Conor Hourihane

[Keyblade]

I'd play him against Brighton and unless he has a stormer I'd bring in Luiz against his former club the following week. I do not want to see Conor eaten alive by Manchester City.

[KenjiOgiwara]

Wouldn't you think Luiz had a point to prove to City? 

[New_Hope]

37 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Wouldn't you think Luiz had a point to prove to City? 

Yeah.....and hopefully not a 'come and get me' point to prove

[villalad21]

7 hours ago, Keyblade said:

I'd play him against Brighton and unless he has a stormer I'd bring in Luiz against his former club the following week. I do not want to see Conor eaten alive by Manchester City.

It's not like Man City got many powerful, physical players that will bully him...

Think Hourihane would do just fine.

[Hitzlsperger_12]

He's really impressed me in the limited game time he's had this season, we seem more complete with him and Targett in the starting line up.

He'll be keeping his place for the Brighton game imo, I'd imagine barring any injuries it will be the same 11 that start.

[TRO]

12 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

For a player like him it is hard to contribute when we are not playing well. He will contribute with set pieces but he isn't going to create for himself or get himself in to a position to play a player in on goal. He needs help and that will be down to Grealish, mcginn and El Ghazi. If we are playing poorly it won't be conors fault. He works hard defensively and puts a shift in. He isn't some kind of magical player who will be able to win us a game by himself but he will get you goals, assists and win you penalties. That is all you can recall ask for from your 4th best midfielder on the pitch.

The main question is whether the goals the assists and the set piece delivery is more important than Luiz's overall play and I would say yes. Luiz is a fusion of Grealish and mcginn but is currently not as good as either of them. When he is in the team he doesn't offer anything either of them can't do, except for top quality long range shots which hourihane will score more of anyway. I think hourihane will be more important until Jack and mcginn can add what each other is lacking goals for Grealish and assists for mcginn. Obviously Luiz has to be able to do both but less than conor to usurp him if that is the case. It can only really be a good thing to have 3 prem quality players competing for 1 spot. Either way let the games begin! 

Its all about balance.....all our players have varying attributes, but that is exactly what we want.

with form variations, suspensions and injuries....it only goes to strengthen the squad, which is key.

[Philosopher]

Firstly Luiz is nothing like McGinn, or Grealish.  He is a sitter who can shoot from range and likes to spray the ball around the pitch.

Playing more defensive players like Luiz over Hourihane won't work. It just allows City to get more bodies forward and gives the less to think about defensively, and If city have a weakness it's in defense.

We will need to get the ball forward quickly, isolate their defenders and put them in one on one situations. Pace terrifies them (with the exception of Walker), so Trezguet over El-Ghazi for me. They all are a smallish team, so Hourihane's delivery could also be effective. Might even switch to a diamond to get Trezguet in a position to exploit his pace even more, reign in McGinn (less forward runs) and play Jack at the head of the diamond.

[MotoMkali]

4 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

Firstly Luiz is nothing like McGinn, or Grealish.  He is a sitter who can shoot from range and likes to spray the ball around the pitch.

Playing more defensive players like Luiz over Hourihane won't work. It just allows City to get more bodies forward and gives the less to think about defensively, and If city have a weakness it's in defense.

We will need to get the ball forward quickly, isolate their defenders and put them in one on one situations. Pace terrifies them (with the exception of Walker), so Trezguet over El-Ghazi for me. They all are a smallish team, so Hourihane's delivery could also be effective. Might even switch to a diamond to get Trezguet in a position to exploit his pace even more, reign in McGinn (less forward runs) and play Jack at the head of the diamond.

Disagree with your analysis of Luiz. From what I have seen his skill set is a fusion of Grealish and mcginns. The passing of Jack and the ball winning and shooting of mcginn. He just isn't quite as good at any of it as them. But he is a lot more well rounded than either of them. The best players are all specialists in 2 or more aspects of the game. Luiz is not a specialist though. It is why he has so much boom or bust potential though. 

