avfc1982am Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, lexicon said: They're 'fighting' yet they're still doing worse than us, despite having a far more settled squad and not having to start again from more or less scratch last summer. Smith's already got us out of the championship before and with a worse squad than the one we'll be going down with. It's madness to rip up the entire project at this point. I think you can forgive any team and manager if you see effort and fight regardless of talent. I think last years team muller this years on character alone. Also, situations occur during projects whereby you have to admit plans aren't working and rip it up and go back to the drawing board. Also when you really look at things....The project at this point is a youngish group of players that in the main have regressed as the season has wore on as a team. The so called spine of the team and players already on the books have also been downright shocking for the most part. There is nothing to really rip up at this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 minute ago, avfc1982am said: I think you can forgive any team and manager if you see effort and fight regardless of talent. I think last years team muller this years on character alone. Also, situations occur during projects whereby you have to admit plans aren't working and rip it up and go back to the drawing board. Also when you really look at things....The project at this point is a youngish group of players that in the main have regressed as the season has wore on as a team. The so called spine of the team and players already on the books have also been downright shocking for the most part. There is nothing to really rip up at this point I don't agree with this entirely, because I don't see 'lack of effort' as being a massive problem in the squad - certainly not like it was when we went down last time. I think the only two players who hold back on that front are AEG and Hourihane. Effort alone does not cut the mustard anymore. I'm sorry, it just doesn't. Trezeguet runs around like a madman half the time, but what good does it do? You need talent. You can't survive in the prem without it. As for the spine - what's the spine of the team in your opinion? For me, Wesley and Heaton were meant to play a big part in it - yet we lost them both in the same game, barely halfway through the season. Was that Smith's fault? No. Did we have the funds to replace our first choice goalie and striker? No, because we had to spend so much in the summer. There are so many mitigating circumstances this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, lexicon said: Many being unduly harsh on Smith here. One of the worst decisions I've ever seen us face and the players are completely deflated by it and Man Utd are thrust into life by going a goal up. We had the better of the game up until that point, they were sluggish and not at the races. The goal changed everything and when you've got players of that level that suddenly decide to switch on - what the **** are our players supposed to do? What magic words were you expecting him to say at half time that will make our players able to compete, all things equal, with players that are much, much better? When we're **** 2-0 down? Is Neil Taylor suddenly going to have an epiphany that turns him into a world class full back? I'd love to see what you guys think motivational speech is and how you think it suddenly turns bang average players into superstars. I very much doubt that half the people complaining about it have ever had to train or motivate someone in any sort of capacity. I swear that people seem to think that this is a combination of Hollywood and Football **** Manager or something. The motivation I want to see is between matches, where we can start better and look brighter and we **** did that in that game - we were actually creating chances and having shots on goal, looking a lot more fluid in attack than we had done for a while, and then we get the mother of all inexplicable decisions, which was a total gut-punch. It's not just that game though is it. The reality of that bad penalty decision would fire most teams into life to get there own back. Not with our team though, heads drop, Grealish gives up and then the famous half time team talk when most of the players just don't even bother in the second half. The team is underachieving under Smith, proof is there with the first 25 minutes looked good football, they hardly came into our half. As soon as a goal is scored in any match, even if we score the goal our heads drop. Man management? Edited July 10, 2020 by foreveryoung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 minute ago, foreveryoung said: It's not just that game though is it. The reality of that bad penalty decision would fire most teams into life to get there own back. Not with our team though, heads drop, Grealish gives up and then the famous half time team talk when most of the players just don't even bother in the second half. The team is underachieving under Smith, proof is there with the first 25 minutes looked good football, they hardly came into our half. As soon as a goal is scored in any match, even if we score the goal our heads drop. Man management? 'The reality of that bad penalty decision would fire most teams into life to get there (sic) own back' - Based on what? Examples please. 'The team is underachieving under Smith' - Really? Do you think this group of players is much better than where we are? 'As soon as a goal is scored in any match, even if we score the goal our heads drop' - What on earth are you talking about? Goals change games. Man Utd, 5th in the league, came to life after what was a clearly bullshit decision. We'd take any of their players to improve our first team and in an even fight, i.e. on paper, we lose ten times out of ten if both teams perform like they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted July 10, 2020 Visiting Supporter Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I actually don't believe Smith should go. It's just getting frustrating seeing people in this thread saying he couldn't be doing any better. He could be doing better. How much better? Who knows. But he could be doing better than the utter dross he's served up since the restart. Again, this is worse than we've been all season. He himself has performed better with this squad this season. It's our most crucial point of the season and we are worse than ever And I don't agree on the creating chances bit. We barely create any chances. 2 goals in 5 games since the restart isn't a coincidence. It's a complete lack of attacking organisation and ability. But was this not why Smith was brought in, in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted July 10, 2020 Visiting Supporter Share Posted July 10, 2020 2 hours ago, villalad21 said: Just watched his post match interview and openly admitting players heads dropping after conceding the first goal. This isn't acceptable to me. You can't just stop playing when it get's tough. This is a mentality thing and needs to change. Than 2nd goal still is baffling to me. To be a successful team you at the very least has to be able to the basics. We aren't even closing him down. Ball watching. This is non league stuff. Keane stated that you shouldn’t get three touches in the Premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 10, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 10, 2020 21 minutes ago, striker said: But was this not why Smith was brought in, in the first place? Partly, yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: Partly, yes Here's a hacksaw and some concrete, Dean. Build a house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted July 10, 2020 Visiting Supporter Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) Heard Smith stating in post match interview that they wouldn’t have to play a Liverpool or Manchester UTD in the last four