Scott Hogan

[Junxs]

9 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Looked like an absolute bag of shite when he came on for Ireland.

He tried to cross the ball, it went about 30 yards over the bar, that's the Hogan I know.

That was actually Shane Long not Hogan

Edit: actually you be right, the one i was thinking of was from the right hand side from Long. 

Quote

21:33

 

REP OF IRELAND 0-1 WALES

89: Long does well to win the ball and then play down the left channel for Hogan, whose cross into the middle is poor and actually goes behind for a goal-kick.

 

Edited October 17, 2018 by Junxs

[flashingqwerty]

4 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I don't think he'll play enough to score 20 goals.

He's not a patch on either Kodjia or Abraham. They'll be our first choice and Hogan will get a chance when we need to rotate.

I'd honestly have RHM ahead of Hogan too.

Based on what exactly?

One has played and scored a lot of goals at this level, the other has been fit for about 6 gamesin 3 seasons

[Killeen30]

6 hours ago, DCJonah said:

What would it do to whoever is dropped?

Well firstly different players would react in s different manner. However if it were me I’d get my head down and try harder, and I’d hope any player dropped from the first eleven would do the same.

[Demitri_C]

9 hours ago, Junxs said:

That was actually Shane Long not Hogan

Edit: actually you be right, the one i was thinking of was from the right hand side from Long. 

 

Guys give the guy a break he hasn't played one game all season for us. No patience!

Edited October 18, 2018 by Demitri_C

[Stevo985]

12 hours ago, Johnnyp said:

At villa yes i agree. But he's scored loads at the club our new manager was at. Smith won't play young fellas for the sake of it either. RHM will benefit greatly from Smith's coaching but he needs to start showing more too on his end.

I'm not sure how long Hogan can ride the wave of that one 30 game spell at Brentford. Having the manager he had during that time will show us whether that was a flash in the pan or his actual ability. Considering that is his only real spell of quality in his career to date I suspect it'll be the former. But I'll be pleasantly surprised if he returns to that. We need it.

12 hours ago, Keener window-cleaner said:

Since scoring 21 goals in 33 apps I'd say. 

So one 30 game spell in a 10 year career to date is enough to be terrific? I remember players like Marlon Harewood or Roque Santa Cruz or Afonso Alves having similar flashes in their careers.

But ok. I hope you're right!

11 hours ago, flashingqwerty said:

Based on what exactly?

One has played and scored a lot of goals at this level, the other has been fit for about 6 gamesin 3 seasons

At Aston Villa they are both in the frame for how good they could be. I'd rather give RHM the game time as a fringe player and bring him through than waste it on somebody who i consider to be a pretty shit player.

If Smith turns Hogan around and turns him back into the player he was for that short spell at Brentford then obviously my opinion on that would change.

But based on what I've seen in an Aston Villa shirt, Scott Hogan looks crap whilst RHM is a youth prospect with a potentially bright future.

Edited October 18, 2018 by Stevo985

[weedman]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I'm not sure how long Hogan can ride the wave of that one 30 game spell at Brentford. Having the manager he had during that time will show us whether that was a flash in the pan or his actual ability. Considering that is his only real spell of quality in his career to date I suspect it'll be the former. But I'll be pleasantly surprised if he returns to that. We need it.

So one 30 game spell in a 10 year career to date is enough to be terrific? I remember players like Marlon Harewood or Roque Santa Cruz or Afonso Alves having similar flashes in their careers.

But ok. I hope you're right!

At Aston Villa they are both in the frame for how good they could be. I'd rather give RHM the game time as a fringe player and bring him through than waste it on somebody who i consider to be a pretty shit player.

If Smith turns Hogan around and turns him back into the player he was for that short spell at Brentford then obviously my opinion on that would change.

But based on what I've seen in an Aston Villa shirt, Scott Hogan looks crap whilst RHM is a youth prospect with a potentially bright future.

I normally agree with you Stevo, but can't agree on RHM, I think Hogan (although he has been poor) has shown much more. I really don't see what the fuss is about RHM, I know he's young, and obviously I hope he proves me wrong and stars for us, but for me he's not shown a quarter of what the likes of Gabby showed at a similar age, even players like Luke Moore and Nathan Delfouneso showed more than RHM has so far 

I don't particularly rate Hogan either, but for me he's 3rd choice behind Kodjia and Abraham and RHM is a distant 4th choice 

[DCJonah]

11 hours ago, Killeen30 said:

Well firstly different players would react in s different manner. However if it were me I’d get my head down and try harder, and I’d hope any player dropped from the first eleven would do the same.

