wazzap24 Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 3 hours ago, Wainy316 said: From an environmental perspective the only thing we can do is cull humans, which of course we can't. We could just make things perfectly balanced, as all thing should be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: I don't claim to be an expert so I'm sure you're right that there are certain non-animal products that are less environmentally friendly than the animal equivalent. But as far as I can see (and again I'm still learning so I'm genuinely interested to hear the other side of the argument) it's pretty unanimous that a vegan diet/lifestyle in general is far more environmentally friendly than a non-vegan diet. And again, I think we can have that debate without resorting to petty insults like you started off with. Still don't understand what you are complaining about. Where on earth have I insulted you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted December 31, 2018 Moderator Share Posted December 31, 2018 5 hours ago, bickster said: If everyone stopped eating beef tomorrow, no one would need cattle raised for beef and by all accounts, cow farts are killing the planet, so the cows must be slaughtered to stop them farting, can't we just slaughter them in time for tea? Also if I'm eating beef, that's a cow that has been killed, so it won't fart again, so by eating beef, I'm saving the planet surely? It's (apparently) Cow burps that are the bigger deal. Right critter, wrong end. Also, obviously carnivorism has been hugely beneficial for Cow-kind. If the humans didn't eat the cow beast, then there would be far fewer of their bovine kin living on the planet, 'cus the humans wouldn't farm them in their special cow factories that they have. And the flip side is that more vegetablists would mean that the cow factory land could be turned int carbon monoxide eating turnip factories (and carrot and pea and etc. factories). That doesn't apply to fishes, which is why I'll eat them. Yours in virtutarianism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted December 31, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 31, 2018 5 hours ago, Wainy316 said: For everyone that turns vegan there are probably thousands of future meat eaters born. Same with any other green policy. The world population is spiraling out of control and that is the real issue/cause of any issues. I don't agree with that. The negative environmental impact by the population being so large is that the majority of those who have information about their behavior think"I'm only here for a few decades so I'm going to have the best time that I can, and er bacon tastes nice." (You only have to look at some of the comments in this thread.) As developing countries grow they are adopting more and more of a Western diet, high in fat, meat and dairy. Feeding huge swathes of the population that way is unsustainable. Those whose understand this have to fight/campaign/act for change. People who defend fossil fuels as a source of energy are just as ignorant as those who think the planet can sustain whoever is rich enough eating meat & dairy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 6 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said: some high ground vegetarian POV It’s probably that, @KenjiOgiwara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 31, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted December 31, 2018 (edited) 29 minutes ago, a m ole said: It’s probably that, @KenjiOgiwara Yep and the “happy go lucky vegetarian rocket polishers” comment @KenjiOgiwara Edited December 31, 2018 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 (edited) How on earth can you take these as personal insults. Ok just to clarify. I have nothing against nobody here. Except Sam. (Joking buddy). Happy go lucky veggie hipsters is just a description of the people who vent on about veggie revolution from way back. In Oslo it was largely seen as the society's non contributing weirdos who couldn't wait to tell you about their veggie life style or their new longboard, whatever came first. Nothing to do with you haha. And vegetarians have had a tendancy to take the moral high ground on environmental issue thinking they care more than others. That's just how it is. Unfortunately a large percentage of vegetarians do it for animal welfare (which is fine), but know absolutely nothing about the big picture. Reminds me a lot of these Greenpeace morons / facebook environmentalists who think all whaling is bad. Ok tried to edit some of the text here, feels a bit poorly written, but any way don't take it personal. Was never intended that way. I actually admire those who are willing to make a change. Edited December 31, 2018 by KenjiOgiwara 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 31, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted December 31, 2018 No worries bud. Just came across a bit shitty that’s all. Like I said above I’m genuinely interested to hear all sides of the debate. I’m not vegan but it’s something I’m considering so I honestly like to hear as much as possible about the subject. Especially stuff based on actual science like you seemed to be talking about rather than the usual myths from both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted December 31, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted December 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said: And vegetarians have had a tendancy to take the moral high ground on environmental issue thinking they care more than others. If someone has decided to stop contributing to the meat and dairy industry because of the known harmful environmental impacts then surely they do care more than others? As oppose to