Israel, Palestine and Iran

[bickster]

18 minutes ago, Glarmorgan said:

Mind you - there's another country bordering with Gaza, so they can move freely to Sinay and Egypt, and indeed, many of the Gazans found their way to El Qaeeda forces in Sinay...

This conveniently ignores the fact that goods cannot cross at that border and must use the Israeli border. Israel closes the border and goods cannot get through

 

[chrisp65]

48 minutes ago, Glarmorgan said:

I totally disagree. The Israeli court is not racial and in fact, is under a lot of fire from the Right wing parties, as they claim it's too leftist and takes care of Palestinians more than the Jewish. 

So, explain to me, the Nation State Law.

The version I’m seeing might be wrong, but it appears to give Jews the unique right over all others for national self determination. It appears to put the Hebrew language on a higher national recognition than Arabic and, to me, it encourages ‘Jewish settlement’ not only as ok, but as a basic national value and aim.

Are those points wrong?

 

[chrisp65]

57 minutes ago, Glarmorgan said:

This is why I am trying to look at things at a wider angle as possible. I can't "blame" the Palestinians for doing what they're doing, since I am not living their lives. What I do know is that you look at things from a western point of view, just as I do, and this is why it is extremely difficult to understand the situations.

Everyone here has to remember one thing - the last chapter of Gaza-Israel was was initiated by Hammas. They decided to launch rockets at Jerusalem with no Israeli provocation. You can claim there is misjustice in Sheikh Jerakh or some foolish acts of the Israeli police in Al Aqsa. Still, these issued brought Hammas to launch their rockets at civilians in Jerusalem. What would one expect Israel, to ignore? Israel is more powerful, and for me - that's a good thing and as an Israeli citizen - I want my super strong army to retaliate against someone who just feels like launching rockets at my Capital city, because they don't like the way the Israeli police conducts itself. The fact that the IDF is stronger should be taken under consideration by the Hammas, before trying to make attacking move.

There is no territorial dispute with Gaza. Israel withdrew completely, demolished all the settlements. There is no one Israeli, nor Jewish man or woman in Gaza strip. The only thing Israel does - is to close the border with Gaza, as its being ruled by an entity calling for its destruction. Mind you - there's another country bordering with Gaza, so they can move freely to Sinay and Egypt, and indeed, many of the Gazans found their way to El Qaeeda forces in Sinay...

And as I stated before - I won't get into who's more just. I still think that people are not really aware to the whole picture, and that's quite understandable. I guess I would think the same if it was a conflict being run thousands of Kilometers from me. 

You also need to remember that the last conflict brought some inside eruption of violence, mainly from the Israeli-Arab population. Not the majority, but still - it happened. As a person who works in a mixed city, this is not only worrying, but also hampering the good relationships between the residents of such cities.

This whole piece suggests everything is the fault of the mean Arabs.

No sense of perspective or the history of the conflict or the plight of the people economically crippled by Israel. I’m not suggesting its entirely Israel’s fault, far from it, but you appear to be suggesting the latest round of murder can be looked at in isolation, and is wholly the fault of the people that the Israeli state has bombed and killed. That is a lie and you are either deceiving yourself, or hoping to deceive others.

You have a criminal, murderous government attempting to distract from their corruption by bombing families. It’s not a good look to try and rationalise this or distract from it.

[villakram]

1 hour ago, Glarmorgan said:

This is why I am trying to look at things at a wider angle as possible. I can't "blame" the Palestinians for doing what they're doing, since I am not living their lives. What I do know is that you look at things from a western point of view, just as I do, and this is why it is extremely difficult to understand the situations.

Everyone here has to remember one thing - the last chapter of Gaza-Israel was was initiated by Hammas. They decided to launch rockets at Jerusalem with no Israeli provocation. You can claim there is misjustice in Sheikh Jerakh or some foolish acts of the Israeli police in Al Aqsa. Still, these issued brought Hammas to launch their rockets at civilians in Jerusalem. What would one expect Israel, to ignore? Israel is more powerful, and for me - that's a good thing and as an Israeli citizen - I want my super strong army to retaliate against someone who just feels like launching rockets at my Capital city, because they don't like the way the Israeli police conducts itself. The fact that the IDF is stronger should be taken under consideration by the Hammas, before trying to make attacking move.

There is no territorial dispute with Gaza. Israel withdrew completely, demolished all the settlements. There is no one Israeli, nor Jewish man or woman in Gaza strip. The only thing Israel does - is to close the border with Gaza, as its being ruled by an entity calling for its destruction. Mind you - there's another country bordering with Gaza, so they can move freely to Sinay and Egypt, and indeed, many of the Gazans found their way to El Qaeeda forces in Sinay...

