Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Brentford

[HanoiVillan]

That was utter, utter shite and I'm beginning to lose patience. 

[OutByEaster?]

Well.

I think in football there are only really a limited number of ways to do things - there's the whole defensive bit, the set piece bit and the important bit when you've got the ball. When you've got the ball, in so far as I can see, there's three main things you do - you pass and probe and create, you hit long balls up to the forward and get him support, or you get the ball out wide.

What I've noticed is that good teams are able to do all three. What I've also noticed is that if you overbalance on those things you tend to lose your way a bit; think Arsenal, who accidentally got a little bit 96% pass, probe and create and, even though they were very good at it, became easier to defend.

What I've noticed is that for other teams, the pass, probe and create bit is sort of Plan A - they do a bit of the other stuff, but they usually try that first. I've noticed that pretty much all of them do it better than us.

We're not too bad at the long ball to big Keinan, and he's proving very good at the holding it up bit, although there's still work to be done on the joining in. We occasionally show a little ability in getting the ball out wide (although we still have some work to do on what we do with it once it's there) but....and it's a but as big as Steve Bruce's big ol' butt in mid season....the main bit, the pass and probe and create bit, we don't do that well, in fact, it's pretty difficult to make a case to say we do it at all. There's a thing in the coaching stuff about little triangles and passing and movement; erm..nope.

Today was our case in point - too often one of the centre halves or Whelan would find themselves staring into a green wall with no options, no simple ball, no movement and nothing to aim for - they were faced with the awkward choice of whacking it at Davis or losing it clumsily - they did a bit of both. On occasion, Terry hit a lovely long diagonal - but for the most part, with the team eschewing the midfield route, they were expected to possess the creativity of Zidane from a position thirty yards further back than Zidane would have considered sensible.

That's quite tricky. In fact, that's one of the reasons other teams tend to use the pass, probe, create thing as Plan A - if lets you get more people involved, some of whom are the ones that are good on the ball that you paid good money for. It's also much nicer on the eye, which means that when you're not losing you don't look as ugly as well...I'm back to Bruce's backside in December.

Being nicer on the eye works wonders with supporters, we sometimes call the pass, probe, create thing "playing football" and it's quite popular. It also helps players build a bit of confidence as it lets them all have a touch and not have to run around chasing the ball so much - I'm not a coach or a manager, but I'm fairly sure it's more fun passing the ball to your chums than it is running after it like a headless chicken and being booed off at half time.

So yeah - we didn't pass the ball well today.

We also saw a new thing - a high line that really struggled to defend the straight ball over the top - now again, I'm not an expert, but I can certainly recall pundits banging on about things being "just a straight ball" and "you've got to defend those better" when the international football is on the telly. It's one of the things they describe as fundamental. We struggled a bit - and I wonder if we might be better not pushing our defenders quite so far up the pitch - neither Terry or Chester is going to win the race to a dropped fiver.

Life's tough for Terry and Chester at the moment, what with being expected to race small kids over thirty yards and create chances from their own penalty area, so I'm taking things a little easy on them.

In fairness, it's in front of them where things are more worrying - the only word I can really think of to describe us is flaccid. We have two decent centre midfielders who are maybe a little similar - Onomah and Hourihane are both neat enough on the ball, but not likely to run past Davis into those areas where they might score - the goals I can imagine these two scoring come from outside the box, I think we could do with a midfielder who can score from four yards out - almost a modern Lee Hendrie. I'm not sure these two work as a pair.

Out wide, Green looked bright, so obviously he was snatched from us by the footballing Gods in a fit of pique at our refusal to "play football". Without him, we're in trouble. Snodgrass looked liked he could be useful out on the right too, there's a little promise there. Elmohamady looked like he's friends with the gaffer.

We looked better at the start of the second half when we lifted the tempo and at the end when the game was a little chaotic - we're good in those situations, because well, that's how we are by nature - individuals trying the individual things they're good at.

We're not the worst team I think, there are some good players there, but we play bad football - it's not fun to watch - which is forgivable if you're playing winning bad football. We're not. We either need to start playing football or start winning (or both) and we need to do it quickly, because we're rapidly approaching a situation where someone will need to be blamed.

