TRO Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 2 hours ago, Mark Albrighton said: Do you mean throughout his tenure here? Or do you mean you haven’t seen anyone saying he should go following the Watford result? Because if it’s the former I can assure you there have been people openly stating he should have been sacked. The bad spell in the last third being a recent example. And not just in the match threads where people call for his head and then it’s shrugged off as heat of the moment. People have been posting in here, stating he should be removed. I can offer examples if need be. I'm talking recently and I'm not including people who never wanted him in the first place, because thats just using defeats to justify their original stance. Perhaps they got less criticism, than me questioning, certain things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Mantis said: I'm not basing this on any facts, just more of a vibe, but I feel like there's something in the way Smith manages and sets his teams up that leads many fans (myself included sometimes) to think that he's nowhere near as good as he actually is. I don’t think it’s to do with how he sets the team up or his tactics tbh mate… you also have to consider the difference in level of team or players and options compared to the “top managers” or “top teams”.. Rather, I think it’s because he is probably one of the most “normal” personalities amongst PL managers… he’s understated and level headed, honest and humble… rather than being loud, annoying, petulant and egotistical… He is probably underestimated and underrated… which is fine by me tbh. When I think of the opposite kind of personality, the first name that springs to mind is Mourinho. The so called and self titled “Special One” who has ended up becoming the “Shit One”, the media darling… the kind of guy that has resorted to “mind games” and slating or falling out with pretty much everyone, including his own players, and causing unrest wherever he goes… has he ever criticised himself? Or simply just shifted the blame? “Respect, respect, respect”? Jog on Pep’s ego also seems to be getting ahead of him lately too… no longer a fan… These guys just get the mega bucks to spend too, should make the job less challenging but they still mess up… Too many people want a “personality” or celebrity type… rather than considering who is actually good at the job… Also, everyone seems desperate for the “ready made” option nowadays rather than allowing someone to improve and progress… Edited August 23, 2021 by Jas10 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I've tried to make this point as well myself. I'm sure there were angry Man City fans, I'm not even a Man City fan, and even I thought his lineup, tactics, were bizarre and a mistake, as was the consensus of the general footballing community.. That doesn't mean that Man City fans wanted Pep out, or don't acknowledge his accomplishments, or think he is a bad manager. lol One could make the argument, that a different manager might have won them that final though? For example? Anyway, I think most of us have accepted that Dean was also learning, along with the team etc. He even admits that himself. At board level, it's about getting the balance of stability, unity, morale, results, strategy and finances etc right. A long term Head Coach/Manager is probably crucial to that, and also enhances the image you are trying to put forward of the club. The hiring of upgraded coaches, players etc will obviously help him. He also seems to be a bit more pro active this season, which is a positive. It also depends on the boards long term vision, obviously. I don't want us to be one of those clubs where we are chopping and changing all the time, where it's almost as if you have to start the " connection " again ( One of the reasons why Greaseband leaving was so frustrating, not just the playing side ) However again, it's the balance of ambition vs results vs timescale etc etc If Dean were to get to the pinnacle with Aston Villa, it would be a hell of a love story. Amen....totally agree. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: I've tried to make this point as well myself. I'm sure there were angry Man City fans, I'm not even a Man City fan, and even I thought his lineup, tactics, were bizarre and a mistake, as was the consensus of the general footballing community.. That doesn't mean that Man City fans wanted Pep out, or don't acknowledge his accomplishments, or think he is a bad manager. lol One could make the argument, that a different manager might have won them that final though? For example? Anyway, I think most of us have accepted that Dean was also learning, along with the team etc. He even admits that himself. At board level, it's about getting the balance of stability, unity, morale, results, strategy and finances etc right. A long term Head Coach/Manager is probably crucial to that, and also enhances the image you are trying to put forward of the club. The hiring of upgraded coaches, players etc will obviously help him. He also seems to be a bit more pro active this season, which is a positive. It also depends on the boards long term vision, obviously. I don't want us to be one of those clubs where we are chopping and changing all the time, where it's almost as if you have to start the " connection " again ( One of the reasons why Greaseband leaving was so frustrating, not just the playing side ) However again, it's the balance of ambition vs results vs timescale etc etc If Dean were to get to the pinnacle with Aston Villa, it would be a hell of a love story. Great comment mate but I felt the need to point out that you will be very very surprised by how much “Pep Out” nonsense goes on… Citeh fans are so entitled… it usually happens to the more (consistently) successful clubs out there… I don’t think fans have ever been as demanding, impatient and entitled as now… A good example imo is how Wolves fans turned on Nuno… they were nothing and nowhere without him… Certain fans call for and obsess over loyalty from players and managers, but forget that they should consider doing the same from their side too… very hypocritical… I’ve said it before, but O’Leary was not wrong… although I doubt he could’ve foreseen how bad it would get… 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, andym said: Man Utd equalised within 10 minutes of making that change, with noted big targetman Mason Greenwood scoring. Also Southampton dropped the 3rd most points from a winning position last season. So much for Hassenhuttl's tactical nous. And can you guess who dropped the most? Brighton, managed by your boy Potter. They got done by absolute individual brilliance by Pogba. But his change solidified them defensively on set pieces and that impressed me. Again he identified an issue early and corrected it regardless if they were in front or not. Smith only seem to make early changes when his team is a goal or 2 down, ergo game is already lost. That is not being pro active. He is reactive by nature. To your second line that may be true but I don't watch Southampton every week. I am only commentating on what I saw yesterday. And his game management throughout that game really impressed me. Edited August 23, 2021 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted August 23, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23, 2021 6 hours ago, TRO said: I'm talking recently and I'm not including people who never wanted him in the first place, because thats just using defeats to justify their original stance. Perhaps they got less criticism, than me questioning, certain things. Ok this is useful to know. So now if anyone suggests Dean Smith should be removed from his position, for it to considered to be a legitimate “Smith Out” style post it has to (a) NOT be posted in a match day thread (b) be posted “recently” (c) be posted by a VT member who was originally content with Smith - presumably means cross referencing their posts made when his appointment was announced to see what that person’s stance was. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 Smith has in the past dealt with criticisms that looked like long-term flaws. There used to be a school of thought that he couldn’t organise a defence. Last season he addressed that. There also used to be a view that he was weak on set pieces - we now have a set piece coach, and already look much stronger. Now there’s this complaint about in game management. Once we have players like Bailey, Traore, Watkins coming back from injury and he has real squad depth at his disposal (for the first time since our promotion season) I think he’ll start to prove people wrong on this point as well. There isn’t one static Dean Smith style season after season. He brings in new coaches and new ideas every year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 I see nothing wrong with Saturday's result. Glad Deano managed to rally the troops and get us a good 3pts. Encouraging to hear that he thought the performance/result was only 'okay'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Mark Albrighton said: Ok this is useful to know. So now if anyone suggests Dean Smith should be removed from his position, for it to considered to be a legitimate “Smith Out” style post it has to (a) NOT be posted in a match day thread (b) be posted “recently” (c) be posted by a VT member who was originally content with Smith - presumably means cross referencing their posts made when his appointment was announced to see what that person’s stance was. now you are being silly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted August 23, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, TRO said: now you are being silly. How am I being silly? It has been regularly stated on here that “no one is saying Smith should be sacked!!!!” When it’s proven otherwise it’s then shrugged off for various reasons. “Oh that doesn’t count” style responses. For the record, I don’t massively care that people have said he should be sacked. That’s their opinion. I can just disagree with it. What pisses me off is this constant “No one has been calling for his head” narrative. It is incorrect. I’m fine with people offering criticism of Smith, I’m happier with the constructive criticism, but even the petty stuff, whatever, that’s up to them. And you can absolutely criticise him and not want him sacked, of course you can. But the false suggestion that people haven’t wanted him gone really can undermine any legitimate, nuanced criticism that’s levelled against him. Those who have openly stated they want him gone, I’d expect people to either stand by that or acknowledge they were being rash. Either is fine. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 42 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: I see nothing wrong with Saturday's result. Glad Deano managed to rally the troops and get us a good 3pts. Encouraging to hear that he thought the performance/result was only 'okay'. I actually like the fact he calls it as it is. The performance was very average Saturday. Its what gives me confidence in him improving. He doesn't make excuses like Bruce or just tell us we'll keep trying like Lambert. He knows and he's honest. I imagine he's very respected in the dressing room because of this. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said: How am I being silly? It has been regularly stated on here that “no one is saying Smith should be sacked!!!!” When it’s proven otherwise it’s then shrugged off for various reasons. “Oh that doesn’t count” style responses. For the record, I don’t massively care that people have said he should be sacked. That’s their opinion. I can just disagree with it. What pisses me off is this constant “No one has been calling for his head” narrative. It is incorrect. I’m fine with people offering criticism of Smith, I’m happier with the constructive criticism, but even the petty stuff, whatever, that’s up to them. And you can absolutely criticise him and not want him sacked, of course you can. But the false suggestion that people haven’t wanted him gone really can undermine any legitimate, nuanced criticism that’s levelled against him. Those who have openly stated they want him gone, I’d expect people to either stand by that or acknowledge they were being rash. Either is fine. If you see posts of folk who want him gone, challenge their reasoning, instead of belly aching that is miffs you. challenge the post, not the poster. I can't see any reason for Dean to have to go......so the next time you see a post, who wants him out, make me aware and I will challenge the reasoning for you, ok....there, deal? Edited August 23, 2021 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 9 hours ago, Jas10 said: Apologies if I got too worked up or offended anyone… wasn’t my intention, needed to vent… Just… …can we not criticise or pick out faults or weaknesses (areas for improvement) without suggesting that the manager needs to go or that the job is too big for him? It’s all too common… why does every comment along those lines have to include that addition or tag line? It’s worth keeping in mind and not overlooking the fact that we are constantly working on improving in all areas, we can all see and hear that Dean is not satisfied and wants us to do better. He will do everything he can to take us as far as possible… After yesterday’s result, many people may have got carried away and have raised expectations… but not Dean. He only called it an “ok” performance but a good result… he’s not satisfied, that is cause for encouragement… he is also desperate for success… He is also unhappy and critical when we put in a poor performance or result… He is honest and never makes excuses… again, something that could not be said for many of our previous managers… 100% agree , He never complains about injuries either would be a easy excuse to Hide behind given the injured players and match fitness lacking ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Albrighton Posted August 23, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, TRO said: If you see posts of folk who want him gone, challenge their reasoning, instead of belly aching that is miffs you. challenge the post, not the poster. I can't see any reason for Dean to have to go......so the next time I see a post, who wants him out....I will challenge the reasoning for you, ok....there, deal. I’ll challenge whatever post I like. I have done previously and will continue to do so. In this instance I have challenged the notion put forward that no one has wanted him gone. I’m glad you now appear to accept that people have indeed wanted him gone. Maybe the notion that they haven’t will disappear from this thread but I somewhat doubt it. Edited August 23, 2021 by Mark Albrighton 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 This thread last few pages 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said: I’ll challenge whatever post I like. I have done previously and will continue to do so. In this instance I have challenged the notion put forward that no one has wanted him gone. I’m glad you now appear to accept that people have indeed wanted him gone. Maybe the notion that they haven’t will disappear from this thread but I somewhat doubt it. some never wanted him in the first place.....its opinions. lets put it this way....I haven't seen any posts that stand out to that affect.....criticisms/observations maybe, but not calls for him to go, maybe you are more sensitive to it than me. However, your reaction is predictable. Edited August 23, 2021 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delphinho123 Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 I must admit, I thought he should probably have gone after the Leicester game a couple of seasons back when we lost 4-0. I thought the only way we’d survive was by bringing a new manager in. Luckily, Dean turned it around and has improved us. I think he’ll struggle a bit this season but who’s to know. I hope he absolutely smashes it. I think finishing 11th again should be seen as an achievement having lost Grealish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Vive_La_Villa Posted August 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 23, 2021 There are people wanting him gone. No denying that. But I think the majority feel it would be completely unjustified and he thoroughly deserves to continue as the head coach. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said: There are people wanting him gone. No denying that. But I think the majority feel it would be completely unjustified and he thoroughly deserves to continue as the head coach. Until we lose a game. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said: I must admit, I thought he should probably have gone after the Leicester game a couple of seasons back when we lost 4-0. I thought the only way we’d survive was by bringing a new manager in. Luckily, Dean turned it around and has improved us. I think he’ll struggle a bit this season but who’s to know. I hope he absolutely smashes it. I think finishing 11th again should be seen as an achievement having lost Grealish. I will be happy with the same position, taking account of all the disruption. Like you, I will be keen to see some of the improvements he has planned, he was quick to point out the performance was ok, so I think he clearly see's things to work on....The set piece routine from Austin was clear evidence of that, the fabulous goal from Mings to Ings. Dean, may not have been my choice of manager, but I rarely have a choice, I think Martin O'Neill was the only one ( and that didn't end well) I just go with the club, based on the notion that they know more than me of all the factors involved. I have every reason to believe they got it right with Dean....I hope he is with us for years, because it means Villa will be prospering. Dean for me, has done nothing wrong, in his time with us and the progress has been incremental, sure we have a difference of opinion on midfield, but he is the manager and I just have to get used to it. losing Grealish, Terry and RO'K must be a testing time....I fully support him during this difficult period. I too hope he absolutely smashes it..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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