And as I stated before - I won't get into who's more just. I still think that people are not really aware to the whole picture, and that's quite understandable. I guess I would think the same if it was a conflict being run thousands of Kilometers from me. 

You also need to remember that the last conflict brought some inside eruption of violence, mainly from the Israeli-Arab population. Not the majority, but still - it happened. As a person who works in a mixed city, this is not only worrying, but also hampering the good relationships between the residents of such cities.

Interesting take. Which part of Israel borders Gaza on the med side? Which part of Israel borders Gaza in the z-direction? They don't just close the border, they control it unilaterally as an occupying power.

 

[villakram]

On 21/05/2021 at 07:08, Glarmorgan said:

I don't know how to break rhe quotations, so I'll answer in points.

1. First - your are not accurate. There was an Arab minister some years back. There were and are Arab PMs who are part of the "Israeli" parties. Not enough - I agree, but there are. You are talking of the Arab  parties. which were never a part of the government. There are  big differences between the Arab parties and a general dislike among themselves. There is the Communist party (which also include Jewish members), there's the Islamic party (RA'AM) and there is an Arab-National party (BALAD) and a one-man-party (TA'AL), lead by Ahmad Tibi, past advisor for Arafat. Up until recently, the general mistrust and the was these parties conducted their parliamentary activity deemed them impossible to cooperate with. At the same time - they refused to be a part of the government, as they don't want to be accountable for the Israeli government deeds.

This was changes a couple of elections ago, as the unified Arab party decided to be more active and to support Benny Gantz. The last election saw the United Arab party breaking up, as the Islamic party declared they wish to be a part of the government, in oppose to the other 2 parties who wish to "support the government from the outside" at the most, while BALAD refuse to take any part, in any way. This decision by Mansur Abbas, the leader of the Islamic Party was a game changer, and Even Netanyahu tried to get their support. 

2. Al Aqsa - I am not an expert. It seems that the breaking in and the use of stun guns was foolish, to say the least. At the same time I have to say there was a reason for the Police to intervene, as violent acts errupted "To save El Aqsa" or something like that, as if El Aqsa was under any danger. The religious acts bring a lot of heat...

3. Just this morning I read a long column, analyzing the situation in Sheikh Jerakh (or however its spelled in English). From a legal point of view - it seems the Jewish settlers there have the advantage. It's long and complicated, but all in all - the houses there are owned by Jewish groups and the Arab habitants refused to pay their monthly rent. In general, this is a civilian issue and the state of Israel has got nothing to do with it. As far as I know, there is no official plan to settle in East Jerusalem or to eject "non-desirables" from there. This is mainly an issue of the extreme right-wing groups here. In my opinion - settling in the middle of a hostile Arab population is not the smart nor the right thing to do, and I say that as a person who works in a mixed-city,  working with Arab and Jewish teens.

 

 

Thanks, point 1 is useful color to add to the debate.

'Save al Aqsa'... from the rampaging Palestinians hell bent on it's destruction? Come on. Yes, the religious acts bring a lot of heat and are of great utility to a motivated politician.

Point 3... the Irish had huge problems paying rent to the English once upon a time too. "Blacks" in the US had and to some degree still have this problem too. I can go on. "Rent" is such a loaded word in this context. You need to think a little more about what is happening here. One facit of it used to be called redlining over here.

[a-k]

4 hours ago, villakram said:

Interesting take. Which part of Israel borders Gaza on the med side? Which part of Israel borders Gaza in the z-direction? They don't just close the border, they control it unilaterally as an occupying power.

 

Ask yourself why the Gaza border with Egypt is almost always closed and why Egypt knocked down 3000 buildings (in violation of international law) to create a 1km buffer zone with the border.

[villakram]

6 minutes ago, a-k said:

Ask yourself why the Gaza border with Egypt is almost always closed and why Egypt knocked down 3000 buildings (in violation of international law) to create a 1km buffer zone with the border.

 I'll take dictatorships backed by the US government for $500. 

