Popular Post terrytini Posted July 9, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 9, 2017 13 minutes ago, Dave J said: No my point is Saunders and Atkinson were top managers capable of recruiting top players- Bruce is far from being a top manager in my humble opinion - but I will reiterate this, as a fan of many many years I can assure you that I can tell a player from someone who can't play - I honestly feel that this is the case for many other supporters of long standing as well and in my view Elmohamady is not a player and therefore why should I get excited about signing a player of his Calibre. It fills me with dread that Bruce is linked to his signature. I love how you think you can tell a player but think Bruce can't lol. Maybe you should be a Championship Manager ! My point is fans can have their likes and dislikes but to suggest a Manager is lacking competence because he doesn't match their assessments is, well, to put it mildly, a bit up themselves. But I've tried saying it twice, this makes three, and clearly you consider that your judgment about what Bruce needs is better than his, so I'll leave it there,,, For me, I'll have my preferences but am happy to accept Bruce knows at least as much about Elmohamady as you or anyone else lol 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, terrytini said: I love how you think you can tell a player but think Bruce can't lol. Maybe you should be a Championship Manager ! My point is fans can have their likes and dislikes but to suggest a Manager is lacking competence because he doesn't match their assessments is, well, to put it mildly, a bit up themselves. But I've tried saying it twice, this makes three, and clearly you consider that your judgment about what Bruce needs is better than his, so I'll leave it there,,, For me, I'll have my preferences but am happy to accept Bruce knows at least as much about Elmohamady as you or anyone else lol Again you are completely wrong and to suggest that fans cannot tell a player only those " on the inside" is somewhat tilted in my view. Just a question hand on heart - do you want him ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted July 9, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted July 9, 2017 11 minutes ago, Dave J said: Again you are completely wrong and to suggest that fans cannot tell a player only those " on the inside" is somewhat tilted in my view. Just a question hand on heart - do you want him ? I think @terrytini 's point was that all assessments are likely to be at least of equal value, although those with more intimate experience may have more intimate knowledge, but to claim that someone else is incompetent/deluded because their view does not match your own is wrong. He's said it several times now so I don't know why I'm bothering to reiterate it... I might go and have a beer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Junxs said: We have one senior winger at the club.. In the strictest term, yes I suppose you're right. But given we are likely to go 4-3-3 or 5-3-2, I'm not sure where out and out wingers are going to fit into that. Grealish has played his best football coming off the left flank, JK can play either side in 3 up top, then you have Adoma for the right. It's more than likely going to be a 3 in the middle of the park most times, so I can't see where two wingers are going to fit in tbh. I wouldn't mind a rapid winger, but I don't think it's a must tbh. We've got seven forward thinking players in the squad, that I think most other championship managers would give their right nut for. Edited July 9, 2017 by wazzap24 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nnock1984 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Do we need anyone else for the starting XI? Johnstone De Laet Terry Chester Taylor Lansbury Jedi Hourihane McCormack Hogan Kodjia (McCormack as the link, Hogan through the middle, Kodjia cutting in from the left.) Steer, Bree, Baker, Thor, Grealish, Adomah, Green 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 17 minutes ago, alreadyexists said: I think @terrytini 's point was that all assessments are likely to be at least of equal value, although those with more intimate experience may have more intimate knowledge, but to claim that someone else is incompetent/deluded because their view does not match your own is wrong. He's said it several times now so I don't know why I'm bothering to reiterate it... I might go and have a beer. But surely it's only the same as me knowing Rondon is not as good as Ronaldo ? Most fans know this- what's the difference in me not rating Elmohamady or anyone else for this matter- just because Bruce is our manager clearly does not make him exempt from making mistakes ? Quite the contrary given last season's debacle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 30 minutes ago, Dave J said: Again you are completely wrong and to suggest that fans cannot tell a player only those " on the inside" is somewhat tilted in my view. Just a question hand on heart - do you want him ? What on earth does " you are completely wrong " mean ? From your Posts I gather you aren't a kid, so surely accept these debates aren't a question of telling someone their view is "wrong".......although