Excellent. So lets hope our quality players, who have been scoring goals and dropped for no reason, react well, while we give a completely underserved start to Hogan. 

Should do wonders for team morale. 

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, weedman said:

I normally agree with you Stevo, but can't agree on RHM, I think Hogan (although he has been poor) has shown much more. I really don't see what the fuss is about RHM, I know he's young, and obviously I hope he proves me wrong and stars for us, but for me he's not shown a quarter of what the likes of Gabby showed at a similar age, even players like Luke Moore and Nathan Delfouneso showed more than RHM has so far 

I don't particularly rate Hogan either, but for me he's 3rd choice behind Kodjia and Abraham and RHM is a distant 4th choice 

Fair enough, each to their own. Maybe I'm being harsh on Hogan. As I said, the next few months will tell us as he'll no longer have the "system doesn't suit him" or "Bruce" excuses to fall back on.

[Killeen30]

13 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Excellent. So lets hope our quality players, who have been scoring goals and dropped for no reason, react well, while we give a completely underserved start to Hogan. 

Should do wonders for team morale. 

I am not saying that Abraham or Jimmy deserve to be dropped. Not at all. I just think if Hogan does get a start soon it will do wonders for his confidence, what with his history of scoring goals in a DS side. 

We have three games in a week coming up so he will start at some point. Whether or not you like it.

On a side note, I am of the opinion that Jimmy has been nowhere near his best since returning from injury. So it’s not like he is firing on all cylinders.

My opinion is that Hogan will score a few goals soon and then peoples opinion will change slightly.

[Junxs]

10 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Guys give the guy a break he hasn't played one game all season for us. No patience!

Don't know why you quoted me, I was trying to stick up for him and have been since he joined

[Demitri_C]

6 minutes ago, Junxs said:

Don't know why you quoted me, I was trying to stick up for him and have been since he joined

I did a Dem and quoted wrong person soz 

[bobzy]

9 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I'm not sure how long Hogan can ride the wave of that one 30 game spell at Brentford. Having the manager he had during that time will show us whether that was a flash in the pan or his actual ability. Considering that is his only real spell of quality in his career to date I suspect it'll be the former. But I'll be pleasantly surprised if he returns to that. We need it.

So one 30 game spell in a 10 year career to date is enough to be terrific? I remember players like Marlon Harewood or Roque Santa Cruz or Afonso Alves having similar flashes in their careers.

But ok. I hope you're right!

There's having an opinion on a player and then just making up stuff.

He signed for Rochdale from non league in, what, 2012?  So he's been a professional for 6 years (10 year career?) during which, he's been a 1 in 3 striker - that's including his entire time at Aston Villa (one 30 game spell was good?).  Looking at his goals scored generally, most of them involve him hanging on the shoulder of the last defender and getting a quick ball into him to finish.  I can't remember the last time we played that way and it may well be why he has struggled at the club.

Fine, you don't rate him and would rather give Hepburn-Murphy a chance.  However, you don't need to validate that with made up stuff.  It's as bad as the over-exaggerated stuff that was thrown at Bruce.

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, bobzy said:

There's having an opinion on a player and then just making up stuff.

He signed for Rochdale from non league in, what, 2012?  So he's been a professional for 6 years (10 year career?) during which, he's been a 1 in 3 striker - that's including his entire time at Aston Villa (one 30 game spell was good?).  Looking at his goals scored generally, most of them involve him hanging on the shoulder of the last defender and getting a quick ball into him to finish.  I can't remember the last time we played that way and it may well be why he has struggled at the club.

Fine, you don't rate him and would rather give Hepburn-Murphy a chance.  However, you don't need to validate that with made up stuff.  It's as bad as the over-exaggerated stuff that was thrown at Bruce.

well, If he doesn't do it with this ( his previous)manager.....I would safely say it was a purple patch.....we'll soon get to find out.

I hope he does come good.

[Stevo985]

1 hour ago, bobzy said:

There's having an opinion on a player and then just making up stuff.

