Russia and its “Special Operation” in Ukraine

[Tayls]

4 minutes ago, avfc1982am said:

Why would you push forward allowing the deaths of potentially thousands of soldiers to gain land then hand over the region? It doesn't make much sense tbh. Also, the number of Russian's isn't relevant if Ukrainians are better trained, have better equipment and most importantly the will to defend and take back what is theirs. People forget Ukraine has a population of 40m. They can fight Russia off for years if necessary. They already have been for 8 years. 

 

 

But UA only have so many fighting, if Russia keeps pumping these multiple thousands of people over to the front line with guns and other weapons then it’s going to eventually come out on top. 300k apparently about to join, which, let’s face it is probably actually going to be closer to 1m that have been called up. It will become too much… 

I just can’t figure out in my head how that can be repelled. Especially as much of Russias main army still remains. 

[ender4]

9 minutes ago, Tayls said:

But UA only have so many fighting, if Russia keeps pumping these multiple thousands of people over to the front line with guns and other weapons then it’s going to eventually come out on top. 300k apparently about to join, which, let’s face it is probably actually going to be closer to 1m that have been called up. It will become too much… 

I just can’t figure out in my head how that can be repelled. Especially as much of Russias main army still remains. 

Because a good proportion of the Ukranian population want to fight to liberate their country. They probably have a few million people out of 40m population willing to fight. They have better weapons if USA keeps providing them. They have momentum and morale. They have shorter supply lines. The non-fighting population welcomes them rather than opposing them.

[avfc1982am]

1 minute ago, Tayls said:

But UA only have so many fighting, if Russia keeps pumping these multiple thousands of people over to the front line with guns and other weapons then it’s going to eventually come out on top. 300k apparently about to join, which, let’s face it is probably actually going to be closer to 1m that have been called up. It will become too much… 

I just can’t figure out in my head how that can be repelled. Especially as much of Russias main army still remains. 

Ukraine could call up potentially 5m it's estimated at least 750k are currently active if I remember correctly. 300k isn't a huge concern for Ukraine, especially when most are conscripted, forced or under equipped and under trained. Your going on like Russia haven't been decimated over the last 7 months. Bearing in mind at the start of this Ukraine didn't have the weapons, troop numbers or intel to protect themselves. Now they have upper hand in all of these areas. Also, many of the Ukrainians in the field are veterans now, hardened after several months of fighting. Versed in hit and run, western tactics. Getting stronger by the day and taking land that is home.  

I wouldn't worry about Russia too much yet. In 8 years, they've failed to take the Donbas. They only took Crimea because there wasn't a fight. If anything, it's the Russians that should be fearful because for all the bluster they're decades behind the West militarily.   

[sidcow]

15 minutes ago, Tayls said:

But UA only have so many fighting, if Russia keeps pumping these multiple thousands of people over to the front line with guns and other weapons then it’s going to eventually come out on top. 300k apparently about to join, which, let’s face it is probably actually going to be closer to 1m that have been called up. It will become too much… 

I just can’t figure out in my head how that can be repelled. Especially as much of Russias main army still remains. 

300,000 items of cannon fodder sent ill motivated, ill equipped and badly trained to die in machine gun and artillery fire. 

Russia could send 1m troops in the morning and it wouldn't make any difference other than more body bags and much bigger POW camps would be needed. 

This is a high tech/mechanical war, manpower beyond very well equipped highly trained soldiers is broadly irrelevant. 

The conscripts don't want to be there and don't want to fight and are pretty much incapable of fighting effectively anyway. 

[Tayls]

It’s such an odd war. I don’t really understand it, nor do I understand how this is going to play out over next few months. Putin is saying he is going to retake those regions which he has annexed.. how will he do this? 

[avfc1982am]

 

[ciggiesnbeer]

Re the Russian mobilization. I watched an interview with a Ukraine frontline soldier about it on DW news (paraphrasing) he said "modern wars dont work that way, mass numbers of raw infantry mean little. My machine gun can kill hundreds of badly trained Russian soldiers in an hour"

Also various western pundits have been saying the conscripts are just another burden for the Russian military. You have to feed , supply and transport these troops. Otherwise they will just melt away when they have their first contact.

I know nothing about military matters but it sounds plausible to me.

[mjmooney]

5 hours ago, ender4 said:

Because a good proportion of the Ukranian population want to fight to liberate their country. They probably have a few million people out of 40m population willing to fight. They have better weapons if USA keeps providing them. They have momentum and morale. They have shorter supply lines. The non-fighting population welcomes them rather than opposing them.

"One volunteer is worth ten pressed men". 

[LondonLax]

8 hours ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/04/politics/white-house-lobby-opec-oil-production-cuts-gasoline-prices-midterms/index.html

Worth noting.

We in the west are learning a lot about who our friends are. Next time Kuwait or Saudi Arabia are invaded, say by someone like Iraq or Iran they will find the phone isnt getting picked up our end. 