 

 

Johnstone (8) - thank McGrath for this lad - a couple of really excellent saves, particularly the one with his feet in the one on one - he's an improved keeper on last season. I'm starting to wish he was ours.

Bree (5) - passable, but struggled at times to make any impact on the game. He's young and the teams lack of confidence rubs off on him.

Chester (5) - solid enough, but not happy having to turn and chase the number nine.

Terry (6) - as per Chester but with the occasional good long pass and the common sense/balls to go and tell the prat of a referee that you don't stop the game so that players can treat each other for cramp.

Taylor (5) - that's what we're getting; deal with it. He's alright.

Whelan (5) - wins it and plays it simple - well, I say simple, in our team he wins it, looks up, turns, looks up again, looks up again and eventually finds no one and launches it upfield in the faint hope that it'll stick.

Onomah (6) - bright touches, with the occasional lapse of concentration, he brings the occasional burst of pace and aggression - he's a good footballer, we could do with finding a way to use that.

Hourihane (6) - there's lots of good things about Hourihane, but taking a game by the scruff of the neck isn't one of them. When we play well, he'll play well.

Green (6) - our best outfield player for much of the game; what I liked today was that he showed more of a willingness to go down the outside of people as well as cutting inside onto his right foot, he was more dangerous for that. If it is what it looks like, he'll be four or five weeks away from showing us again. 

Elmohamady (4) - he's "honest" apparently. I'd offer my honest appraisal, but swearing isn't big or clever. 

Davis (6) - he's absolutely brilliant at holding the ball up, holding defenders off and bringing others into play (if they can be arsed) - he's sort of like Dion Dublin without the goals. If those come, we've got a real good un.

Subs

Snodgrass (6) - did okay I thought, no killer final cross today, but he forced a couple of the others to get involved in football and looked a bit of a threat.

Hogan (5) - Hogan'd about - he's a goalscorer and when we don't score he's unlikely to make a massive impact.

Agbonlahor (6) - at least he livens the place up, he's good at this twenty minute thing, he knocks people over, wins balls and upsets defenders. I like him as a late sub.

There's loads more to say I guess, but I'm still a little bit greyed-out by the football we play. You know when you come in from a really cold day or from a really loud concert and you're not quite back into reality because you've been subjected to.....ah you know how this sentence ends, finish it yourself.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[midian]

Terrible

[matteyp]

I was annoyed with the replays until I realised it was saving me from watching the live football.  I also was completely unsure who the man of the match was until I realised it was the goalkeeper by a country mile.  We looked like the away team and created nothing.  I really want stability but Bruce has had a year, two transfer windows and needs to go.  We were very second best at home against a team who will probably be in the frame for relegation, if they were any better (say had Hogan) would have won.  Just the thought of waiting another year for the semblance of hope leaves me cold.  Austin next week could be ugly.  Fire the replay guy and take Bruce with you.

[Nigel]

My support for Bruce is wavering after that!

 That was an awful a performance you could wish to see at home to a very average side.

Their fans summed it up at the end 'you're f##kin shittttt... you're f##kin shit'!

[briny_ear]

Didn't watch any of this match so perhaps it's unwise to comment.

But just looking at the BBC Sport app. I see we had ONE shot on target whole match.

What the **** is going on?

This is unacceptable and can't be allowed to continue.

Sounds like we have a lot to thank Johnstone for.

[gilbertoAVFC]

Our squad is so big and so expensive and genuinely is full of quality players at this level.

It's really quite embarrassing.

If we get a good manager in we will shoot up the table I am certain. Just do it Tony.

[S-Platt]

Our one tactic is hit it long to Elmohamdy for him to flick it to no one.   I bought a season ticket this year because I expected us to actually play some football and score some goals.  This league is not hard.  There are simply no excuses for producing that pile of shit.

Brentford could have had 4 or 5.  Have sold their best players yet are light years ahead of us at playing football.  That comes from the Manager and coaches.  Imagine us playing like that with the players we have!! We would piss the league.

Replace the manager and see the improvement its that simple.

[PompeyVillan]

I must be the only one that thinks that Bruce needs more time? I opposed his appointment at the time, and thought it was a disgrace that we weren't promoted last season. 