games. Thats true but what kind of message is that sending out to the players and fans alike? It’s ok fellas we are not expected to compete with those teams but there are easier games around the corner. To me that is the reason why Villa have had such a rank record against the top six. It’s a defeatist attitude and once the first goal went in last night you could see it written all over the player’s faces and performances with few exceptions. I honestly feel that Smith, Terry and coaching staff should be given their P45s this morning and bring someone in like Houghton or Big Sam who wouldn’t have accepted recent gutless performances by the players including Grealish who isn’t a leader on or off the pitch. However, this will probably roll on to the end of the season with Villa being relegated with no more than a whimper. I have no confidence whatsoever that under Smith Villa will come straight back up again even with the coffers full from the sales of Grealish, McGinn and so on. Edited July 10, 2020 by striker 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubbs Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 I'm wondering if the owners have 2 plans like they did at the end of last season? One of we stay up and one of we go down. I wonder which scenario means we keep Dean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 (edited) Even if we improved massively in the last 4 games, he should still go. We've shown on multiple occasions under Smith that we're liable to collapse and go on these runs where not only do we lose lots, but where we barely even put up a fight. Tbh we could win the last 4 games in a row convincingly and I'd still be unsure about him. Edited July 10, 2020 by Mantis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 minute ago, dubbs said: I'm wondering if the owners have 2 plans like they did at the end of last season? One of we stay up and one of we go down. I wonder which scenario means we keep Dean? They probably do - but I hope that in both cases we keep him. If he keeps us up, he's pulled off a miracle, and if we go down, he's shown that he can get us out of that league already (and with a worse squad). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 I was kinda OK with keeping him if we were relegated depending on the manner of our relegation. But the pathetic way we have performed after the restart has convinced me that we should replace him whatever happens. If we stay up I want us to go for a higher caliber manager. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted July 10, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted July 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, dubbs said: I'm wondering if the owners have 2 plans like they did at the end of last season? One of we stay up and one of we go down. I wonder which scenario means we keep Dean? i do think they'll stick with him, primarily due to the short turnaround time in the summer, during which key players are likely to leave that need replacing and i doubt they'll want to add a new manager to the shopping list. if they were to sack smith, i suspect they'll just give the job to JT, which anyone with a brain knows just isn't the right decision. but the first few results next season will be heavily scrutinised. if we're not in the top 3/4 in october he'll be gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Just now, sne said: I was kinda OK with keeping him if we were relegated depending on the manner of our relegation. But the pathetic way we have performed after the restart has convinced me that we should replace him whatever happens. If we stay up I want us to go for a higher caliber manager. I think that's a very weird position to take. We were far worse before the restart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, dubbs said: I'm wondering if the owners have 2 plans like they did at the end of last season? One of we stay up and one of we go down. I wonder which scenario means we keep Dean? Neither I hope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, lexicon said: I don't agree with this entirely, because I don't see 'lack of effort' as being a massive problem in the squad - certainly not like it was when we went down last time. I think the only two players who hold back on that front are AEG and Hourihane. Effort alone does not cut the mustard anymore. I'm sorry, it just doesn't. Trezeguet runs around like a madman half the time, but what good does it do? You need talent. You can't survive in the prem without it. As for the spine - what's the spine of the team in your opinion? For me, Wesley and Heaton were meant to play a big part in it - yet we lost them both in the same game, barely halfway through the season. Was that Smith's fault? No. Did we have the funds to replace our first choice goalie and striker? No, because we had to spend so much in the summer. There are so many mitigating circumstances this season. I agree that this season is not entirely like the season we went down. There are however similarities. Without getting into the headless chicken discussion I totally agree you need talent but in response to your Norwich comment the point being what fans want ultimately is effort and fight for the shirt. A willingness to run through walls if you like. We haven't been seeing that this season. At least in large parts. Take Luiz last night, the youngest player in the team, a kid trying to gee up the rest of those around him who were all sulking. That should not be happening. With regards to the spine.....Grealish, McGinn, Mings, Hourihane, Ghazi etc.... The players that were instrumental in the promotion and the so called base of the rebuild. Now, what I was driving at is as much as we all talk about poor transfers, several of the senior players have also been very poor. IMO there is no real project or spine in this current format that cannot be ripped up and started again. So the whole "It's madness to rip up the entire project at this point." is a little redundant imo. Which is what I was initially commenting on. It is also quite possible that several of these amongst others will be off anyway. This in itself will leave us needing to make big changes to the squad again and another major overhaul. Nobody is saying there are not mitigating circumstances or that Smith is entirely to blame for this season but from what I see is that we lack as a team not only talent, but direction and leadership. That's the way I see it. I wish it wasn't and I had faith in Smith and his team to sort this mess out but I just don't anymore. I don't see the older players pulling together or indeed any sort of team spirit that gives me faith this will happen anytime soon either. It's just how I see it tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 hour ago, VillaCas said: So in your scenario Smith gets no credit for players Brentford signed but carries the can for the poor Villa signings.....seems fair! He carries the can for us being poorly coached I'm saying he had enough input on the signings for him to take responsibility and not have the blame put on Suso Players not good enough -Suso Players not coached well -Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 I was chuffed when he joined us and still was at the start of this season, optimism I suppose. However, I truly believe that the current squad need a new voice telling them what to do now. I cannot say he has lost the dressing room, I just don’t think he is getting the best out of what he has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 1 minute ago, Nabby said: He carries the can for us being poorly coached I'm saying he had enough input on the signings for him to take responsibility and not have the blame put on Suso Players not good enough -Suso Players not coached well -Terry Team not playing well -Smith Running of the club a shambles -Purslow FTFY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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