your opinion, but its not accurate, it just sounds to you......I actually like Dean Smith....I think he is a top man......as a manager he had a contrasting season for me, pre and post lockdown I have a different opinion for either, so its not just single dimensional

I desperately want him to succeed, do I think he will?.....I honestly don't know.....so far, he has delivered on promotion and on Premier League survival, so he is not doing a poor job overall, is his performances varied?, I would have to say yes.....I am hoping he becomes more consistent with his results.

I think my so called criticisms are more observations. I hear the claims of mitigation for this season, I confess, I am not as forgiving as some.....but If we have a good season, I will be the first to say, maybe I was harsh on him and maybe he needed more slack cut from me.....If he fails miserably, which I will be devastated if he does......will those fans that claim the mitigation reflect differently....I have my doubts.....folk can't have their cake and eat it, well I think some think they can.

Sure all our managers deserve support, but surely, if we have doubts ,we can say so, and highlight the reasoning for those doubts.

Edited August 11, 2020 by TRO

[Jas10]

1 hour ago, Dave-R said:

If we cant get Heaton back in goal I want Steer in. Nyland did look much better than previous season but still abit nervous out there at times. Who isnt though when the rest of the team was failing and defence and goal getting peppered with shots, eventually someone makes a mistake.

The only issue I have with Heaton & Steer is their injury record & proneness.

I am sick to death of Nyland, he needs to be offloaded. Can’t really form an opinion on Kalinic but he needs to go as he has been out of favour for so long.

We need a new keeper (again!) that is reliable most of all and not a nervous wreck or susceptible to dropping clangers.

If Heaton stays fit he’s such an asset but there is simply no guarantee of that and we would be left in trouble again should he break down again.

Feel for Steer, has such bad luck & bad injuries. May need to move him on if he keeps struggling but he does deserve a chance after his heroics in getting us up.

A dependable keeper for the long term would be such an asset.

This team needs so much improvement and I hope we go all out to give us the best chance at some kind of success this season...

Starting with a new & superior front 3!

[TRO]

1 hour ago, vreitti said:

Well your stance is certainly clear. It will not matter much how Dean does in this or any other respect, since I'm sure you'll just find something new to hold against him. 

Not so,......oh losing probably, why is he bomb proof against that?

Edited August 10, 2020 by TRO

[Tomaszk]

6 hours ago, TRO said:

Not so,......oh losing probably, why is he bomb proof against that?

He won't be don't worry. I for one expect a lot of improvement.

The season just gone we were a promoted play-off side with 12 new players.

[Tomaszk]

7 hours ago, TRO said:

what a load of old tosh...idle rhetoric.

You just simply read what you want .....I have several references to Praise Dean for keeping us up and praised him for his change of stance since lockdown...... If you can't see some of the poor performances prior to lockdown and try to claim the "told you so " argument you are desperate to pedal, i feel sorry for you.....The season wasn't all ok , no matter how you dress it up.....but the finale was  a great relief.....its called balance.

I have explained many times my stance on Steve Bruce, it is far from the opinion you are desperate to trade with.....and yet still you run with it.....I cannot comment on Dean Smith, without this ridiculous clamour to revert back to Bruce....is it your "get out of jail" card.

You are a really funny guy....I have said umpteen times, I like Dean Smith and yet you still roll out this absurd nonsense, that I don't....I have had my doubts, like you have, but i wanted him to succeed, like my posts have rendered, check them, you might surprise yourself.

You just want me to say, I want Steve Bruce back so you can continue this futile dialogue you are obsessed with......I don't want Steve Bruce back and wanted him gone when he went.....do I think he is an ok guy, yes I do.....do I think he is an ok Manager, yes I do.....do I want him back at VP, no I don't.....I want Dean Smith to progress in to the manager i crave.

do you comprehend?

There.....what more can I say.

 

7 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

It's like you've hopped in a time machine and jumped here direct from 2009, or even better 1993, or better still 1981. Going from winning the league to this I can see why you'd be upset, but we've got better in all areas under Smith! This is a fact.

And yet here you are AGAIN trying to remove credit from him. Saying "Ooo well we had a good end to the season, why didn't we have a good whole season?" 

What kind of warped logic is that? How about because we're playing in the Premier League as a promoted side? With 12 new players, half of which can't speak the language and half of which probably got injured and missed half the season anyway.

