Dean Smith

[DCJonah]

11 minutes ago, Rightdm00 said:

Exactly. So weird when posters act as if Dean is being given some free pass by club management. 

Yep. Same posters talk about our ambition owners and how they won't settle if Dean doesn't produce and then act like Dean's some competition winner. 

Promoted first time of asking

Survived with a cup final thrown in. 

Highest points total in the top flight for a decade

Yeah, I'm pretty sure he's been heavily evaluated and passed with flying colours. 

They continue to give him lots of money and are allowing him to rebuild the coaching staff. 

 

[Peter Griffin]

35 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

Do you think Conte is easier on his players now than he was at Chelsea?

I doubt it. That doesn't change the fact that playing in Serie A is less demanding than playing in the PL

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

41 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

As people get older they lose strength, pace and mobility. This is why players retire in their 30s and not their 40s. The PL is fast and physically demanding.

I mean, obviously you are correct in a general sense mate, however, I don't feel it is that straightforward anymore, with athletes.

In boxing for example, it depends on how well you've taken care of yourself, how much " punishment " you have taken, injuries, stress, genetics etc.

I'll admit, even i was a bit concerned about Ash in the beginning, however, you can really see that anything he might have lost in athleticism, he has made up for with intelligence and experience.

I was actually quite impressed at how good he was as a defender, as I just look at him, and naturally think he is so small, he would get overrun.

There are some athletes, who in fact, have gotten into the best shape of their lives, at an older age, coupled with the experience, it actually produced their best form.

As a few others have pointed out, his training stats also seem to have him close to the top when it comes to fitness.

Training with Inter, will have benefitted him greatly. Not sure if you watched some of Lukakus interviews about his fitness, nutrition etc at Inter, but apparently, it turned him into a totally different animal, performance wise.

I'm very happy with Ashley as it stands, and whilst he might not be the winger we once remember, you can see that he still has some of that in his locker if needed as well.

Edited August 22, 2021 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Peter Griffin]

23 minutes ago, TRO said:

We have just about always waited until the wheels are wobbling or coming off before deciding on a new manager

I am not looking for Smith to be sacked either. I like him and he is doing well at Villa. But I absolutely agree with that statement

[DCJonah]

6 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I doubt it. That doesn't change the fact that playing in Serie A is less demanding than playing in the PL

So do you think he struggled yesterday? 

Do you think he is our long term LB?

[Vive_La_Villa]

What are the complaints about Young? He came in because our first choice left back isn’t fit yet and did a job. Last season we didn’t have that luxury.  Am I missing something?

[blandy]

34 minutes ago, TRO said:

We have just about always waited until the wheels are wobbling or coming off before deciding on a new manager.....why? why wait until it is so blindingly obvious....by then the team /club would have regressed and major surgery is required to put it back on track.

Look, you’ll maybe remember the last manager thread. I never wanted him, but once he was here, you/we/the club have to give them time. With the last bloke there was an objective set (promotion) and a timescale. Not for one minute did I think he’d get us up, and he didn’t. So the time came for him to go.

With Dean Smith, again there was an objective set, “get us up that first half season, or the next one”. He met that. Then he met the next one of “stay up”. It was tight, but he did it. Then the next one was to consolidate and push towards the Euro places. He did that, too.

So this notion of “we wait too long, til the wheels fall off”, it’s rubbish ( IMO). You have to give people time and a fair crack. When they do what’s asked of them you have to take account of that.

The club has had a disruptive summer. We’ve had Deano isolating because of covid, we’ve had [that player] saga, we’ve had a couple of coaches go, pre season games lost to COVID. More disruption due to trigger happy owners or fans is the last thing needed.

I accept that when looking back at things with the benefit of hindsight and asking “when should we have acted?”, the answer is always “a bit/much sooner than we did”, but in essence presented with the choice of “give a proven successful person time to do their job” versus “no, sack them off at the first hint of pant wetting” I know what I choose every time, whether I personally rate the manager (Smith) or not (Bruce).

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

What are the complaints about Young? He came in because our first choice left back isn’t fit yet and did a job. Last season we didn’t have that luxury.  Am I missing something?

BRING BACK NEIL TAYLOR AND ALAN HUTTON

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

What are the complaints about Young? He came in because our first choice left back isn’t fit yet and did a job. Last season we didn’t have that luxury.  Am I missing something?

You'd think it was something worthy of praise. 

The sign that our squad is becoming stronger. But no. Its something to moan about. 

 

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, blandy said:

Look, you’ll maybe remember the last manager thread. I never wanted him, but once he was here, you/we/the club have to give them time. With the last bloke there was an objective set (promotion) and a timescale. Not for one minute did I think he’d get us up, and he didn’t. So the time came for him to go.

