John McGinn

[Delphinho123]

Random fact. McGinn always sits downstairs on the team bus. He’s the only player that does. 

[sne]

9 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

Random fact. McGinn always sits downstairs on the team bus. He’s the only player that does. 

Turkey costume to big for the stairs?

[spiezels]

19 hours ago, Xela said:

Let me stop you there. 

Beale has both been accused of being too chummy with the players as well as falling out with them all!  

 

Amazing how much traction absolute waffle gets on twitter.

 

Dangerous. 

[allani]

I have been / am quite critical of McGinn.  However, in part this is because he has been our main man in midfield for the past couple of seasons and we've become over-reliant on him to the point that he's been playing when his form hasn't been good and / or when he is clearly struggling with the pace of matches.  He's not the type of player who can change the course of a match when we are really struggling (or at least not in the role he has been asked to play).  There's also been a couple of times where he has said that he thinks he has been in terrific form and I've not had quite the same opinion!  However, our midfield challenges have not served him (or Luiz for that matter) very well as they have both been asked to perform roles for which they are not ideally suited.  Personally I would like to see them both here next season (particularly if we do sign another midfielder) as I think that we'd then see them playing (at different times in different matches) roles that better suit their abilities and better cover the weaker elements of their games.  I also think McGinn would benefit immensely from not playing every minute of every game.  Having him play for 60 minutes and then being replaced by JJ for example would mean that we were in a pretty strong position in the middle of the park.  I think the challenge for McGinn will be that JJ's development in the last 6 months in particular has been huge and so if we have two more "holding" central midfielders and then the third CM having a bit more freedom to be a box-to-box type player - then JJ will soon be banging on the door for it to be 60 mins / 30 mins the other way around.  That type of role probably also suits Carney better too and he'll be pushing for more match minutes next season too.  As a club having McGinn, JJ and Carney pushing each other for one starting shirt would be a fantastic position to be in.  Plenty of cover in case of injury, suspension, a drop in form - a good variety of options for the manager in order to respond to different opponents / match situations as they each have slightly different skills / attributes.

So I do want McGinn to be playing less and for us to be less reliant on him - but I really want him to be in a Villa shirt next season (at least) as I think we could see a much better player in a stronger midfield trio.  I think a McGinn playing fewer minutes next season but with a little more freedom within a stronger midfield unit will score more goals, get more assists and play an important role in more goals than the McGinn of the last 18 months or so.  Therefore, unless we get a really ridiculous offer I don't see the need to move him on (unless of course the staff are aware that he would not settle for being anything other than the first name on the team sheet - but I am not aware of anything that would suggest that would be true). 

Edited June 4, 2022 by allani

[sparrow1988]

10 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

Random fact. McGinn always sits downstairs on the team bus. He’s the only player that does. 

Hold on. The team travel to matches on a double decker bus?

[allani]

Just now, sparrow1988 said:

Hold on. The team travel to matches on a double decker bus?

No.  McGinn sits in the luggage compartment.

[VillaParkAvenue]

15 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

Hold on. The team travel to matches on a double decker bus?

Open top, still celebrating the european cup.

[sparrow1988]

Just now, VillaParkAvenue said:

Open top, still celebrating the european cup.

Any excuse for a party with McGinn isn't it

[DaveAV1]

48 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

Hold on. The team travel to matches on a double decker bus?

Only for local derby matches. Bus into town then change. 

[CVByrne]

He'll be excellent next season now we finally have a CDM and he won't have to try cover for Luiz as much as he has this season. His attacking output is excellent as is JJ's. Both could massively improved seasons.

We do need one more 8 though to actually compete with them

[allani]

7 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

He'll be excellent next season now we finally have a CDM and he won't have to try cover for Luiz as much as he has this season. His attacking output is excellent as is JJ's. Both could massively improved seasons.

We do need one more 8 though to actually compete with them

Disagree slightly.  Firstly I think Luiz has tried to cover McGinn just as much as McGinn has tried to cover Luiz (if not more so).  However, we need to sign another CM to start so that McGinn and JJ are competing for the third spot in the middle of the pitch.  I also think that the new CM needs to be slightly more defensive minded so that McGinn and JJ (whichever is playing) has more freedom to "roam" and concentrate on the things that they are good at.  Also means we have better cover if Kamara gets injured, takes longer to get used to the PL.  The more we can ensure that we don't risk having three 8s starting matches the better. 

[CVByrne]

1 hour ago, allani said:

Disagree slightly.  Firstly I think Luiz has tried to cover McGinn just as much as McGinn has tried to cover Luiz (if not more so).  However, we need to sign another CM to start so that McGinn and JJ are competing for the third spot in the middle of the pitch.  I also think that the new CM needs to be slightly more defensive minded so that McGinn and JJ (whichever is playing) has more freedom to "roam" and concentrate on the things that they are good at.  Also means we have better cover if Kamara gets injured, takes longer to get used to the PL.  The more we can ensure that we don't risk having three 8s starting matches the better. 

That doesnt make much sense when Luiz is playing 6 he has the larger defensive responsibility. McGinn has had to help out to make use less open to counter attacks as we lacked a natural 6. This has come at a cost of McGinn's attacking output 

[Tom13]

1 hour ago, CVByrne said:

He'll be excellent next season

Obviously I'd love this to be true, but just can't see it.