 

Bin Salman hates Biden. He was a fan of Trump who was always cosying up to the Saudis while Biden was calling him out on killing journalists etc. 

We’re in the run up to an election in the US and I am sure Bin Salman is taking great joy in making life uncomfortable for the Democrats. 

[Genie]

6 hours ago, avfc1982am said:

 

So the Russian media are reporting that their leaders are crap at war? That’s a major event for a country like Russia.

[magnkarl]

State Duma Committee OKs Draft Law Criminalizing 'False News' About Russian Military

Quote

A committee in Russia's State Duma has approved a draft law criminalizing the distribution of "false news" about military operations amid a crackdown on independent media outlets covering Moscow's ongoing, unprovoked invasion of Ukraine.

The Committee for State Building and Legislations approved the draft legislation on March 3.

After full approval by lawmakers, the bill is expected to be added as a separate article to the Criminal Code to "prevent the discrediting of the armed forces of the Russian Federation during their operations to protect the interests of the Russian Federation and its citizens, maintaining international peace and security."

6 months later...

State Duma deputy asks defense ministry to ‘stop lying’ about the war

Quote

Andrey Kartapolov, head of the State Duma Committee on Defense, criticized the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation for not reporting the whole truth about military action in Ukraine.

“They need to stop lying. We have spoken about this more than once. But somehow it doesn’t reach the individual leaders. I was reading reports from the Soviet Information Bureau from 1941, when the Germans broke through to Moscow. They openly said that we were retreating. But in every report they said that so-and-so brigade achieved something, our pilots destroyed so many, our losses were so many. And people understood the danger, they understood that the enemy was on our land. An enemy is also on our land now,” Kartapolov said on air on the television show Solovyov Live.

How's it going there, Vlady-boy? Tired of seeing you've shot down 200.000 death stars and blown up 30.000 HIMARS daily?

Edited October 6, 2022 by magnkarl

[It's Your Round]

11 hours ago, Panto_Villan said:

Posting this because it’s nice to know one less horrific thing has happened to Ukraine than previously thought:

 

Sky News going with the ‘mini-Auschwitz’ story this morning, no mention of the teeth belonging to the local dentist. They’re not gold teeth by the way, they’re discoloured stainless steel. 

Makes you wonder what else the big news corps get wrong. 

[sidcow]

8 hours ago, Tayls said:

It’s such an odd war. I don’t really understand it, nor do I understand how this is going to play out over next few months. Putin is saying he is going to retake those regions which he has annexed.. how will he do this? 

With bluster and bullshit. 

[sidcow]

6 hours ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

Otherwise they will just melt away when they have their first contact.

I know nothing about military matters but it sounds plausible to me.

We've pretty much seen this already, literally throwing down weapons/abandoning vehicles and running. 

[LondonLax]

34 minutes ago, It's Your Round said:

Sky News going with the ‘mini-Auschwitz’ story this morning, no mention of the teeth belonging to the local dentist. They’re not gold teeth by the way, they’re discoloured stainless steel. 

Makes you wonder what else the big news corps get wrong. 

Disinformation and propaganda comes from both sides but we are naturally very keen to believe stuff that supports ‘our team’ and dismiss stuff that doesn’t. 

[tinker]

13 minutes ago, sidcow said:

We've pretty much seen this already, literally throwing down weapons/abandoning vehicles and running. 

Like scared untrained kids......Putin's disgusting disregard for human life appears to be bottomless. How can people like this get into positions of power, stay there and manipulate a whole country into sending their children to their probable deaths.  it's horrendous..

[avfc1982am]

LMAO....

 

[pas5898]

10 hours ago, Tayls said:

But UA only have so many fighting, if Russia keeps pumping these multiple thousands of people over to the front line with guns and other weapons then it’s going to eventually come out on top. 300k apparently about to join, which, let’s face it is probably actually going to be closer to 1m that have been called up. It will become too much… 

I just can’t figure out in my head how that can be repelled. Especially as much of Russias main army still remains. 

You'd rather have 100 trained men than 10,000 untrained. Untrained personnel are more of a risk and more danger than they are worth. 

In 2018, we did a corporate team building exercise where we did airsoft against 2 former SAS guys.

There was 53 of us. We lost 53:0, 47:0 and 40:0 (people dropped out as the rounds went on). 

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2022 by pas5898

[Genie]

23 minutes ago, pas5898 said:

You'd rather have 100 trained men than 10,000 untrained. Untrained personnel are more of a risk and more danger than they are worth. 

In 2018, we did a corporate team building exercise where we did airsoft against 2 former SAS guys.

There was 53 of us. We lost 53:0, 47:0 and 40:0 (people dropped out as the rounds went on). 

 

 

 

That reminded me of this gem

Gerrard and Keane v 30 8 year olds.

 

[avfc1982am]