With Dean Smith, again there was an objective set, “get us up that first half season, or the next one”. He met that. Then he met the next one of “stay up”. It was tight, but he did it. Then the next one was to consolidate and push towards the Euro places. He did that, too.

So this notion of “we wait too long, til the wheels fall off”, it’s rubbish ( IMO). You have to give people time and a fair crack. When they do what’s asked of them you have to take account of that.

The club has had a disruptive summer. We’ve had Deano isolating because of covid, we’ve had [that player] saga, we’ve had a couple of coaches go, pre season games lost to COVID. More disruption due to trigger happy owners or fans is the last thing needed.

I accept that when looking back at things with the benefit of hindsight and asking “when should we have acted?”, the answer is always “a bit/much sooner than we did”, but in essence presented with the choice of “give a proven successful person time to do their job” versus “no, sack them off at the first hint of pant wetting” I know what I choose every time, whether I personally rate the manager (Smith) or not (Bruce).

Agree completely. 

And when you have someone you believe in. Someone building something long term, then you don't throw them away the first time you hit a bump. 

[sparrow1988]

23 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I doubt it. That doesn't change the fact that playing in Serie A is less demanding than playing in the PL

Is it really though? Where are the facts to back up this fact?

[Big Salad]

15 minutes ago, blandy said:

Look, you’ll maybe remember the last manager thread. I never wanted him, but once he was here, you/we/the club have to give them time. With the last bloke there was an objective set (promotion) and a timescale. Not for one minute did I think he’d get us up, and he didn’t. So the time came for him to go.

With Dean Smith, again there was an objective set, “get us up that first half season, or the next one”. He met that. Then he met the next one of “stay up”. It was tight, but he did it. Then the next one was to consolidate and push towards the Euro places. He did that, too.

So this notion of “we wait too long, til the wheels fall off”, it’s rubbish ( IMO). You have to give people time and a fair crack. When they do what’s asked of them you have to take account of that.

The club has had a disruptive summer. We’ve had Deano isolating because of covid, we’ve had [that player] saga, we’ve had a couple of coaches go, pre season games lost to COVID. More disruption due to trigger happy owners or fans is the last thing needed.

I accept that when looking back at things with the benefit of hindsight and asking “when should we have acted?”, the answer is always “a bit/much sooner than we did”, but in essence presented with the choice of “give a proven successful person time to do their job” versus “no, sack them off at the first hint of pant wetting” I know what I choose every time, whether I personally rate the manager (Smith) or not (Bruce).

[Vive_La_Villa]

I don’t think we were great yesterday but got the job done. Smith said himself we can be better.

I think we’ll do ok this season but I’m still unsure on us pushing to next level.

Maybe further progression and a good cup will be ok. We have spent a lot of money but we’ve also had to build a whole squad. Currently only 1 players that started yesterday was our players in the playoff final.  That speaks volumes of how far we have come in only 2 seasons.  

[MrSmirch]

Lawro and Souness always tell me that playing shit and winning is the mark of champions.

On the other hand neither of them can point out Egypt on a map.

[Vive_La_Villa]

36 minutes ago, MrSmirch said:

Lawro and Souness always tell me that playing shit and winning is the mark of champions.

On the other hand neither of them can point out Egypt on a map.

On a serious note I think since covid last January we’ve never really looked great but still won games. Which means we are a half decent team. Up to covid we were playing well even when losing.  I think we’ll continue to improve but there’s still something not quite right for me.  Hard to quite tell what it is.

[blandy]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

On a serious note I think since covid last January we’ve never really looked great but still won games. Which means we are a half decent team. Up to covid we were playing well even when losing.  I think we’ll continue to improve but there’s still something not quite right for me.  Hard to quite tell what it is.

The thing that’s not quite right boils down to this, I think:

The really best club sides, when they play well, they win. When they don’t play well they rarely lose. It’s because they have the best players, managers and spirit.

Clubs of lesser talent play well and mostly win, but sometimes lose. When they badly they sometimes get a result, but often lose. That’s us. That’s where we are. We all know this to be so, I think. Deano knows it, too.

it’s his job, with the others, to get better players over time. To improve the ones we have, to engender team spirit and fight and resilience.  That process is an ongoing one, and it’s measured against no absolute scale, but against a relative one of all the other clubs. And then there’s the resources available to him. They can get injured, sold, suspended, sick, get unsettled.

What I like about him is the positive and open way he addresses that challenge. He’s flexible.

The direction has pretty much been all forwards overall, with a couple of ropey spells. All clubs have them. The best ones have fewer. Every season every club has one.