someone who says, well I know it's bad for the planet, I understand it will make the world a more uninhabitable place but, well f*** it I like crispy bacon and a nice steak and I'm more important than anyone who hasn't been born yet. Edited December 31, 2018 by TheAuthority 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 31, 2018 Share Posted December 31, 2018 7 hours ago, Wainy316 said: From an environmental perspective the only thing we can do is cull humans, which of course we can't. For everyone that turns vegan there are probably thousands of future meat eaters born. Same with any other green policy. The world population is spiraling out of control and that is the real issue/cause of any issues. Yes and no. It seems that when humans get to a certain level of wealth and lifestyle / comfort we stop having children in large numbers. Most western countries do not have enough children to maintain their populations and if it wasn’t for immigration their populations would actually decrease. In developing countries this also happens, as they get richer their population growth also slows and will eventually go backwards as well when they get to a level of comfort/ security. There is going to be a point where the human population of the plant peaks and then starts to go backwards. The tricky part is managing our resources until that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chappy Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Vegan sausage roll released by Greggs tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 I live "on the go". When I was young, I used to run up to 10 miles a day, play cricket, football, all sports. Then when I got to 24, I started working in jobs where I was office based - and it's so quick and easy to eat shit. Then I went self-employed and that meant being on the road, so I put on weight. Left is me now, right is me around 18 months before I went vegetarian. I had to choose better meals, this continued when I went vegan - I didn't trust shop made foods and snacks. I cook fresh every day, soups, salads, hot and cold foods. And it forced me to lose a lot of weight. Being vegan was a choice which turned into something which benefited me big time. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 You look miserable in the after photo ....probably a result of the lack of bacon in your life , either that or you’ve been listening to Radiohead 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 3, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted January 3, 2019 8 hours ago, Dick said: I live "on the go". When I was young, I used to run up to 10 miles a day, play cricket, football, all sports. Then when I got to 24, I started working in jobs where I was office based - and it's so quick and easy to eat shit. Then I went self-employed and that meant being on the road, so I put on weight. Left is me now, right is me around 18 months before I went vegetarian. I had to choose better meals, this continued when I went vegan - I didn't trust shop made foods and snacks. I cook fresh every day, soups, salads, hot and cold foods. And it forced me to lose a lot of weight. Being vegan was a choice which turned into something which benefited me big time. Amazing stuff! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 3, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted January 3, 2019 9 hours ago, Frobisher said: I stopped eating any meat from pigs a couple of years ago after seeing up close how intelligent and inquisitive they were. But I've carried on eating meat from other animals until now. I just stumbled upon a video on Twitter that opened my eyes to the reality of how animals are treated (tortured and slaughtered) due to industrial farming. Really upsetting. I knew it was bad already, of course, but there's nothing like seeing it with your own eyes. Time to end the cognitive dissonance and face up to what I eat, I guess. I've seen a lot of these now and it's really horrendous. Even animals being slaughtered "humanely" is still horrifying. I can't forget that anymore. My gf was flip flopping with being veggie. I showed her "Dominion" the other day (well, the first half an hour until she asked me to turn it off) at her request, and it seems to have genuinely turned her. Weirdly it was seeing what goes into gelatine that seemed to do it for her. Before she said she couldn't be veggie because she loves sweets (it's weird, she's like a child) and couldn't give up gelatine. As a result she just kept eating meat too. But after seeing that it's really put her off. There's a guy I've been watching on YouTube called Earthling Ed. He's a vegan activist but he's one of the most measured and clear vegan speakers I've seen. He's not militant, doesn't use violence, never loses his temper, isn't condescending and is really calm in explaining things when he's talking to people. If anyone's interested in that stuff you should check him out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 McDonald’s releasing a range of vegetarian burgers and wraps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted January 3, 2019 Author VT Supporter Share Posted January 3, 2019 I wish Subway would do the same. Subway used to be my guilty pleasure. But they only have one veggie option (unless you just have a salad sandwich) and it's not very nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Never had a subway, the smell makes me feel sick. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted January 3, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted January 3, 2019 1 hour ago, Genie said: Never had a subway, the smell makes me feel sick. Same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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