Laughable Chimp Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, bobzy said: I agree against Watford, he didn't do this enough. As I said before, he needs to play further forward than the strange defensive-ish role he's being asked to play. FWIW, I'd expect defensive players to carry the ball forward more regularly as a "progressive carry". They don't get pressured in the same way and can literally move 3 or 4 yards forwards with the ball then pass sideways (which I imagine happens a LOT between Mings and Konsa). In fact, maybe with the exception of wingers (who run with the ball as an actual thing), aren't defensive players the highest for this stat? In the Premier League last season it was Centre backs, Strikers, Midfielders, full backs and then lastly attacking midfielders/wingers in ascending order for the most progressive carries on average. However, fbref doesn't really consider players who carry the ball forward from the defensive 3rd of the pitch as a "progressive carry". Probably to avoid cases like you've described, where defensive players clock in a lot of progressive carries simply because they're in possession of the ball in places where there is no risk of a challenge from an opposing player and can safely move forward. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted August 16, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted August 16, 2021 35 minutes ago, Dante_Lockhart said: Like it apart from the 'Ings' issue, can just not see him not playing him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, lexicon said: He's not a CAM, though - he's played in that position 12 times in his career vs. 215 times as a CM. https://www.transfermarkt.com/john-mcginn/leistungsdaten/spieler/193116/plus/0?saison=ges He's an attacking midfielder, an 8 if you prefer, a 'box to box' midfielder I suppose, but on the attacking end of such. Not a 10 no, as per the graphic. Edited August 16, 2021 by dont_do_it_doug. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 1 hour ago, dont_do_it_doug. said: He's an attacking midfielder, an 8 if you prefer, a 'box to box' midfielder I suppose, but on the attacking end of such. Not a 10 no, as per the graphic. Confusing message ddid - 10 in the pic is an attacking midfielder. 8 is a CM. CMs need to have well-rounded games, be athletic and position themselves well on and off the ball. He's not that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, lexicon said: Confusing message ddid - 10 in the pic is an attacking midfielder. 8 is a CM. CMs need to have well-rounded games, be athletic and position themselves well on and off the ball. He's not that guy. Yes I know, I'm not saying he's a 10. He's an attacking centre mid who functions much better when given license to bomb around and do his thing with the security of a sitting midfielder in behind. Such a thing exists, as evidenced by the 2nd half on Saturday. Or every time he played for us in the Championship, in Smith's "two 8's" formation with Grealish. He is a specialist, he's good at what he does but he shouldn't be asked to do anything other than that. If that doesn't fit the system Smith wants to play then fine, drop him. If it does, then great, he's a good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StanBalaban Posted August 16, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 16, 2021 It's difficult to assess most midfielders in isolation, as their performances are intrinsically linked to the players they're paired with. If McGinn was in a midfield with Kante at Chelsea, his game would instantly look better. Same alongside a Rodri or Fabinho. And before people start telling me that Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool aren't buying him, that's not the point I'm trying to make (although rumours were that Liverpool were interested). Would he get in the West Ham, Leeds, Arsenal or Spurs midfield? Absolutely and they all finished higher than us last season. McGinn is great character, settled at the club, works his bollocks off each game, a leader on the pitch, and you can tell he is trying hard to improve his game day after day. Moreover, he's a damned good footballer. Pair him in a midfield that showcases his energy, the ability he hold the ball, drive forward and chip in with a fair few goals, and we have a huge asset on our hands. And how about some **** appreciation for the goal he scored too! 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 1 minute ago, StanBalaban said: And how about some **** appreciation for the goal he scored too! We don't appreciate goals around here. In fact, we completely disregard them. Get with the programme Balaban. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post StanBalaban Posted August 16, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted August 16, 2021 Just now, dont_do_it_doug. said: We don't appreciate goals around here. In fact, we completely disregard them. Get with the programme Balaban. Leadership, energy, goals for sure, but apart from that.... 1 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 1 hour ago, StanBalaban said: Leadership, energy, goals for sure, but apart from that.... What leadership and energy? McGinn has never been a leader and his lack of energy is one of his biggest issues at the moment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 1 hour ago, StanBalaban said: It's difficult to assess most midfielders in isolation, as their performances are intrinsically linked to the players they're paired with. If McGinn was in a midfield with Kante at Chelsea, his game would instantly look better. Same alongside a Rodri or Fabinho. And before people start telling me that Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool aren't buying him, that's not the point I'm trying to make (although rumours were that Liverpool were interested). Would he get in the West Ham, Leeds, Arsenal or Spurs midfield? Absolutely and they all finished higher than us last season. McGinn is great character, settled at the club, works his bollocks off each game, a leader on the pitch, and you can tell he is trying hard to improve his game day after day. Moreover, he's a damned good footballer. Pair him in a midfield that showcases his energy, the ability he hold the ball, drive forward and chip in with a fair few goals, and we have a huge asset on our hands. And how about some **** appreciation for the goal he scored too! Spot on, sums it up perfectly! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olof82Mellberg4 Posted August 16, 2021 Share Posted August 16, 2021 7 hours ago, StanBalaban said: It's difficult to assess most midfielders in isolation, as their performances are intrinsically linked to the players they're paired with. If McGinn was in a midfield with Kante at Chelsea, his game would instantly look better. Same alongside a Rodri or Fabinho. And before people start telling me that Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool aren't buying him, that's not the point I'm trying to make (although rumours were that Liverpool were interested). Would he get in the West Ham, Leeds, Arsenal or Spurs midfield? Absolutely and they all finished higher than us last season. McGinn is great character, settled at the club, works his bollocks off each game, a leader on the pitch, and you can tell he is trying hard to improve his game day after day. Moreover, he's a damned good footballer. Pair him in a midfield that showcases his energy, the ability he hold the ball, drive forward and chip in with a fair few goals, and we have a huge asset on our hands. And how about some **** appreciation for the goal he scored too! He doesn't get in any of those teams. I don't think there's any midfielder who has less influence on a game in the whole league. He's in the lowest percentiles for total passes made and passes completed - this immediately marks him out as not good enough. He's also really low for pressures and successful pressures so his 'hard work' doesn't really do anything. He gets dispossessed a lot, makes a lot of errors, and has a high rate of miscontrols. Really poor in the air too. He's the number 1 reason that we get dominated in the most important area of the pitch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Silvers Posted August 19, 2021 Share Posted August 19, 2021 Mad, Stark raving mad....... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Other Mat Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Thought he was decent today, really industrious. Hopefully that continues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Better, certainly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCollins29 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Fantastic two games running. Any other opinion is just a pure agenda against him from bitter and twisted 'fans' 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farlz Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Him and Dougie good in that midfield today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 I said this a few times but whenever Grealish were playing for us and because everything would run through Jack it kind of made Mcginn less potent much less. I feel that maybe he's allowed to breathe properly now we got rid of one man army and we will see Mcginn step up like he has done in the past when Grealish were out. I just feel he's allowed to be a player and make more decisions without Jack in that team and felt it were kind of ruining Mcginn in ways. I maybe wrong but that's what I feel I've noticed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Much much better today. He looked sharp his passing was good because he kept it simpler and he didn't lose his runners like against Watford. He looked fitter. The midfield 3 looked like a unit and the way they all covered each other was brilliant. McGinn's drive , Ramsey's skill and movement combined with Doug's Positioning and passing was brilliant to watch. That 40 yard thunder bastard he had in the second half I was wishing for it to dip a moment earlier. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SidSidSidSid Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Has started the season more like the old McGinn we all fell in love with. Very industrious today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 I've been critical in the past. Thought he was very good today. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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