[Chicken Field]

I feel like Gerrard wants us playing in a very similar style as Klopp does. If you look at pool fans opinions, they critize their midfields all the time, henderson, Keita in particular. 

Being a midfielder in these formations is not a glamorous job, they are asked to have a ridiculous amount energy and contribute equally in attack and defense, jacks of all traits, master on none. I feel like this is why McGinn is rated so highly, keeps his head down and fights for 90 minutes, does some dirty work and some attacking/possession.  No complaints.

Would be surprised if he wasnt a certain starter next season

[VillaChris]

 

1 hour ago, Chicken Field said:

I feel like Gerrard wants us playing in a very similar style as Klopp does. If you look at pool fans opinions, they critize their midfields all the time, henderson, Keita in particular. 

Being a midfielder in these formations is not a glamorous job, they are asked to have a ridiculous amount energy and contribute equally in attack and defense, jacks of all traits, master on none. I feel like this is why McGinn is rated so highly, keeps his head down and fights for 90 minutes, does some dirty work and some attacking/possession.  No complaints.

Would be surprised if he wasnt a certain starter next season

There are better players out there who can do that.

I'd be interested to what our plan actually was for midfield.

We were in for Bentancur, bid for Bissouma and then signed no one.

Obviously Kamara was the longer term option and that's come off for us and seen as a transfer coup.

So with noises coming out it would seem odd for us now to decide work in midfield is done, not least because Sanson and Luiz will likely be gone by September so we'll be down on numbers for a start compared to this season.

McGinn in that scenario can be moved up to AM role and compete with Ramsey. This season Ramsey peaked nicely around January/Feb but that caught up with him and he really needed a breather for last two months of the season. If you had a relatively fresh McGinn on the bench who could come in and have a strong end to the season then that would be so much better for us.

That's what the big clubs do over a long season anyway.

[Tomaszk]

3 hours ago, Chicken Field said:

I feel like Gerrard wants us playing in a very similar style as Klopp does. If you look at pool fans opinions, they critize their midfields all the time, henderson, Keita in particular. 

Being a midfielder in these formations is not a glamorous job, they are asked to have a ridiculous amount energy and contribute equally in attack and defense, jacks of all traits, master on none. I feel like this is why McGinn is rated so highly, keeps his head down and fights for 90 minutes, does some dirty work and some attacking/possession.  No complaints.

Would be surprised if he wasnt a certain starter next season

Never hides McGinn. Never.

Quite annoying when he's having one of his off days and keeps getting the ball...and losing it.

[allani]

5 hours ago, CVByrne said:

That doesnt make much sense when Luiz is playing 6 he has the larger defensive responsibility. McGinn has had to help out to make use less open to counter attacks as we lacked a natural 6. This has come at a cost of McGinn's attacking output 

I think McGinn lets his man go past him too often in the middle of the pitch and Luiz then has 2 midfielders to try and defend against.  McGinn is great at hustling players in front of them when they have the ball - but he fails to track back so often it is a joke.  That's why I think we need another midfielder who has a more defensive mindset - then it becomes less important if McGinn tracks back and his value of pressing slightly higher up the pitch becomes more important.  However, the key point is that any time we have Luiz and McGinn having to concentrate more of defensive duties than attacking duties then we are in trouble because it isn't a great part of either of their games.

[Zatman]

If McGinn is regularly starting next season it is a failure on management and recruitment 

If he is made captain then I completely give up 

[Delphinho123]

The McGinn situation is quite similar to the Watkins one. Both of them have a part to play but both are saleable assets and we won’t break into the top 6 if they’re consistently starting for us. 

I don’t mind McGinn. He can be outstanding, but he can also be dreadful. We need to be in a place next season where we can rotate him. He’d be excellent coming off the bench after 60 mins to run around like a maniac for the final half hour. So would Ramsey. We need to get to a place where we can do that

But. As mentioned. McGinn is a saleable asset and if you know long term that he isn’t the answer, what do you do? If a bid comes in upwards of £35m for him, you have a decision to make. 

I’ve said it before on several occasions - we’ve been awful at selling players for over a decade, even with NSWE in charge. I’m not saying we should sell McGinn, or Watkins for that matter, but we also need to know when to sell when their value is at its highest. One might argue that we won’t get more for McGinn than we will in this Summer window. 

Ignoring all of the above for a second, he’s a very likeable player. 
 

[Mazrim]

On 04/06/2022 at 10:57, CVByrne said:

He'll be excellent next season now we finally have a CDM and he won't have to try cover for Luiz as much as he has this season. His attacking output is excellent as is JJ's. Both could massively improved seasons.

We do need one more 8 though to actually compete with them

Luiz was overexposed too often as McGinn is as mobile as Ben Nevis. Having Kamara now will help massively but he can't be expected to do it all himself. At least one if not both 8s will have to help out and in that respect McGinn is poor. He just cannot move quick enough. He trots around and it pisses me off.

He can play some incredible balls into attackers along with a lot of rubbish straight opponents, but again, his lack of mobility means his attacking output is lacking too.

Honestly, I think Luiz is a better 8 if he gets a chance there and we also need a better player coming in. Happy for McGinn to have a squad place but no more guaranteed starter. And if a decent offer came in, take it.