Israel, Palestine and Iran

[KenjiOgiwara]

7 hours ago, Keyblade said:

Absolutely horrifying clip

 

 

 

It makes you want to say something obscene doesn't it.

But they have probably cherrypicked some morons here.

[El Zen]

2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

 but every person who wants Palestine obliterated is Jewish? 

In many countries, the Evangelical far right are also massive Israel fans. 

Edited May 19, 2021 by El Zen

[villakram]

Pogba and Diallo had a Palestine flag in hand on pitch after the match last night. Upgraded from complete prat to prat in my estimation.

In my neck of the woods. Biden showed his face around here yesterday on a visit to Ford, promoting their new electric F150. This of course involved going to Dearborn, home to the highest density of FBI agents in the US during the "he tried to kill my father" Bush years. Lots of protests, which Biden avoided like the plague, of course. Stayed well clear of the media too. Yay transparency.

[chrisp65]

It’ll be interesting to see if there are any repercussions for Man Utd or individuals if the footy authorities decide that was a political statement.

I’d be fairly sure there will be people lobbying to say that can’t be allowed to happen again.

I know it wasn’t ‘in game’ but still.

[sne]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

It’ll be interesting to see if there are any repercussions for Man Utd or individuals if the footy authorities decide that was a political statement.

I’d be fairly sure there will be people lobbying to say that can’t be allowed to happen again.

I know it wasn’t ‘in game’ but still.

Fofana and Choudhury did if when Leicester won the FA Cup

Good lads.

[Chindie]

2 hours ago, villakram said:

Pogba and Diallo had a Palestine flag in hand on pitch after the match last night. Upgraded from complete prat to prat in my estimation.

 

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

It’ll be interesting to see if there are any repercussions for Man Utd or individuals if the footy authorities decide that was a political statement.

I’d be fairly sure there will be people lobbying to say that can’t be allowed to happen again.

I know it wasn’t ‘in game’ but still.

 

23 minutes ago, sne said:

Fofana and Choudhury did if when Leicester won the FA Cup

Good lads.

Standard.

[Glarmorgan]

7 hours ago, darrenm said:

Nope. Not at all. Some of the ultra Zionists want everyone to think that. But it's back to the old left v right argument making its way into Judaism too.

Left Jews support the Palestinians' right to their own land. Even the ones who agree with Zionism believe in a 2 state solution.

The right which includes the current administration of Israel, Natanyahu, Likkud, The British Board of Deputies don't support Palestine's right to exist.

 

 

I tend not to get into these discussion (as I find it hard to stand to the heat). Just wanted to say this is not accurate. 

If we'll look into the Israeli parliament - there are currently 10 Arab PMs (out of 120). They had 15, but the Arab party broke down and they lost some strength...

 

When you get to the Jewish parties - there is only one party which I can say is racist, and it consists of 6 PMs which were heavily backed by Netnayahu. These are the only ones who consider the Palestinians and the Israeli Arabs as inferior.

The rest of the right wing parties (Bennet, New Hope, Likkud) think that a two state solution is not a viable solution and their approach to this changes. Bennet, for instance, supports the annexation of the West Bank and the assimilation of the Palestinians in Israel. Hence, one big happy country. The Likkud is more into stalling, avoiding dealing with this issue. Mainly aiming towards a self governing Palestinian regime in the West Bank, as it is now.

The rest of the parties sees the two state solution as a viable one. The discussion is when and how. The fact that there's a different rulers in the West Bank and Gaza makes this more complicated, since there are practically two Palestinian entities at the moment. I think this suits most of the parties now.

1. Hamas draws its power from the conflict in Israel. They wish to sustain it in some level. The rockets launched at Jerusalem  last week are a good example. I don't think Hamas foresaw what's coming, as in most cases Israel retaliates quite softly to rocket attacks.

2. The Palestinian Authority is weak and the chance they'll lose to Hamas in General elections is quite high. The Palestinian Authority relies and cooperates with Israel to maintain relatively peaceful lives in the West Bank, as the Palestinian economy is dependent on Israel - mayn Palestinians work here, they export their merchandise into Israel and the Israeli-Arabs go to their stores to enjoy the cheaper prices.  So they say harsh things, but in the end - they are still in control and that's what's important to them.

3. There is a general mistrust in Israel towards the Palestinians (leave aside who's fault is it as I don't think we'll come to an agreement over this), so stalling works just fine to Netanyahu who doesn't need to deal with this explosive issue. He uses Hamas aggressiveness to his benefit, making sure Hamas stays in control, hence - weakening the General Palestinian interests.

 

 

[villakram]

17 minutes ago, Glarmorgan said:

I tend not to get into these discussion (as I find it hard to stand to the heat). Just wanted to say this is not accurate. 

If we'll look into the Israeli parliament - there are currently 10 Arab PMs (out of 120). They had 15, but the Arab party broke down and they lost some strength...

 

When you get to the Jewish parties - there is only one party which I can say is racist, and it consists of 6 PMs which were heavily backed by Netnayahu. These are the only ones who consider the Palestinians and the Israeli Arabs as inferior.

The rest of the right wing parties (Bennet, New Hope, Likkud) think that a two state solution is not a viable solution and their approach to this changes. Bennet, for instance, supports the annexation of the West Bank and the assimilation of the Palestinians in Israel. Hence, one big happy country. The Likkud is more into stalling, avoiding dealing with this issue. Mainly aiming towards a self governing Palestinian regime in the West Bank, as it is now.