it is at least consistent with your view of knowing better than the Manager ! I have not suggested fans can't tell a player - nowhere. Don't know where you've got that from. Equally I haven't said only insiders can. What I've said is simply that whilst it's great that fans have their opinions ( because guess what, your view of Elmohamady is NOT a fact, it's just a point of view) I think it's nonsense to then say, as you did, that because the Manager doesn't share it, it's evidence of a lack of competence. Frankly I'm staggered anybody could ever be so full of themselves to think that way !! You can agree or disagree that Bruce has correctly identified what he needs, and agree or disagree with his choices in achieving that, but you can't say because his views don't match yours it shows he doesn't know what he's doing ! And thus the answer to your question is simple, I want us to get the players Bruce feels he needs. If Elmohamady is one of them then yes, 100% I want him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 8 minutes ago, nnock1984 said: Do we need anyone else for the starting XI? Johnstone De Laet Terry Chester Taylor Lansbury Jedi Hourihane McCormack Hogan Kodjia (McCormack as the link, Hogan through the middle, Kodjia cutting in from the left.) Steer, Bree, Baker, Thor, Grealish, Adomah, Green That's the team I'd pick and formation too . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Dave J said: But surely it's only the same as me knowing Rondon is not as good as Ronaldo ? Most fans know this- what's the difference in me not rating Elmohamady or anyone else for this matter- just because Bruce is our manager clearly does not make him exempt from making mistakes ? Quite the contrary given last season's debacle. No, it's not the same at all. The player in question has played in and around our top two Leagues for some time. It's not a question of whether he is as good as a superstar, but whether he is as right for Bruce's ideas for the Team as any number of other - non Superstar - players in and around those Leagues and abroad. And whether you think so or not his career is testament to the fact that he IS capable at our level. And - again - I've no issue with your rating any player as you choose. And of course Bruce makes mistakes - I've frequently stated some I think he's made. One last time, my point was that you said the mere fact that Bruce thought this player worth having, whilst you didn't, was evidence Bruce wasn't competent....when all it's evidence of is that Bruce thinks this player is what he needs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, terrytini said: What on earth does " you are completely wrong " mean ? From your Posts I gather you aren't a kid, so surely accept these debates aren't a question of telling someone their view is "wrong".......although it is at least consistent with your view of knowing better than the Manager ! I have not suggested fans can't tell a player - nowhere. Don't know where you've got that from. Equally I haven't said only insiders can. What I've said is simply that whilst it's great that fans have their opinions ( because guess what, your view of Elmohamady is NOT a fact, it's just a point of view) I think it's nonsense to then say, as you did, that because the Manager doesn't share it, it's evidence of a lack of competence. Frankly I'm staggered anybody could ever be so full of themselves to think that way !! You can agree or disagree that Bruce has correctly identified what he needs, and agree or disagree with his choices in achieving that, but you can't say because his views don't match yours it shows he doesn't know what he's doing ! And thus the answer to your question is simple, I want us to get the players Bruce feels he needs. If Elmohamady is one of them then yes, 100% I want him. Well I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree. I don't think a lot of myself and if you have read many of my posts you will see they are littered with In my view/ humble opinion and so forth- for this very same reason - I would like to set the record straight on this. i retain the right to question Bruce's signings, tactics, game plan etc - whilst respect ting yours to back him. But I'm not going to say I back Bruce's judgement on Elmohamady because frankly I don't and never will - if the Scottish kid from Hull became available then I'd do it in the drop of a hat- Robertson I believe ?- he can play wing back or orthodox winger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 Has anyone ever watched elmohaday that much? I certainly haven't but then I really only watch us these days. Too me he's just one of those you know the name of but haven't really paid any attention to, so don't really know what he would or wouldn't bring to a team. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said: Has anyone ever watched elmohaday that much? I certainly haven't but then I really only watch us these days. Too me he's just one of those you know the name of but haven't really paid any attention to, so don't really know what he would or wouldn't bring to a team. Well I reckon Steve Bruce has watched him a lot. But then, what does he know ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midfielder Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 1 minute ago, mikeyp102 said: Has anyone ever watched elmohaday that much? I certainly haven't but then I really only watch us these days. Too me he's just one of those you know the name of but haven't really paid any attention to, so don't really know what he would or wouldn't bring to a team. Exactly the same here. I know the name but not enough about him to slag him off. Was a slight bit disappointed with the link, part of me thought unambitious and "from Terry.... to Elmo, ugh" but then I thought well Bruce knows him a hundred times better than I do and how to work with him. Hardly a bank-breaking transfer in prospect and relatively low risk, minimal time to settle, knows the division and has gotten out of it. Its not like with this transfer we're signing someone for many years in first XI, he'd be coming in to do an immediate job. To get the hell out of this division this time round. What happens after who knows, squad rotation, cup games... who knows could even be a first XI grafter and be number one for some time to come. Question marks with some of our right sided players be they defenders or winger sorts, Elmo seems versatile to provide competition across a number of positions. But like Mikey says, I don't know "that" much about Elmo but I can see the logic and have faith in Tony and Bruce. Also agree with TerryTini. What's more, if this transfer is for the prices banded about in the press, leaves us with greater proportion of budget to spend in other areas. Time was, we used to sign players like Milner or Young who had their best years ahead of them and massive sell-on potential. But we have to accept both the reality of our current standing and the task ahead in getting up. Could be a hundred worse signings than Elmo, but technically he is in his prime and could have a lot to offer. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sidcow Posted July 9, 2017 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted July 9, 2017 Imagine my surprise coming into the Transfer Speculation thread and finding absolutely no transfer speculation in the hot topic thread only people criticising Bruce and arguments about who can or cannot spot a player. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, sidcow said: Imagine my surprise coming into the Transfer Speculation thread and finding absolutely no transfer speculation in the hot topic thread only people criticising Bruce and arguments about who can or cannot spot a player. The usual... I'm absolutely right because I say so and you can't deny me my opinion, so for that logic free circular reason, I'm right.. tripe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 20 minutes ago, sidcow said: Imagine my surprise coming into the Transfer Speculation thread and finding absolutely no transfer speculation in the hot topic thread only people criticising Bruce and arguments about who can or cannot spot a player. I'm more surprised that you are surprised by it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 (edited) Alan Nixon reporting that Burnley are also in for Glenn whelan (as a replacement for barton). Considering theres a fair bit of negativity towards our targets, it's surprising how many have also been linked to premier league teams. that kind of says something a little more positive about the players we're seeking to employ. Edited July 9, 2017 by theboyangel 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted July 9, 2017 Share Posted July 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Xela said: I'm more surprised that you are surprised by it! 3 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said: The usual... I'm absolutely right because I say so and you can't deny me my opinion, so for that logic free circular reason, I'm right.. tripe. Wrong. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted July 9, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted July 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, theboyangel said: Alan Nixon reporting that Burnley are also in for Glenn whelan (as a replacement for barton). Considering theres a fair bit of negativity towards our targets, it's surprising how many have also been linked to premier league teams. that kind of says something about the players we're seeking to employ. Whelan isn't exciting, but he is solid, and would add to our midfield. He has never been spectacular but we don't need spectaclular, we need solid. Look at Burnley with Barton, half decent player (awful human) but not a bad footballer and helped Burnley get promoted even at 32. He would be a decent addition to Burnley or us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Vive_La_Villa Posted July 9, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted July 9, 2017 49 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said: Has anyone ever watched elmohaday that much? I certainly haven't but then I really only watch us these days. Too me he's just one of those you know the name of but haven't really paid any attention to, so don't really know what he would or wouldn't bring to a team. The scouts on this forum have assessed him which is why they are not happy with the signing. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts