chrisp65 Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 I have a sneaking suspicion that Netanyahu is not a deeply religious man. I had the same doubts over Trump. Some men seek absolute power because buried somewhere deep inside them they are afraid of women. Some men are just wired to be greedy. It’s most obvious in religions because they are an easy way to claim absolute power and accumulate whatever it is that’s valued. Gold, land, books. Take away religion, and tiny dick psychos will just have to work a little harder to pin it on politics or genetics or whatever. I’d be fairly confident the Romans didn’t conquer the known world because ‘religion’. I’d be fairly confident North America wasn’t cleared of native Americans because religion. Same for the American civil war, Norman conquest, Edward I’s castle building in Wales, Anglo Saxon expansion through Wessex and Mercia and a million other examples up, down and around the world. Campaign to extinguish all religion by all means, but don’t sell it on the promise of consequential peace tolerance and equity. Meanwhile, if anyone wants to join me in the First Presleytarian Church of the Divine, we are currently franchising a number of start up reverends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 18, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 18, 2021 5 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I’d be fairly confident the Romans didn’t conquer the known world because ‘religion’. I’d be fairly confident North America wasn’t cleared of native Americans because religion. Same for the American civil war, Norman conquest, Edward I’s castle building in Wales, Anglo Saxon expansion through Wessex and Mercia and a million other examples up, down and around the world. What about the Crusades? and what about the endless conflicts between Sunni and Shia? or the Taliban or Al-Quaida? Or ISIS/Islamic state? As a non-religionist I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but while I agree that being religious in no way makes people all fighty-like, I also don't think you can say that religion hasn't been the root cause of an awful, awful lot of conflict and violence. because one of the kind of key aspects of some religion is that (as I understand it) religionists believe in their God/Gods and view those that do not as either in need of "education" to teach them to see that their imaginary Sky Fairy is who shall be followed and his rules adhered to, or worse that they need to be killed or punished for not following the one true imaginary Sky Fairy, or for denying the existence or importance of the imaginary Sky fairy. As much as we like we can point to "well it's not the Sky fairy doing all that, it's the humans who believe in the Sky fairy, and so it's essentially a human thing, not a God thing. So religion is a human construct borne out of a desire to understand what is not understood and then to impose this new explanation on the order of things - "You were chopping down a tree to make firewood and then the Sky went dark - The Gods are signalling that chopping down trees to make firewood is bad, you must be punished" and so tree chopping is blasphemy and therefore anyone chopping down trees is a sinner and people must be told not to chop trees and that is the law of the Gods.... because someone didn't understand eclipses and what they are and what causes them. God gave us this land, it is ours. If you come on to it we will punish you in Gods honour. No, it's ours. God gave it to us,. Your God doesn't exist, ours does. No. ours does yours doesn't. Fight, kefuffle.... 1000 years later, yeah. Still fighting. Lads, Lads, you're both right - you're right that his God doesn't exist, he's right that yours doesn't. Put down the rockets. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 Oh I’m not claiming people don’t fight in the name of religion, they clearly do. I’m claiming that if there was no religion, they’d still fight. Just in the name of something else. The tax some guy has imposed on his part of the Silk Road, or who gets first dibs on the Panama Canal, or who gets Gibraltar, or mining rights on Mars. To try and drag it back to some sort of relevance to the thread, removing religion will not create an outburst of brotherly love and sharing of land around the Golan Heights, West Bank, Gaza Strip and Jerusalem. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 I’m an atheist but I also don’t believe religion causes people to fight. In fact, from what I understand, they usually instruct the opposite but people fight anyway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted May 18, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 18, 2021 59 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I’m not claiming people don’t fight in the name of religion, they clearly do. I’m claiming that if there was no religion, they’d still fight. It's just that one of the reasons to fight would be removed. And people do need a reason. it's not that they want to fight, and then pick from a list of reasons, so were gonna fight anyway. It's that in some cases this particular factor is the cause and reason for the fight. In terms of Israel and Palestine, the Primary reason (now) is not religion, or religious hatred, though it clearly plays a part. Other conflicts, more so or less so. *also religion can be a reason not to fight, which is nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 1 minute ago, blandy said: It's just that one of the reasons to fight would be removed. And people do need a reason. it's not that they want to fight, and then pick from a list of reasons, so were gonna fight anyway. It's that in some cases this particular factor is the cause and reason for the fight. In terms of Israel and Palestine, the Primary reason (now) is not religion, or religious hatred, though it clearly plays a part. Other conflicts, more so or less so. *also religion can be a reason not to fight, which is nice. Surely the reason is not religion because there are plenty of examples where people of those two religions live side by side and do not fight. In fact that is common in many places. Clearly then it follows that is not the religion that causes the fight but something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 I think maybe we’ve dragged it off topic and in to a closed loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 Back on topic, the ratio on this reply is something to behold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 Joe Biden approves fresh weapon sales to Israel just prior to ongoing assault. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/05/17/power-up-biden-administration-approves-735-million-weapons-sale-israel-raising-red-flags-some-house-democrats/ " The Biden administration has approved the sale of $735 million in precision-guided weapons to Israel, raising red flags for some House Democrats who are part of the shifting debate over the U.S. government’s support for the Israeli government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu." There is also a correction posted to this article, which was released yesterday. Revealing. "Correction: A previous version of this article stated that the United States supported an immediate cease-fire between Israel and Hamas. The White House initially said it would only support a cease-fire if both parties to the conflict choose to pursue one; President Biden urged a cease-fire late in the day on Monday. This article has been corrected." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 and... the US is still working hard at the security council, with yet another effort at a meagre statement squashed. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 18, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 18, 2021 Yeah. **** Israel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 Israel has also bombed and destroyed the only Covid-test analyzing lab in Gaza. Just like with everything else they destroy they knew exactly what they where bombing. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 18, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, sne said: Israel has also bombed and destroyed the only Covid-test analyzing lab in Gaza. Just like with everything else they destroy they knew exactly what they where bombing. There was a Hamas base in it. Honest. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Chindie said: There was a Hamas base in it. Honest. and it's just a little spring cleaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted May 18, 2021 Share Posted May 18, 2021 (edited) 23 hours ago, bickster said: I'd strongly dispute that bit. The Nazis were steeped in mysticism and mythology. I don't know what I'd describe them as but atheist really ain't a word I'd use not was Adolph an atheist as has been claimed for decades. Hitler and the Nazis have been used as an example of “look bad atheists” since the war ended usually by people with an interest in religion. They were much closer to religious than not. Didn’t the nazi belt buckles literally say gott mit uns? Edited May 18, 2021 by KenjiOgiwara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted May 18, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 18, 2021 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Absolutely horrifying clip 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 Obviously I always hope for them to fail but it would have been fun (or sickening) to see the Israeli team take a knee and oppose racism and stand for human rights had they qualified for the Euro's this summer while the fans in the stadiums booed them for 90 minutes. Absolutely vile country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 1 hour ago, sne said: Absolutely vile country. Ex-President Trump absolutely loves the place and so does his silly little political party. Is a Trump thumbs up going help your cause long term or hinder it ? He is such a "Character" it could possibly flip some of the US population to get behind the "Other team". I don't know who is right or wrong in the conflict but who aligns with who and why is always interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted May 19, 2021 Share Posted May 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Keyblade said: Absolutely horrifying clip Thats is as you say. Absolutely horrifying. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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