thabucks Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) Quote Yes, it's almost like it's something else that's making the fans turn on managers in double quick time. Not whether he's young, or old. Tried or untried. Granted, the results being poor is a constant but then that was always going to take time. We knew that as fans. I just can't put my finger on what is making the fans turn so quickly. Any fans know? Like this The internet & Internet forums joking aside we as a society have increasingly grown used to having the world at our fingertips, knowledge, shopping all sorts of things are but a moments click or swipe away. Technology has made things easier and quicker and our attitudes to the way we perceive time has changed as a result. We want things now and don't want to wait or in some cases put in the effort. Edited February 22, 2017 by thabucks Darn pagebreak 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 9 minutes ago, thabucks said: Well Bruce is the opposite and once again look how that has panned out? How did McCleish work out? Not cool to defend McLeish, I know, but let's not forget that a few of our best players were sold in the summer and he barely even got half that transfer money to put back in the team. Pretty sure he still, somehow, had us midtable until our 1 in 2 goalscorer went down injured. McLeish's circumstances were as hard as any manager we've had IMO. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 minute ago, kurtsimonw said: Not cool to defend McLeish, I know, but let's not forget that a few of our best players were sold in the summer and he barely even got half that transfer money to put back in the team. Pretty sure he still, somehow, had us midtable until our 1 in 2 goalscorer went down injured. McLeish's circumstances were as hard as any manager we've had IMO. True to a league extent although he knew what he was joining up for - in garde's case I think he was in worse straits as he wasn't backed at all . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Eastie said: Can a man who is tactically clueless manage to fluke 4 promotions ? I think he has made some bad mistakes but in his first 12 games he took a team it's one win in 19 to promotion winning form with 23 points in 12 games - this run of results since new year has been shocking and there are some reasons that can be given i.e. Losing kodija , jedinak etc but Bruce has also made big errors - the trigger point is not here yet for me . should he lose to derby, Bristol and Rotherham then that probably would be the trigger point but I really doubt it will happen . Tactically clueless is probably the wrong term but he cannot seem to effect games with his tactics or tactical changes. He has one default setting regardless of the formation. His run of results can't be denied however look st the opposition faced during that run. And look at the possession and pass completion stats for those games. He knew we were losing Kodija and his grand plan was to reintegrate Gabby. Jedinak at his age and being from Oz was always likely to miss games and the fact he never purchased someone as a like for like replacement is part of the reason we have been shit since Jan. Hourihane & lansbury were not the answer to that question. Good players though they are It's just not in their game to be considered replacements for Jedinak. Id rather he stayed till the summer tbh and bin him for someone apparently flavour of the month like Stam or Wagner. I don't want him here next season that's for sure regardless of what happens between now and the end of the season. Edited February 22, 2017 by thabucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 13 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: Not cool to defend McLeish, I know, but let's not forget that a few of our best players were sold in the summer and he barely even got half that transfer money to put back in the team. Pretty sure he still, somehow, had us midtable until our 1 in 2 goalscorer went down injured. McLeish's circumstances were as hard as any manager we've had IMO. He spent £9.5 million on N'Zogbia! He also played Heskey as a wide midfielder. He was someone who was tried and tested and played what I consider poor football. Just like our current lump of incumbent. We have a shared Fulham season ticket in my village so I've seen them play when not at work and when villa are away. The way they play & move the ball around, cutting teams apart with incisive passing is a mile away from the dross we get served up every single week. We have the players to play like that just not the manager. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 14 minutes ago, thabucks said: He spent £9.5 million on N'Zogbia! He also played Heskey as a wide midfielder. He was someone who was tried and tested and played what I consider poor football. Just like our current lump of incumbent. We have a shared Fulham season ticket in my village so I've seen them play when not at work and when villa are away. The way they play & move the ball around, cutting teams apart with incisive passing is a mile away from the dross we get served up every single week. We have the players to play like that just not the manager. This is a good point - the team on paper is a good one and the players have ability - also would McCormack come back into the fray next season with a new manager which could save taking a huge loss on him ? i see many positives in making the change but only if it's for the right manager and the time to attract a decent manager is generally the summer - I don't feel we will get dragged into relegation trouble and if Bruce can grab a couple of wins next week would give him to the end of the season and see where we are . However we obviously cannot continue losing games and if we don't turn it around then the trigger point may be close. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 22, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 22, 2017 58 minutes ago, thabucks said: Well Bruce is the opposite and once again look how that has panned out? How did McCleish work out? Lambert & Garde worked under a difficult set of circumstances which helped conspire against them I believe things would of turned out differently if they were afforded the same levels of finance O'Neil was. Sherwood had nothing to back his gob up. All managers are a gamble. Just depends on what route you want to take. I never wanted Bruce as he is tactically clueless and his teams never have any clear identity and he has never been renowned at developing talent. But each to ones own I guess. Don't get me wrong, I would love a young and innovative manager that gets us promoted and established us back in the prem. My point is that there are dozens of managers who are or have been considered as the next big thing. 