I don't know what you want. I don't know what you think is achievable in two years. He won promotion first time round. He stayed up first season back after three years away. What do you want? An FA Cup? 

 

[TRO]

4 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

He won't be don't worry. I for one expect a lot of improvement.

The season just gone we were a promoted play-off side with 12 new players.

so do I, so we agree on something.....and if that is the case and we improve, nothing to worry about.

[TRO]

4 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

He won't be don't worry. I for one expect a lot of improvement.

The season just gone we were a promoted play-off side with 12 new players.

Lets presume you are right and the signing of those 12 players was the reason we got mullered a few times by Man City, Leicester, Southampton and Man U pre lockdown.

Then this season should be a lot better, something to look forward to....thanks.

[DaveAV1]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

Lets presume you are right and the signing of those 12 players was the reason we got mullered a few times by Man City, Leicester, Southampton and Man U pre lockdown.

Then this season should be a lot better, something to look forward to....thanks.

I remember that 2-2 mullering we got at Old Trafford back in December. Shameful display. 

[lexicon]

15 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I find the argument that a manager changing the way his team plays to improve them is a bad thing because it shows he got it wrong first time round fascinating. I've seen it put forward a few times byt different posters (although I'm sure you can guess a couple of them)

As if managers should just carry on with however they play forever and if it's good then fine and if it's bad then tough luck! You're a bad manager forever.

 

Dean Smith changing how the team plays to grind out results is an overwhelmingly positive thing.

And if it's framed that it meant he was bad beforehand then it honestly makes it even better. Because there aren't many managers who can not only face up to the fact they're not performing, but also turn it around and get the job done. Not many at all.

It's from the same moronic school of thought that writes off youngsters if they don't set the world alight aged 17/18 in their first few games. 

[Tomaszk]

1 hour ago, lexicon said:

It's from the same moronic school of thought that writes off youngsters if they don't set the world alight aged 17/18 in their first few games. 

Plenty of scales are broken.

[Zatman]

9 hours ago, TRO said:

Lets presume you are right and the signing of those 12 players was the reason we got mullered a few times by Man City, Leicester, Southampton and Man U pre lockdown.

Then this season should be a lot better, something to look forward to....thanks.

you make it sound like its easy for 12 new signings to blend easy when only a few spoke English. I am sure if Ron Saunders signed 12 new players from all over Europe then he wouldnt make them gel so quickly either

[DCJonah]

10 hours ago, TRO said:

Lets presume you are right and the signing of those 12 players was the reason we got mullered a few times by Man City, Leicester, Southampton and Man U pre lockdown.

Then this season should be a lot better, something to look forward to....thanks.

Why do I get the feeling you don't really mean this. 

[TRO]

9 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

I remember that 2-2 mullering we got at Old Trafford back in December. Shameful display. 

sorry Dave meant the home game but that was post lockdown.

[sheepyvillian]

It's the same old song, just a different dance. 

[DaveAV1]

On 10/08/2020 at 23:46, Stevo985 said:

I find the argument that a manager changing the way his team plays to improve them is a bad thing because it shows he got it wrong first time round fascinating. I've seen it put forward a few times byt different posters (although I'm sure you can guess a couple of them)

As if managers should just carry on with however they play forever and if it's good then fine and if it's bad then tough luck! You're a bad manager forever.

 

Dean Smith changing how the team plays to grind out results is an overwhelmingly positive thing.

And if it's framed that it meant he was bad beforehand then it honestly makes it even better. Because there aren't many managers who can not only face up to the fact they're not performing, but also turn it around and get the job done. Not many at all.

The changes that Dean made during lockdown were almost like a change of manager. He got the equivalent of a new manager bounce and added to that a different focus on our tactics to suit the situation that we were in. It was a remarkable turn around, which he deserves enormous credit for. Thanks Deano! 

[TreeVillan]

18 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

I remember that 2-2 mullering we got at Old Trafford back in December. Shameful display. 

TBF only getting a point against that United side with no Bruno and Greenwood is practically a mullering. 

[ciggiesnbeer]

I am really excited to see how he has us play next season.  

[dubbs]

2 hours ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

I am really excited to see how he has us play next season.  

The same as last season but with the possibility of a few different players.