[bickster]

Looks like Netanyahu is being ousted by a coalition of opposition parties including those from the right

[sne]

Quote

Facebook's strategies strike at Palestinians

The company is next door to everyone - and stays well with the right people in power

 

Jordana Cutler is Israel's head of Facebook's PR and lobbying activities. Her political career includes a post as chief of staff at the country's embassy in Washington and before that special adviser to Benjamin Netanyahu . Now she is employed by an American technology company, but in an interview with the Jerusalem Post , she openly says that during her four years on Facebook she has sat on two chairs: she also represents the Netanyahu government. https://www.jpost.com/50-most-influential-jews/jordana-cutler-642279

 

The pro-Israel content moderation on Facebook has been well known since Cutler took office and has attracted attention in the international media. So when Palestinian families were to be evicted from their homes in Sheikh Jarrah a few months ago, the ensuing protests resulted in a massive, Facebook-sanctioned, digital attack.
Of a total of three billion Facebook users, 0.002 percent are Israelis. An internal Facebook investigation revealed an apparently coordinated avalanche of reports from Israeli users during the Sheikh Jarrah conflict; in one week, 155,000 (!) reports of "terrorist content" were received. It is unparalleled anywhere else in the world. During the recent conflict, Israeli users reported ten times more alleged terrorist propaganda and hate crimes than the Palestinians, despite the fact that the latter constitute twice as many users on the platform.

Human rights organizations and the international media report unanimously on how journalists at Al-Jazeera and Agence France-Presse, among others, have had their social media accounts blocked when they reported from the conflict. Numerous videos and posts showing Israeli violence in the West Bank and Gaza are removed without explanation. In a post in an internal chat group, a Facebook employee asked the obvious question: "Are we constantly, intentionally and systematically silencing Palestinian voices"?

While Facebook handled the loud Israeli complaints, the country's right-wing nationalists coordinated their attacks on the company's apps. The New York Times reports on WhatsApp groups dubbed "Death to the Arabs!"  https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/19/technology/israeli-clashes-pro-violence-groups-whatsapp.html where addresses and map images are posted; which shops are to be looted, which areas are to be set on fire. When the attacks were carried out, pictures of the effects were published - seriously injured people and burnt down restaurants.

Facebook, which owns WhatsApp, did not seem to notice any of the obvious incitement to violence - it was apparently busy dealing with the avalanche of Israeli reports. But when Facebook products began to receive low ratings and nasty comments in the Apple App Store about their handling of all of the above, Facebook acted in the usual oligarchic manner. They contacted Apple in a panic to persuade them to censor the criticism. Apple refused.

 

https://www.aftonbladet.se/kultur/a/Ln2OoP/facebooks-strategier-slar-mot-palestinier

[villakram]

On 30/05/2021 at 13:44, bickster said:

Looks like Netanyahu is being ousted by a coalition of opposition parties including those from the right

More lives than a cat, let's see what storm he cooks up this time.

[El Zen]

On 01/06/2021 at 21:48, villakram said:

More lives than a cat, let's see what storm he cooks up this time.

Looks like he’s finally gone.

[sne]

Would be lovely if he was to spend the remainder of his days in jail. Doubt it will happen thou.

[El Zen]

The absolute state of things when you count Neftali Bennett’s emergence as Israeli PM as a net plus, though. 

[a-k]

Thoughts and prayers for all those who were so convinced Israel is an apartheid state despite the fact that a member of the so-called oppressed demographic is a key member of government.

Edited June 4, 2021 by a-k

[bickster]

8 minutes ago, a-k said:

Thoughts and prayers for all those who were so convinced Israel is an apartheid state despite the fact that a member of the so-called oppressed demographic is a key member of government.

Well it's an opinion, it's not a very valid one given the weight of evidence on the other side but carry on with the propaganda, people will just take it face value for what it is

[chrisp65]

2 hours ago, a-k said:

Thoughts and prayers for all those who were so convinced Israel is an apartheid state despite the fact that a member of the so-called oppressed demographic is a key member of government.

You can keep your thoughts and prayers.

I’ll look at the evidence of ethnic cleansing, infanticide, and stealing land for growing room.

[Chindie]

Careful now.

[bannedfromHandV]

12 hours ago, a-k said:

Thoughts and prayers for all those who were so convinced Israel is an apartheid state despite the fact that a member of the so-called oppressed demographic is a key member of government.

“so-called oppressed”

Is that like someone writing the ‘so-called Holocaust’, i.e. inflammatory and untrue? 

[KenjiOgiwara]

Picked up groceries for the weekend. Noticed produce from Israel. Put it back.

Now got a table at a palestinian restaurant for tonight or strictly speaking lebanese, but they ho.

Means nothing ofc. but feels good

 

[sne]

32 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Picked up groceries for the weekend. Noticed produce from Israel. Put it back.

Now got a table at a palestinian restaurant for tonight or strictly speaking lebanese, but they ho.

Means nothing ofc. but feels good

 

Not knowingly bought any Israeli products since I went to Uni in the mid 90's. No Soda Stream, no Jaffa oranges or other fruits and veggies and so on. Sure I've unknowingly brought home stuff but when I have they choice I leave it to rot on the shelves. 

FWIW Israel used to have 729 as their country prefix on the EAN code. Not sure if that's still the case.