[Delphinho123]

The Hourihane, Targett, Grealish axis on the left side isn’t to be messed with. It’s working extremely well. It allows Grealish to play further forward where he is more dangerous and when he drifts in, Hourihane covers down the left. Targett is acting as the perfect foil, dragging the full back away from Grealish which allows him more space and time to cut inside where it is only a matter of time before he bends one into the top corner. 
Hourihane may not be as good as Luiz, but it’s a team game and something looks to have clicked with this formation. Leave as is for now. 

[villalad21]

Jack of all trades master of none so far.

Still very early though. Too early to judge

[lexicon]

1 minute ago, villalad21 said:

Jack of all trades master of none so far.

Still very early though. Too early to judge

I don't think you understand what that expression means.

[Dave-R]

Conor doesn't half make a good argument for him to be picked.

With us moving Jack over to the left wing position, like a false winger and a fantastic idea, it does give us the ability to use Ghazi, Trezeguet and Jota on one wing, all while we can bring more midfielders on, we should now easy be able to utilise Nakamba, Hourihane, Grealish, Mcginn and Luiz.

I do think we need to get Hause into the mix, have him sub for Target for me really is a no brainer.

Hourihane though, it's tough to see who has the magic foot, him or Luiz because they do look like they are competing to see who scores best top corner job lol.

[villalad21]

10 minutes ago, lexicon said:

I don't think you understand what that expression means.

It was meant for Luiz. Wrong thread

[TRO]

43 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

It was meant for Luiz. Wrong thread

3 x Hail Mary's.

Edited October 9, 2019 by TRO

[Philosopher]

3 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

Disagree with your analysis of Luiz. From what I have seen his skill set is a fusion of Grealish and mcginns. The passing of Jack and the ball winning and shooting of mcginn. He just isn't quite as good at any of it as them. But he is a lot more well rounded than either of them. The best players are all specialists in 2 or more aspects of the game. Luiz is not a specialist though. It is why he has so much boom or bust potential though. 

He sits in front of the back four, where as McGinn works box to box, he shoots from range not in the box, in fact I have never seen Luiz in the box.  McGinn is always making a beeline for the 18 yard box. They both get stuck into a tackle, and are good at retaining possession under pressure. Very different styles. One is covering more of pitch in a very swashbuckling style. The other never gets ahead of the ball. They both shoot from distance but Luiz caresses the ball and is far more accurate, so better. Luiz is a better version of Conor Hourihane, when Conor Hourihane is played in the holding role (Conor Hourihane's best role  is box to box).

Jack plays much higher up the pitch dribbles  a lot gets in the box, and takes up positions on the left. Luiz stays central in front of the back four. The 'only similarity is they both pass the ball well. But even that is different as jack primarily passes short and forward. Luiz passes short sideways and play lots of long passes in comparison.

Your comparison is like comparing apples and oranges. They are both sweet and fruity so they are similar. Problem is it ignores so many other facets.

The great thing about our midfielders is they are all different types of players with lots to offer. This giving us lots of options and possibilities.

[barry'sboots]

Not much consideration for Henry in this thread.  I would have him ahead of CH in games where we are likely to come under the cosh a bit.  He has more energy, drive and aggression and also has a goal in him.  Not sure about Dougie L as yet as we haven't seen enough of him playing as an "8".

When we have the ball CH is a goal threat, when we don't have the ball he doesn't do enough for an "8" for me.

[MotoMkali]

1 hour ago, Philosopher said:

He sits in front of the back four, where as McGinn works box to box, he shoots from range not in the box, in fact I have never seen Luiz in the box.  McGinn is always making a beeline for the 18 yard box. They both get stuck into a tackle, and are good at retaining possession under pressure. Very different styles. One is covering more of pitch in a very swashbuckling style. The other never gets ahead of the ball. They both shoot from distance but Luiz caresses the ball and is far more accurate, so better. Luiz is a better version of Conor Hourihane, when Conor Hourihane is played in the holding role (Conor Hourihane's best role  is box to box).

