Stevo985 Posted November 6, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted November 6, 2018 33 minutes ago, Rodders said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-46111505 And that's why veganism will never take off, too many nutters. Minority maybe, but permanently plays host to the PETA type maniacs. Shit like this always wants me to order non-stop steak for ever, even though I do want to cut down on meat, a bit. Nah. There are nutters everywhere. I bet there are more meat eaters who want to kill Vegans than the other way round. At least vegans have a motive. Oh and I don't think Peta are bad. They sully their name a bit by the odd extreme stunt or bit of publicity. But in general they're a good organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 6, 2018 Moderator Share Posted November 6, 2018 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: The "would Bicks eat this meatless dish?" thread never fails to disappoint You should have seen the pork enhanced vegetable stir fry I just ate 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rodders said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-46111505 And that's why veganism will never take off, too many nutters. Minority maybe, but permanently plays host to the PETA type maniacs. Shit like this always wants me to order non-stop steak for ever, even though I do want to cut down on meat, a bit. I'll probably get lumped in with the group of nutters, but I kind of sympathise with them. It's not something I'd do, but I can see what drives them to it. I generally try to keep my opinions to myself outside of scenarios in which other people have engaged; I think before this topic was posted, I probably mentioned being vegan once or twice in the last few years on here. In person, I only talk about it to other vegan folk, or people who see what I'm eating and bring it up first. Generally I bite my tongue even when the topic comes up, and only talk about it if I'm asked, and I'll usually talk in general terms and back away from talking about my own views unless I'm really pressed on it, because it's almost impossible to talk about ethical choices without sounding like a sanctimonious dickhead, and nobody likes that guy. But when you have a strongly held belief that something is wrong, it's really, really hard to stay quiet and ignore other people making what you think is a bad choice, both ethically and environmentally. It becomes vastly more annoying when people will make a joke of it to bait you, sometimes in good spirits, sometimes not. Take something you think is just flat out, ethically wrong, then think of someone doing it in front of you, and thinking it's all a big joke. Every **** day. I'm not going to start throwing red paint over people or smashing up butcher shops, but I've got a certain amount of sympathy for people who feel frustrated enough to be a bit more aggressive, even if I don't agree with them. At least partly for the point you brought up - it just isn't going to win people over. Edited November 6, 2018 by Davkaus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 38 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I'll probably get lumped in with the group of nutters, but I kind of sympathise with them. It's not something I'd do, but I can see what drives them to it. I generally try to keep my opinions to myself outside of scenarios in which other people have engaged; I think before this topic was posted, I probably mentioned being vegan once or twice in the last few years on here. In person, I only talk about it to other vegan folk, or people who see what I'm eating and bring it up first. Generally I bite my tongue even when the topic comes up, and only talk about it if I'm asked, and I'll usually talk in general terms and back away from talking about my own views unless I'm really pressed on it, because it's almost impossible to talk about ethical choices without sounding like a sanctimonious dickhead, and nobody likes that guy. But when you have a strongly held belief that something is wrong, it's really, really hard to stay quiet and ignore other people making what you think is a bad choice, both ethically and environmentally. It becomes vastly more annoying when people will make a joke of it to bait you, sometimes in good spirits, sometimes not. Take something you think is just flat out, ethically wrong, then think of someone doing it in front of you, and thinking it's all a big joke. Every **** day. I'm not going to start throwing red paint over people or smashing up butcher shops, but I've got a certain amount of sympathy for people who feel frustrated enough to be a bit more aggressive, even if I don't agree with them. At least partly for the point you brought up - it just isn't going to win people over. I appreciate it's difficult with the emotional held beliefs. However, no-one I ever know has changed their mind through being insulted or having murderer accusations sent their way. And the inability to accept not everyone's minds will be changed is not destructive. Most people develop their own ethics, ( excluding those who accept the religious cult they're born into unquestioningly ) and moral choices and priorities differently. I say this not to provocative, but I fundamentally do not believe there is philosophical issue with killing animals. The uncomfortable issue is that those holding this position, perhaps yourself, believe that I am a murderer or committing ethical evil acts. Which I obviously don't feel I am, otherwise I would change my habits. Maybe growing up on a farm has impacted that decision, but I see people caring for animals before the slaughterhouse and it is a way of life - that has been like that for.. well ever since agriculture I suppose. Not that that argument of because of the past so it must always be is unimpeachable, but veganism / vegetarianism is a very new thing. Half of the world wouldn't even understand the premise behind it. I do think there is a serious problem with the food industry and the practices are horrendous, and environmentally rubbish, but I cannot connect those arguments with a wholesale rejection of any use of any animal product, it always seems extreme to me. I do want to eat less meat, or better sources of meat at any rate, i.e. small farms rather than supermarket stuff but it isn't easy. Maybe I'll get to a much reduced meat eating life in 2, 3, 5 , 15 years or whatever, but in the meantime, those who operate with fundamental certainty that they have the right lifestyle and those who don't are murderers, the urge to tell those people to **** off is quite strong. It's a defensive reaction against that implied or outright stated sense that I and many others are in someway evil for being a part of a food system that has been functioning in this way for millennia. I am all for serious change in meat and dairy industries, and the environmental argument is the one that currently weighs on me most when I think about it, but I am also a creature of longstanding habits for whom food is a pleasure. Veganism seems like a radical change, and the capacity to make such changes seems to me a very personal one and radicals who are insisting upon adoption of a very strict adherence to these rules are always going to meet with resistance. In that sense the quasi-dogmatic religious element always gets my back up. That's all a long winded way of saying that people like me who aren't immune from the prospect from change are still never going to respond well to aggression. And I know it's petty to say "Right, I'm off to the steakhouse" but people rarely take kindly to being told they must do this or that. Give me awesome recipes, and an acceptance I'll never share the exact same codes, and I very well may end up more quickly end up eating more ethically than I would have done. Also your post does remind me that all the vegans I know personally are respectful people, so I feel I ought to add that qualifier to my initial post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 2 hours ago, Rodders said: I do think there is a serious problem with the food industry and the practices are horrendous, and environmentally rubbish, but I cannot connect those arguments with a wholesale rejection of any use of any animal product... I am all for serious change in meat and dairy industries, and the environmental argument is the one that currently weighs on me most when I think about it, but I am also a creature of longstanding habits for whom food is a pleasure. There's many people who have thought long and hard about this and really know what they are talking about and who have similar views to these. Joanna Blythman and Tim Lang, for example. Eat less meat but better meat, and more plants. And stay away from processed food, chain restaurants, and places that churn out foood based on the food service industry, where possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 6, 2018 Share Posted November 6, 2018 On 05/11/2018 at 13:15, Stevo985 said: It definitely requires me to check ahead for where we're eating to make sure they have a good choice. Just wondering if you ever ask if they can do something veggie even if it's not on the menu. It won't always be possible, depending on how busy they are, but a decent chef will be able to do something and will probably be happy to do so, if it doesn't disrupt the rest of the stuff they have to do. Probably 8 on a Saturday evening is not the ideal time to ask, but at quieter times, worth at least asking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 7, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2018 8 hours ago, peterms said: Just wondering if you ever ask if they can do something veggie even if it's not on the menu. It won't always be possible, depending on how busy they are, but a decent chef will be able to do something and will probably be happy to do so, if it doesn't disrupt the rest of the stuff they have to do. Probably 8 on a Saturday evening is not the ideal time to ask, but at quieter times, worth at least asking? Oh yeah I definitely would. I guess it's just nicer to have a selection to choose from already. But yeah if it was, say, a meal someone else had arranged and there was nothing veggie on the menu I definitely would ask. And I've already done that at curry houses and they're always happy to do it. I've also been for a couple of curries with people from work, one of whom is vegan, and they're always happy to accommodate her too. There seems to be seldom anything Vegan on a curry house menu, but they'll always just ask her what she wants and let her know if they can make it vegan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, peterms said: Just wondering if you ever ask if they can do something veggie even if it's not on the menu. Edited November 7, 2018 by tonyh29 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 7, 2018 Moderator Share Posted November 7, 2018 Does not compute Quote Vegan Chicken Tikka Masala Print Prep time 10 mins Cook time 45 mins Total time 55 mins Author: Ordinary Vegan Recipe type: Main Cuisine: Indian Serves: 6 Ingredients Vegan Chicken Coating (or tofu) 1 12 ounce package of Beyond Chicken Strips, strips cut in half 1 teaspoon ground cumin 1 teaspoon ground coriander 2 teaspoons ground turmeric 1 teaspoon salt ½ teaspoon ground black pepper 2 garlic cloves, chopped 2 teaspoons ginger, finely chopped 1½ cups of plain almond or soy yogurt Stew 1 tablespoon of extra-virgin olive oil 1 small onion, chopped 6 cardamom pods, crushed ½ teaspoon crushed red pepper flakes ¼ cup tomato paste 3 garlic cloves, chopped 2 teaspoons ginger finely chopped 2 teaspoons ground turmeric 1 teaspoon ground coriander 1 teaspoon ground cumin 1 28-ounce can crushed tomatoes 2 cups of light coconut milk 1 teaspoon red wine vinegar 1½ tablespoons maple syrup ¾ cup fresh chopped cilantro serving 2 cups cooked steamed rice for serving Instructions Vegan chicken Combine 2 garlic cloves, 2 teaspoons ginger, 2 teaspoons turmeric, 1 teaspoon ground coriander, 1 teaspoon ground cumin and salt in a medium bowl. Whisk in yogurt. Add the vegan chicken and turn to coat. Cover and chill 4 hours or more. Stew Heat oil in a large heavy non-stick pot over medium heat. Add onion, tomato paste, cardomom and chilies and cook, until tomato paste has darkened and onion is soft, about 5 minutes. Stirring frequently. Add 2 teaspoons turmeric, 2 teaspoon of ground coriander and 1 teaspoon ground cumin. Cook another 3 minutes, stirring frequently. Add tomatoes and bring to a boil. Reduce heat and simmer, stirring often, for about 10 minutes or until sauce thickens. Add coconut milk, maple syrup, red wine vinegar and chopped cilantro. Simmer, stirring occasionally, for 30 minutes. Meanwhile, preheat broiler. Place the oven rack between the middle and the top. Line a rimmed baking sheet with foil and arrange chicken in a single layer. Place on rack. Broil until vegan chicken gets browned, about 5-7 minutes, being careful not to overcook. Add chicken to sauce and simmer for another 5-8 minutes. Serve with rice and fresh cilantro. Link I'd probably eat this if they took the irritating chicken bit out of the title. Though I'd draw the line at another recipe I saw made with vomit balls (Chick Peas) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 7, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2018 A chickpea massala is **** delicious. And I posted earlier that I had a veggie chicken tikka massala a couple of weeks ago (they didn't call it that, it was a Soya Tikka Massala, but it was clearly meant as a chicken substitute). It was delicious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 3 hours ago, Stevo985 said: There seems to be seldom anything Vegan on a curry house menu, but they'll always just ask her what she wants and let her know if they can make it vegan. That surprises me, I've always found Indian to be by far the easiest to get a decent vegan meal - there's usually at least a choice of chana masala, dahl, or saag aloo for example. Ghee is sometimes an issue, but it's quite uncommon for them to use it in dahl from what I've noticed, and they're usually happy to use vegetable oil instead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 7, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Davkaus said: That surprises me, I've always found Indian to be by far the easiest to get a decent vegan meal - there's usually at least a choice of chana masala, dahl, or saag aloo for example. Ghee is sometimes an issue, but it's quite uncommon for them to use it in dahl from what I've noticed, and they're usually happy to use vegetable oil instead. I'm sure you're right, what I meant was it's seldom labelled as vegan. So you have to have that discussion with the waiter and they tell you what you can and can't have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 (edited) It's ghee that falls foul for you vegans in Indian food. Lovely clarified butter loveliness - Mmmmm. If Hindus made it? The cow should have been treated with respect Chana masala (chickpeas in sauce ) is exquisite btw, expecially served with puri (fried bread). Edited November 7, 2018 by Xann 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 7, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2018 Yep. Chana Masala is incredible. Speaking of Chickpeas, did anyone see Vegan week in the Bakeoff this year? They made meringues by whipping the drained juice from cans of chickpeas. Bizarre, but looked amazing. Who on earth ever came up with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted November 7, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2018 49 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Yep. Chana Masala is incredible. Speaking of Chickpeas, did anyone see Vegan week in the Bakeoff this year? They made meringues by whipping the drained juice from cans of chickpeas. Bizarre, but looked amazing. Who on earth ever came up with that? I always wonder how people ever came up with things such as whisking eggs in the first place, especially before electric whisks which takes a shit load of effort to get anywhere. But with chickpea juice people had been actively looking for egg substitutes for whisking and that was a pretty good match in terms of the amount of protein etc., I believe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted November 7, 2018 Author VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 minute ago, fightoffyour said: I always wonder how people ever came up with things such as whisking eggs in the first place Or who was the person to decide they would eat a bird's period in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted November 7, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted November 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Or who was the person to decide they would eat a bird's period in the first place? Hadn't crossed my mind. I suppose they were just pretty hungry though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted November 7, 2018 Moderator Share Posted November 7, 2018 34 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Or who was the person to decide they would eat a bird's period in the first place? Probably the first person to drop an egg in the fire by accident Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 7, 2018 Moderator Share Posted November 7, 2018 40 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Or who was the person to decide they would eat a bird's period in the first place? The first person to discover bacon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 7, 2018 Share Posted November 7, 2018 1 hour ago, Xann said: Chana masala (chickpeas in sauce ) is exquisite btw, expecially served with puri (fried bread). And accompanied by tamarind sauce, mint/coriander sauce, and yogurt or raita...perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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