But then again, I don't think we can keep changing our manger and expecting instant results. Bruce is a competent manager, his record suggests that. He wasn't my choice but sacking him now would do more harm than good. 

Results are important and they've not been good enough, but we're not yet at the tipping point, it's early in the season and there is plenty of time to improve.

My feeling is that we've been through a period of upheaval and the squad is in a decent place, it seems almost balanced to me.Not perfect, but good enough for promotion. 

From now on, there won't be wholesale change to the squad, the best part of the clear out has happened. Now we need to knuckle down and get some results. 

And hey at least Bruce isn't telling us to go again, or they're an honest bunch of lads, or we can't complete or whatever. He he's his hands up and takes the pressure off the players. He wants this to work as much as we do. 

[blandy]

What I took from @OutByEaster? 's accurate summary, for those with limited time was

Steve Bruce...arse...flaccid.

even in condensed form, it's difficult to find fault with the insight. Bob on.

[chappy]

Edit: site rules- insert Will Inbetweeners **** dreadful gif here

 

I was excited for my first game of the season. More fool me!

I had a ST under Mcleish and still can't remember seeing much worse from us at VP.

Johnstone comfortably MOTM today and we have him to thank for our point. Brentford might think they were unlucky not to win but the real story of today was how awful we were. 

Onomah showed glimpses of brilliance but that was about as good as it got for us. Terry missed a decent chance from a first half header and Hogan put himself about a bit after coming on. 

The bottom line is that we lacked ideas and this has to come from the manager. 

Johnstone 9 MOTM -earned us our undeserved point. 

Bree 6 Best RB in the squad 

Terry 6 better than of late

Chester 5 probably the worst I've seen him for us. Not the man you want that chance falling to on 84 mins

Taylor 6 can't complain, he did what he does. Solid but offers little going forward 

Elmo 5 wins headers but not much else. Would have Snodgrass or Adomah in for him.

Whelan 5 thought he was decent first half but in the second half his insatiable appetite to pass backwards was the opposite of what we needed

Onomah 6 he's decent but we need to play in a more attacking way to utilise him best 

Hourihane 5 see above, little impact today

Green 5 flashes of good but still not convinced he's ready to be a starter every game

Davis 6 did what he could but we need a goal scorer alongside him

 

subs

Snodgrass 5 maybe too much expectation, maybe poor play around him but didn't really make much of an impact

Hogan 6 I like him but we aren't set up for him to thrive. Did all he could under the circumstances.

Gabby 5 nice to see an incentive sub for Onomah rather than Lansbury coming on (nothing against HL here) but didn't have much impact 

 

Can't see us beating Boro on today's showing. Time to change the manager for me. We have the players, we need to use them correctly.

Edited September 9, 2017 by chappy

[TheStagMan]

You're a brave man posting that - so I will answer respectfully

14 hours ago, PompeyVillan said:

I must be the only one that thinks that Bruce needs more time? I opposed his appointment at the time, and thought it was a disgrace that we weren't promoted last season.

You are certainly in a small but stubborn minority. Oddly, I and many other #BruseOut'ers were not opposed to his appointment, thought it made sense and were willing to accept last season  as a consolidation and stabilization exercise.

14 hours ago, PompeyVillan said:

But then again, I don't think we can keep changing our manger and expecting instant results. 

We haven't changed our manager for a year. Its not like we are chewing them up and spitting them out. But after 12 months we should be seeing something - some plan, some glimmer of improvement. Honestly - look at the last two performances and tell me what has improved.

14 hours ago, PompeyVillan said:

Bruce is a competent manager, his record suggests that. 

His record may suggest that, his performances, interviews and actions however do not - lets not even talk about results....;

14 hours ago, PompeyVillan said:

He wasn't my choice but sacking him now would do more harm than good. 

It cannot possibly do more harm than good. We *are* that bad. Anyone who thinks that this is a team that is coming together is deluded. The players were arguing with each other today. Arguing. On the pitch. 

14 hours ago, PompeyVillan said:

Results are important and they've not been good enough, but we're not yet at the tipping point, it's early in the season and there is plenty of time to improve.

They are everything! Frankly we are at the tipping point. There is not plenty of time to improve, not if we want to get promoted. If we dont get promoted this season, the likelyhood is that we are staying down here. 

14 hours ago, PompeyVillan said:

My feeling is that we've been through a period of upheaval and the squad is in a decent place, it seems almost balanced to me.Not perfect, but good enough for promotion. 

The squad is very good. Most Championship teams can only dream of a squad like ours, including some that are challenging for promotion, but it is not balanced, we list to the right very heavily. We also have more rightbacks than the rest of the league put together. This squad though is easily good enough for promotion.

14 hours ago, PompeyVillan said:

From now on, there won't be wholesale change to the squad, the best part of the clear out has happened.

Yep, plus there isn't a transfer window for four months..... so we cant change the squad.....

14 hours ago, PompeyVillan said:

And hey at least Bruce isn't telling us to go again, or they're an honest bunch of lads, or we can't complete or whatever. He he's his hands up and takes the pressure off the players. 

Has he? - all I heard was excuses and him blaming everyone that he can think of? The two times when he suggested he *might* have got something wrong, he immediately followed up with an excuse as to why it wasn't his fault though. I am surprised he hasn't blamed Brexit yet.

14 hours ago, PompeyVillan said:

He wants this to work as much as we do. 

I'm sure he does want that. I wan't to woo Anne Hathaway. Doesn't mean that I am going to be able to make it happen though. 

Edited September 10, 2017 by TheStagMan

[DevonIsAPlaceOnEarth]

That was horrendous. I drove through torrential rain and road works for 4 hours there, and 4 back, to watch that.

disgraceful performance really in that no one seemed to care.

positives, erm Johnstone made some really smart saves today. Snodgrass had intent when he came on. That's about it.

negatives are easier.

Whelan was awful, he's just surprisingly not upto it.

What has happened to Chester from last year? He's a shadow of that player, and a liability at times.

Hogan looks a shell of a £12mil player.

 

ive resisted saying it before, but Bruce is responsible and is holding us back now.

[turvontour]

We averaged just over a point and a goal a game last season.

We averaged just over a point and a goal a game across pre season.

Guess whats happening this season?

Come on Stevie mate, lets call it a day.

[peterms]

2 hours ago, blandy said:

What I took from @OutByEaster? 's accurate summary, for those with limited time was

Steve Bruce...arse...flaccid.

Well there's a whole rich mine of jokes there.  But I don't wish to lower the tone, so I won't go there, this time.

[fifamad]

Can tell how depressing this game was as there's not even been a big backlash in the ratings thread only 4 pages of swallowed sadness... am really getting fed up of villa ruining my weekend! 

[Harry]

Certainly two hours of my life that I won't get back. Utter crap from Villa coupled with the ignominy of being outplayed by Brentford and scrabbling a desperate point at home against them.

I'm sorry but I totally lay this at Bruce's door. I don't think he has a clue as to what the appropriate formation is or who are his best 11 players are or how to change a game by variation of tactics or for that matter what tactics to adopt at the start of a game. Today's game summed all of that up for me.

The fans around us in the Holte were going mad watching the utter crap that was being served up and I think Bruce and the team got off pretty lightly given the abject performance we all witnessed. Carry on like this and we will achieve mid-table mediocrity at best.

What little faith I had in a Bruce as a manager has now gone and the quicker Dr Tony sees that he is not the manager to get us promoted the better. The simple fact is we can't even do the basics right and it will not get any better until the owner pulls the trigger and fires Bruce.

Oh and finally a special mention to the utter tossers who steward K2 and K3 in the Holte who managed to eject or encourage to leave with the help of the police around a dozen fans for basically nothing.

[romavillan]

Bruce needs to tell us why this expensive group of proven talent at this level and above get totally schooled by Brentford at home. Their first touch, their movement, all the football basics were way above ours. How can that be and there be any decent level of coaching at BMH?

[thunderball]

Cancelled Sky three weeks ago. Won't be missing much.

Are there any new, young Villa fans? It's only distant memories that keeps my waning interest.

[USA_Villa]

I fully expected Brentford to play better football than us, but to be honest they outplayed us. They controlled the first half without having a real clear cut chance and then dominated the second creating three very good chances. 

Can we now all agree that his time should now come to an end.