Jack plays much higher up the pitch dribbles  a lot gets in the box, and takes up positions on the left. Luiz stays central in front of the back four. The 'only similarity is they both pass the ball well. But even that is different as jack primarily passes short and forward. Luiz passes short sideways and play lots of long passes in comparison.

Your comparison is like comparing apples and oranges. They are both sweet and fruity so they are similar. Problem is it ignores so many other facets.

The great thing about our midfielders is they are all different types of players with lots to offer. This giving us lots of options and possibilities.

We have only seen Luiz in a defensive role. As others have pointed out he is clearly a box to box player. On top of that he clearly has the dribbling skill which Grealish and mcginn has he just does not utilise it as a effectively. Grealish uses his to.draw players in and play a killer pass and mcginn uses his to create a shot for himself. I have seen Luiz have some great moments of skill but not really do much with it.

 

When i said mcginn is better at shooting I was including the full package including from inside the box which I think Luiz would also be good at because of the skill he has and the power he generates. Another key similarity with John is they are both shit at positioning themselves to receive a pass from a teammate. 

Compared to Jack they both play a lot of short sideways passes and they both play lots of long balls especially to switch the play. Reading your description of Jack's game makes me think you don't watch him much. Yes Luiz is not at the level where he has it wrapped up in a nice little package like John or Jack but he clearly is very similar in style of play to both of them. I think the dream is he becomes debruyne but with better defense and dribbling (which I believe is de bruynes largest weakness/something he isn't outstanding at)

[Kiwivillan]

Often said I only rate Hourihane in attacking role and don't want him near the back 4. Seeing as Trez looks out of his depth in this league I'm quite happy for Hourihane to start as per last 2 games

[Delphinho123]

37 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

Often said I only rate Hourihane in attacking role and don't want him near the back 4. Seeing as Trez looks out of his depth in this league I'm quite happy for Hourihane to start as per last 2 games

That’s perhaps a little harsh on Trez. For me, it’s his fitness that lets him down. I’ve seen enough of him to think there is a decent player in there. I’d like to see him start over el Ghazi if he can last longer than 60 mins! 

[Philosopher]

9 hours ago, MotoMkali said:

We have only seen Luiz in a defensive role. As others have pointed out he is clearly a box to box player. On top of that he clearly has the dribbling skill which Grealish and mcginn has he just does not utilise it as a effectively. Grealish uses his to.draw players in and play a killer pass and mcginn uses his to create a shot for himself. I have seen Luiz have some great moments of skill but not really do much with it.

 

When i said mcginn is better at shooting I was including the full package including from inside the box which I think Luiz would also be good at because of the skill he has and the power he generates. Another key similarity with John is they are both shit at positioning themselves to receive a pass from a teammate. 

Compared to Jack they both play a lot of short sideways passes and they both play lots of long balls especially to switch the play. Reading your description of Jack's game makes me think you don't watch him much. Yes Luiz is not at the level where he has it wrapped up in a nice little package like John or Jack but he clearly is very similar in style of play to both of them. I think the dream is he becomes debruyne but with better defense and dribbling (which I believe is de bruynes largest weakness/something he isn't outstanding at)

We will just have to agree to disagree, because I believe you are way off here with your analysis. For example your reason for Luiz not being as good a box to box midfield is the reason why he's NOT a box to box midfield as work rate, movement and tenacity are essential to a box to box midfielder.  Jack style is very different to John's as Jack is a playmaker, he use skill, technique, and intelligence as his main weapons. John is about energy, movement and tenacity. The only similarity is they both get in the box, both can dribble and both are hard to dispossess. But even their similarities are done in a different way.

All three players are very different. John's talent are best suited to be a proper central midfielder.  Jack's to an advanced playmaker, and Luiz to a deep lying playmaker.