He signed for Rochdale from non league in, what, 2012?  So he's been a professional for 6 years (10 year career?) during which, he's been a 1 in 3 striker - that's including his entire time at Aston Villa (one 30 game spell was good?).  Looking at his goals scored generally, most of them involve him hanging on the shoulder of the last defender and getting a quick ball into him to finish.  I can't remember the last time we played that way and it may well be why he has struggled at the club.

Fine, you don't rate him and would rather give Hepburn-Murphy a chance.  However, you don't need to validate that with made up stuff.  It's as bad as the over-exaggerated stuff that was thrown at Bruce.

I'm confused as to what part I've made up?

[bobzy]

5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I'm confused as to what part I've made up?

Him having a 10 year career and also only having one 30 game spell of being good - although noted that you very specifically mention Brentford, so maybe you're just simultaneously exaggerating and shrinking his career to suit.  Who knows. 

[Stevo985]

3 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Him having a 10 year career and also only having one 30 game spell of being good - although noted that you very specifically mention Brentford, so maybe you're just simultaneously exaggerating and shrinking his career to suit.  Who knows. 

Ah ok. Yeah the 10 year career, my bad. I thought he was 28 so was just making a guess that he started about 18. I should have looked it up. "Made up" is a bit harsh.

Nothing else is wrong though. It's just my opinion. Yes he's had one good spell in his career. 30 odd games at Brentford. The post I was referring to called him a "terrific" striker. I don't think that's good enough to call him terrific. Even if you consider his earlier years as "good", I'd certainly argue they don't make him terrific.

[Keener window-cleaner]

11 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

So one 30 game spell in a 10 year career to date is enough to be terrific? I remember players like Marlon Harewood or Roque Santa Cruz or Afonso Alves having similar flashes in their careers.

But ok. I hope you're right!

I understand what you mean, though I think he has showed that he can score goals regularly also before that spell (albeit on a lower level). I think I'm just still having hope that he can be the good striker that he in spells has proven he can be. And I don't think he is shit.

Having said that, I still rate Abraham and Kodjia over Hogan, and with his injury record I'm not too confident that he will actually have the possibility to prove that he can be a terrific striker on this level. And as I said before, the Hogan/Bent type of striker, the poacher, is not my prefered kind of striker as they demand that other create chances for them. Abraham and Kodjia has a better ability to make goals out of nothing by themselves. With Dean Smith there is anyways a possibility that Hogan can come good and score goals, as compared to the last 1,5 seasons.

[Keener window-cleaner]

4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Nothing else is wrong though. It's just my opinion. Yes he's had one good spell in his career. 30 odd games at Brentford. The post I was referring to called him a "terrific" striker. I don't think that's good enough to call him terrific. Even if you consider his earlier years as "good", I'd certainly argue they don't make him terrific.

I'd say scoring 21 in 33 in the Championship would make him a terrific striker in the Championship. Scoring a couple in different circumstances during the next 30 makes it hard to rate him, currently obviously not terrific, but still with the potential of again being terrific.  

[terrytini]

I spent the first dozen or so games convinced he was ‘ making great runs’ and was poorly serviced.

Whilst the former was occasionally true, and the latter certainly so, it turns out that he was, basically, crap.

Id be delighted if Smith gets something out of him, but barring major injuries would be disappointed if he gets the chance.

 

[bobzy]

4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Ah ok. Yeah the 10 year career, my bad. I thought he was 28 so was just making a guess that he started about 18. I should have looked it up. "Made up" is a bit harsh.

Nothing else is wrong though. It's just my opinion. Yes he's had one good spell in his career. 30 odd games at Brentford. The post I was referring to called him a "terrific" striker. I don't think that's good enough to call him terrific. Even if you consider his earlier years as "good", I'd certainly argue they don't make him terrific.

I've looked - he turned professional in 2013 (aged 21) and since then has hit 17 goals in 33 for Rochdale (good 30 game spell), 21 in 33 for Brentford (better 30 game spell) and then 7 in 50 for us (very poor 30 game spell).  The clear outlier is his time at Villa - but for over half his time as a professional footballer, he's been better than 1 in 2.  That isn't just one good spell.  I don't know what is considered "terrific".  I'd have considered Christian Benteke terrific for us, but his record isn't as good as Hogan's before he came here (granted, here is obviously his poor spell).

Who knows whether injuries have ruined him.  I only hope he gets his spark back as he, Kodjia and Abraham is potentially the strongest attack in the league by a mile.