95% of the time they're shit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 5 hours ago, Eastie said: Can a man who is tactically clueless manage to fluke 4 promotions ? I think he has made some bad mistakes but in his first 12 games he took a team it's one win in 19 to promotion winning form with 23 points in 12 games - this run of results since new year has been shocking and there are some reasons that can be given i.e. Losing kodija , jedinak etc but Bruce has also made big errors - the trigger point is not here yet for me . should he lose to derby, Bristol and Rotherham then that probably would be the trigger point but I really doubt it will happen . When have you seen him change something during the game, react to something the opposition tweak, make a substitution which you could see the logic in? Why did he wait over 10 minutes to change it on Monday after they scored the 2nd goal when it was obvious the team was just going through the motions? He will carry on changing the starting eleven until we win because it's the only thing he knows when it's exactly what he shouldn't be doing, I think he has major shortcomings in the tactics dept. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wezbid Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I do miss Tim's flying gillets but I miss Garde's common sense, trying to get us playing football and sexy voice more. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 6 hours ago, thabucks said: He spent £9.5 million on N'Zogbia! He also played Heskey as a wide midfielder. He was someone who was tried and tested and played what I consider poor football. Just like our current lump of incumbent. We have a shared Fulham season ticket in my village so I've seen them play when not at work and when villa are away. The way they play & move the ball around, cutting teams apart with incisive passing is a mile away from the dross we get served up every single week. We have the players to play like that just not the manager. Your village share a Fulham season ticket...?! lol amazing, random, but amazing, how does that even come about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 7 hours ago, BOF said: Yes, it's almost like it's something else that's making the fans turn on managers in double quick time. Not whether he's young, or old. Tried or untried. Granted, the results being poor is a constant but then that was always going to take time. We knew that as fans. I just can't put my finger on what is making the fans turn so quickly. Any fans know? a succession of crap managers with no idea how to change games are going to get fans turning quick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 5 minutes ago, Tommo_b said: Your village share a Fulham season ticket...?! lol amazing, random, but amazing, how does that even come about? It's shared by a group of us down the local pub, there's 2-3 guys who go to every game, then there another two season tickets sold match by match basis. It's near(ish) to here and is a nicer day out than going to Reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwivillan Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 6 hours ago, mykeyb said: He will carry on changing the starting eleven until we win because it's the only thing he knows when it's exactly what he shouldn't be doing, I think he has major shortcomings in the tactics dept. Understatements don't come any bigger than this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villastine Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I'm still not convinced we need to sack Bruce. However I just read that Frank De Boer is talking to Rangers! If he'd consider taking the Rangers job, he consider taking over here. He would be a fantastic appointment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyp Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Villastine said: I'm still not convinced we need to sack Bruce. However I just read that Frank De Boer is talking to Rangers! If he'd consider taking the Rangers job, he consider taking over here. He would be a fantastic appointment. Fantastic? Not so sure, the jury is still out. Did well at ajax in a league which is essentially a 2-3 team league from a competitive viewpoint. Did poorly at Inter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Claudio Ranieri? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Oh Claudio Ranieri.....oh Claudio Ranieri.... Yea that has a nice ring to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 41 minutes ago, a m ole said: Claudio Ranieri? Victim of his own success methinks. Now HE was more worthy of "time". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gompedyret Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 41 minutes ago, a m ole said: Claudio Ranieri? Got here just to find a thread similar to this one to mention his name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) It doesn't matter who it is. Anyone is a gamble as we've now discovered with Bruce, as United did with Moyes and LVG, as Chelsea did with Jose2, and as Leicester now have with Ranieri Season 2. Quite clearly 90% of successful managers ALSO require an almost accidental alchemy of other factors. That's why taking a guy with a good record elsewhere is, outside of an elite few, a complete gamble. We could just as easily pick a random Manager from League 2 and discover our own special guy. Or we could appoint Mancini or Hiddink and they turn out flops. Its almost totally guesswork and luck in my view. The only certainty is when it's not working 9/10 times it won't start working unless you replace the Manager. Spmeone said earlier it's about modern society and instant gratification. Sorry that's cobblers. It's to do with results. I'm mot impatient. I stuck with Lambert almost as long as Richard did. until about six games from the end. I stuck with RDM longer than anyone I know- wouldn't have sacked him that early. The jokers in between don't count they were appalling. People who want Bruce out simply see an overwhelming collection of factors, allied to dreadful results, that show his chance of making a success of it are clearly no MORE - since clearly he hasn't got anywhere yet- and almost certainly LESS than any new guy. Edited February 24, 2017 by terrytini 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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