If expectations are grounded in reality, then looking at what he’s done the verdict so far can only be a big thumbs up.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

I am not looking for Smith to be sacked either. I like him and he is doing well at Villa. But I absolutely agree with that statement

The problem is you can't have a grown up debate and mention the good and the suspected not so good.....without a reaction that suggests we want him out.

I would honestly, be very disappointed if it ever comes to that....but I do recognise, we have to improve to realise any ambition we have.

I am ok with the disruptive summer a injuries to key players as mitigation, I am not so ok with the balance of midfield, but I am willing to see how it pans out.

Good win yesterday is a good start and the coming of age of JR is encouraging....best i have seen McGinn for a while and Mings was at the centre of so much....so it was a huge improvement on last week, Dean has much to be accredited for.

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by TRO

[TRO]

3 hours ago, blandy said:

Look, you’ll maybe remember the last manager thread. I never wanted him, but once he was here, you/we/the club have to give them time. With the last bloke there was an objective set (promotion) and a timescale. Not for one minute did I think he’d get us up, and he didn’t. So the time came for him to go.

With Dean Smith, again there was an objective set, “get us up that first half season, or the next one”. He met that. Then he met the next one of “stay up”. It was tight, but he did it. Then the next one was to consolidate and push towards the Euro places. He did that, too.

So this notion of “we wait too long, til the wheels fall off”, it’s rubbish ( IMO). You have to give people time and a fair crack. When they do what’s asked of them you have to take account of that.

The club has had a disruptive summer. We’ve had Deano isolating because of covid, we’ve had [that player] saga, we’ve had a couple of coaches go, pre season games lost to COVID. More disruption due to trigger happy owners or fans is the last thing needed.

I accept that when looking back at things with the benefit of hindsight and asking “when should we have acted?”, the answer is always “a bit/much sooner than we did”, but in essence presented with the choice of “give a proven successful person time to do their job” versus “no, sack them off at the first hint of pant wetting” I know what I choose every time, whether I personally rate the manager (Smith) or not (Bruce).

Pete that is a very apt post.....if I was saying he needs the sack.....and I am most emphatically not....but I am equally saying, he's not bomb proof either.

, just reiterating what we have done in the past....I appreciate everything Dean has done so far, but he is on a journey and the next phase is what I will judge him on too.....do I agree with everything he does, not I don't....but I accept it, because he is the manager or Head Coach.

The highlighted bit is not meant to be " the now" its meant to be the past and sorry, I don't think its rubbish at all, I think it has been pertinent to our demise of the past.

I think you arguing against a narrative that has not been suggested, but it does not detract from the fact that progression has to be managed too.....I am not saying Dean has plateaued and can't rise to the challenge, but that is to be established is my point...yes he does need time to do that, but that time is not limitless either....if we finish midtable, I will be ok with that, If we do it for a few seasons on the bounce, I believe the owners will not be so forgiving.....As students of the past, Stability is a huge thing for most fans, me included, but owners who have clear ambition may not put such a huge store  in to it, yes they will respect it, but ambition will drive them on, just like it trumped Jacks love for AVFC.

I don't like any manager to have to leave, because it means we as a team are struggling.....In our current state, we are not anywhere close to that,but Dean will be judged on our progression, make no mistake about that.....and if we lose too many games, the spotlight will be on.

I am not stating what I want to happen, because I want Dean to make us successful, I am merely stating if he don't, the nostalgia or the loyalty, won't suffice.

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by TRO

[Talldarkandransome]

24 minutes ago, blandy said:

The thing that’s not quite right boils down to this, I think:

The really best club sides, when they play well, they win. When they don’t play well they rarely lose. It’s because they have the best players, managers and spirit.

Clubs of lesser talent play well and mostly win, but sometimes lose. When they badly they sometimes get a result, but often lose. That’s us. That’s where we are. We all know this to be so, I think. Deano knows it, too.

it’s his job, with the others, to get better players over time. To improve the ones we have, to engender team spirit and fight and resilience.  That process is an ongoing one, and it’s measured against no absolute scale, but against a relative one of all the other clubs. And then there’s the resources available to him. They can get injured, sold, suspended, sick, get unsettled.

What I like about him is the positive and open way he addresses that challenge. He’s flexible.

The direction has pretty much been all forwards overall, with a couple of ropey spells. All clubs have them. The best ones have fewer. Every season every club has one.

If expectations are grounded in reality, then looking at what he’s done the verdict so far can only be a big thumbs up.

Reading this and the first thing that came to mind was the Dicks Pussies and Assholes speech from Team America

Overall though I totally agree, we are going in the right direction and will take time

[blandy]

4 minutes ago, Talldarkandransome said:

the first thing that came to mind was the Dicks Pussies and Assholes speech from Team America

That’s much of on topic much of the time