A'Villan Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Hogan enjoyed a good haul of 17 goals in League Two before being recruited by Brentford. From there he scored 7 in 7 appearances in his first season, and then one for every other game in his second season, in which he play 20-30 fixtures. That is what he has to show for as a professional footballer. For me, what it shows is that he can be an effective asset at this level. So not quite the poor player that @Stevo985 makes him out to be. He has shown to be an effective and consistent goalscorer in both League Two and the Championship. However he was not worth the money we paid for him, regardless of whether or not he has been redundant due to an incompatible system or not. Kodjia is the far superior player in my opinion. On his day, he could pass for a Premier League striker. He can make things happen just by putting the ball in his vicinity. I can't say that for Hogan. I would not have any objections to Smith playing whoever gets us the win. If I were coach it would be Abraham and Kodjia ahead of Hogan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Hogan needs other players to feed off, he needs the ball in front of him, crosses played in at pace during counter attacks - all things we didn't do under Bruce. He is a competent finisher who could do a job. Kodjia has far more in his arsenal in terms of individual skills and ability to pull the rabbit out of a hat, but he operates in isolation and rarely passes, he needs to be the focal point and again we under Bruce have never played at a pace that really gets the best out of him. Ponderous attacks that involve a hundred crosses to no one when all the team you are attacking are back defending, or you lump it forward to no one - don't work for him either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted October 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 11, 2018 He might end up getting 20 goals this season now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 11, 2018 36 minutes ago, A'Villan said: So not quite the poor player that @Stevo985 makes him out to be. He has shown to be an effective and consistent goalscorer in both League Two and the Championship. However he was not worth the money we paid for him, regardless of whether or not he has been redundant due to an incompatible system or not. He has been poor for Aston Villa. I don't think that's up for debate is it? You say he's been an effective and consistent goalscorer... but he's had two seasons where he has scored a lot of goals. And one of those seasons was in league 2. It's not impossible that he could do it again, but being a consistent goalscorer is the exception in his career so far. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 43 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: He has been poor for Aston Villa. I don't think that's up for debate is it? You say he's been an effective and consistent goalscorer... but he's had two seasons where he has scored a lot of goals. And one of those seasons was in league 2. It's not impossible that he could do it again, but being a consistent goalscorer is the exception in his career so far. No arguments from me. I think there was a brief spell of games where he was called upon and he scored a few for us. But I struggle to recall any moments of significance for him in a Villa shirt. I suppose I called him consistent because apart from his time at Villa, he has a record of a goal every second game over three seasons, two of which he played most of. Admittedly I don't know League Two at all, but I play in Australia's third tier in basketball and am familiar with the standards between divisions in that sense. Seeing as there is relegation and promotion, like there is here, I will assume that 17 goals in League 2 is still a commendable effort when backed up with his record in the championship. Until of course he came to us. Honestly though, mate. There's a part of me that's with you. Aside from his goal stats and being recruited by a side who chose him to fit a system they employed, I haven't seen much evidence of a player who has a lot going for him or will trouble our opposition. Definitely not displacing Kodjia or Abraham for me at this stage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 He's been shit. I have seen nothing in him, but as he says himself he was playing in some crazy shit system for his strengths. It's a fresh start for many people. If he gets the chance he'll have to take it like everyone else. Good luck to him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted October 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, praisedmambo said: He's been shit. I have seen nothing in him, but as he says himself he was playing in some crazy shit system for his strengths. It's a fresh start for many people. If he gets the chance he'll have to take it like everyone else. Good luck to him though. He has shown a good little run for us, which coincided with our best football after christmas. He was then rewarded with not playing anymore and we went back to smacking it at a hapless front man with their back to goal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 I have seen goalscorers go on bad runs where the rest of their play looks convincing and its just a matter of time. I don't see that in Scott....I see some unconvincing support play to his goalscoring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 1 hour ago, romavillan said: He has shown a good little run for us, which coincided with our best football after christmas. He was then rewarded with not playing anymore and we went back to smacking it at a hapless front man with their back to goal. He was awful and tapped it in about three times. He went back to not scoring and better players replaced him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 I wouldn’t write him off, Dean Smith got the best out of him at Brentford and hopefully he can do the same here, Hogan was excellent for Brentford Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DCJonah Posted October 11, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2018 If dean smith can get the best out of players. Would it not be better to get the best out of our best players? Because Hogan is not one of them. I'm more excited about how kodjia, abraham, grealish and our wide players will benefit. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREAT_BEARD_OF_ZEUS Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 I think frustration was the biggest cause of his downfall. Frustration with the situation he was in to begin with, which then gave way to frustration with himself. If you're not playing in a system which suits you, or players don't pass to you, or you just don't get a run of luck, the effects can soon mount up. You lose confidence sure, but you also begin to lose belief... belief that the next goal will come, belief that the next pass will come your way. Example: You make 9 runs into the box that come to nothing and then the 10th time, the time you don't run, it's the one where it rolls free into the space you would have been in. The frustration kills you! The next game you give up those runs a little earlier, the game after that earlier still and then it's those chances which got away which stick in your mind and sap away at you. You could see that frustration in his face all the time towards the end of his playing time under Bruce. And the less minutes he got each week, the worse it made to the point where he probably needed a long lay off to reset himself, reset his brain. DS coming in now, at a point where Scott is now fit again and raring to go, it couldn't have been timed any better for him. Smith plays a style of football which seems to benefit strikers like Hogan, just look at Neil Maupay's success this season - IMO they're similar players. I think he will look a different player in no time - but if he doesn't then he can't have any excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, DCJonah said: If dean smith can get the best out of players. Would it not be better to get the best out of our best players? Because Hogan is not one of them. I'm more excited about how kodjia, abraham, grealish and our wide players will benefit. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 Our new boss will know the type of service that Scott needs and if he gets that but still fails to do the business he will be well placed to tell him what he did previously that he's not doing now. If he still doesn't produce the goods then he won't have a leg to stand on but until we reach that point he deserves the opportunity to make a fresh start and a chance to prove his doubters wrong. Let's hope he can. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 48 minutes ago, John said: Our new boss will know the type of service that Scott needs and if he gets that but still fails to do the business he will be well placed to tell him what he did previously that he's not doing now. If he still doesn't produce the goods then he won't have a leg to stand on but until we reach that point he deserves the opportunity to make a fresh start and a chance to prove his doubters wrong. Let's hope he can. Over who though? Because if you say he deserves a chance then that stops others having their chance, as we can only play with 1 or 2 strikers. What about davis and rhm? Do they deserve the chance? Kodjia and abraham certainly do. Hogan should be near the bottom of the pecking order and will have to wait for something to happen which presents him with a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted October 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 11, 2018 I wouldn’t expect him to be starting before Tammy or Kodjia at the moment, they’re both too good and too dangerous. Hogan will get his chance but I think it’s likely to be off the bench to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreadyexists Posted October 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) . Edited October 11, 2018 by alreadyexists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted October 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) I don't really know why we have to choose Hogan over other strikers. It's a long season, players will naturally go in and out of form throughout it. Having a manager who has history of getting goals out of Hogan can only be a benefit to this football club. Is he instantly going to come in and replace Kodja / Abraham? Of course not. But that doesn't mean Smith can't get more out of him than Bruce did. I don't care how much people think the argument that Hogan wasn't performing well because of Bruce's system is unfounded, it absolutely mattered. Bruce was all about individual moments from individual players, rather than an actual team game. Hogan was never going to thrive in that system. Let's create a new system which can get all our strikers scoring, without the need for individual brilliance. Edited October 11, 2018 by PieFacE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted October 11, 2018 Share Posted October 11, 2018 4 hours ago, romavillan said: He has shown a good little run for us, which coincided with our best football after christmas. He was then rewarded with not playing anymore and we went back to smacking it at a hapless front man with their back to goal. Yes, there's no downside to this. If Smith can get him performing, we have an option, if not, we are where we are now, no worse off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted October 11, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted October 11, 2018 Just now, peterms said: Yes, there's no downside to this. If Smith can get him performing, we have an option, if not, we are where we are now, no worse off. Totally, the more options we have the better, playing sat, tues, sat, it'd be a good idea to be rotating the squad and picking teams and system based on the best way to beat the opposition that game. Smith is adaptable in that way so having already got the best out of Hogan once he should know how best to use him now. I bet it won't be isolating him against 4 defenders 50 yards from teh his nearest teammates who occasionally punt it in his general direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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