The rest of the parties sees the two state solution as a viable one. The discussion is when and how. The fact that there's a different rulers in the West Bank and Gaza makes this more complicated, since there are practically two Palestinian entities at the moment. I think this suits most of the parties now.

1. Hamas draws its power from the conflict in Israel. They wish to sustain it in some level. The rockets launched at Jerusalem  last week are a good example. I don't think Hamas foresaw what's coming, as in most cases Israel retaliates quite softly to rocket attacks.

2. The Palestinian Authority is weak and the chance they'll lose to Hamas in General elections is quite high. The Palestinian Authority relies and cooperates with Israel to maintain relatively peaceful lives in the West Bank, as the Palestinian economy is dependent on Israel - mayn Palestinians work here, they export their merchandise into Israel and the Israeli-Arabs go to their stores to enjoy the cheaper prices.  So they say harsh things, but in the end - they are still in control and that's what's important to them.

3. There is a general mistrust in Israel towards the Palestinians (leave aside who's fault is it as I don't think we'll come to an agreement over this), so stalling works just fine to Netanyahu who doesn't need to deal with this explosive issue. He uses Hamas aggressiveness to his benefit, making sure Hamas stays in control, hence - weakening the General Palestinian interests.

 

 

There is unanimous consensus among the "Israeli" parties that the "arab" representatives must never be allowed into government. Hence, the issue with all these elections recently, most evident when those 15 representatives were not considered during the previous potential governing scenarios.

What do you think of the attack on Al Aqsa during Ramadan? Or the systematic ejection of "non-desirables" from Jerusalem?

[magnkarl]

7 minutes ago, villakram said:

There is unanimous consensus among the "Israeli" parties that the "arab" representatives must never be allowed into government. Hence, the issue with all these elections recently, most evident when those 15 representatives were not considered during the previous potential governing scenarios.

What do you think of the attack on Al Aqsa during Ramadan? Or the systematic ejection of "non-desirables" from Jerusalem?

The guy said he doesn't want to debate that sort of thing, and he's clearly not a fan of Netanyahu, like the majority of Israelis. 

What do you think of Hamas, Egypt, Syria, Jordan+++ launching a war on Israel on Yom Kippur? What do you think of Hezbollah and Iran having "eradicating jews" as one of their main foreign polices?

Edited May 19, 2021 by magnkarl

[villakram]

Just now, magnkarl said:

The guy said he doesn't want to debate that sort of thing, and he's clearly not a fan of Netanyahu, like the majority of Israelis. 

What do you think of Hamas, Egypt, Syria, Jordan+++ launching a war on Israel on Yom Kippur?

What is controversial about asking for his/her take. The post was a useful addition to the content here and hence, some more input would be welcome. Particularly, as it would appear to be coming from a direction that differs (not necessarily opposite) from the majority of the posts here. 

 

[bickster]

14 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

The guy said he doesn't want to debate that sort of thing

No he didn't, He said...

47 minutes ago, Glarmorgan said:

I tend not to get into these discussion (as I find it hard to stand to the heat).

 

[OutByEaster?]

31 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

What do you think of Hamas, Egypt, Syria, Jordan+++ launching a war on Israel on Yom Kippur? 

Bloody Hamas, starting wars 14 years before they were founded!

 

[sne]

9 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Bloody Hamas, starting wars 14 years before they were founded!

 

Probably why Israel kills so many children. Doing the Skynet time travel approach and terminating them early.

[magnkarl]

48 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Bloody Hamas, starting wars 14 years before they were founded!

 

Can I recommend googling September 16th Hamas rockets, and trying to figure out how many times Hamas lobbed rockets at innocents during the Jewish holiday? If you think I was solely referring to the Yom Kippur war you need to read about more about what Hamas is about. 

[bickster]

1 hour ago, villakram said:

What is controversial about asking for his/her take. The post was a useful addition to the content here and hence, some more input would be welcome. Particularly, as it would appear to be coming from a direction that differs (not necessarily opposite) from the majority of the posts here. 

Definition of irony

[OutByEaster?]

39 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Can I recommend googling September 16th Hamas rockets, and trying to figure out how many times Hamas lobbed rockets at innocents during the Jewish holiday? If you think I was solely referring to the Yom Kippur war you need to read about more about what Hamas is about. 

Ah, yes, I did think you were referring to the war, when you asked about the war.

 

[villakram]

33 minutes ago, bickster said:

Definition of irony

Definition of an Alanis fan.

[villakram]

1 hour ago, OutByEaster? said:

Bloody Hamas, starting wars 14 years before they were founded!

 

Rob Fisk's book on Lebanon is fantastic and well worth a read, with plenty a reminder regarding the Israeli support for certain groups in order to undermine Arafat and his gang way back.

[bickster]

2 minutes ago, villakram said:

Definition of an Alanis fan.

Nope. Irony: a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result.

[villakram]

47 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

Can I recommend googling September 16th Hamas rockets, and trying to figure out how many times Hamas lobbed rockets at innocents during the Jewish holiday? If you think I was solely referring to the Yom Kippur war you need to read about more about what Hamas is about. 

OT somewhat, but an always interesting philosophical question: Are people in a democracy innocent or do they bear direct responsibility for the actions of their leaders? In particular, the needle in this comes when one compares to a dictatorship.