WakefieldVillan Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 3 hours ago, villalad21 said: Conor could be effective against Newcastle. They are the type of team that will sit back and let you have the ball. Well back in November when we beat them 2-0 he got the opener (no surprise from a set-piece) and behind Grealish (shock) he was the best player on the park so arguably you could be right. If we're going on his performance against Chelsea though, no way should he keep his shirt. But that's the thing with Conor and most of our midfielders, they have 1 good game in about 7. In hindsight he shouldn't have played against Chelsea (should have been Nakamba) but I think Smith saw a decent performance against the blades and thought he deserved to start next time out - I actually agreed. We were BOTH wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 8 minutes ago, WakefieldVillan said: Well back in November when we beat them 2-0 he got the opener (no surprise from a set-piece) and behind Grealish (shock) he was the best player on the park so arguably you could be right. If we're going on his performance against Chelsea though, no way should he keep his shirt. But that's the thing with Conor and most of our midfielders, they have 1 good game in about 7. In hindsight he shouldn't have played against Chelsea (should have been Nakamba) but I think Smith saw a decent performance against the blades and thought he deserved to start next time out - I actually agreed. We were BOTH wrong. I wonder if Newcastle will be as passive as they were at VP. But i got to say i worry about the prospect of Saint Maximin coming up against Matt Targett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 3 hours ago, TRO said: McGinn is going nowhere playing like that. his current form is a shadow of SJM. The only one to escape this situation is Jack.....and if he continues playing like that his move will be scuppered by doubting suitors too.....Mount completely upstaged him. Well that's good news for us then as we know Mings and McGinn are top quality in championship. Ultimately though clubs will have scouted them for a while and think they can get them for reduced fees as indeed clubs did in 2016 for our foreign crop. Did you expect Veretout, Gana, Amavi and Adama all to be playing in cl/europa 2-3 years later TRO? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Apart from set pieces Connor offers little at this level , squad player at best 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Eastie said: Apart from set pieces Connor offers little at this level , squad player at best His link up play is decent when we dominate the ball. Only problem is we don't do that for about 80 % of the games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 2 minutes ago, villalad21 said: I wonder if Newcastle will be as passive as they were at VP. But i got to say i worry about the prospect of Saint Maximin coming up against Matt Targett. Newcastle don't really press which is rare for a top level team. At VP they had Shelvey who's a decent ball player but not someone with much mobility who just stands off midfielders and Issac Hayden who I think is just a bog standard DM, both played yesterday. Might be different if one of the Longstaffs play but seems they're both injured. When you look at our best performances of the season they've tended to come against central midfields that don't have much athleticism in it. Everton in game 3 had Gomes and Schnderlein. We played well home and away against Burnley with likes of Westwood and Newcastle as mentioned. However look at how bad we were home and away against Southampton who press manically in central midfield. I really don't think it's a co-incidence and it's something Hourihane especially can't cope with. Think back to the difference in performances in the home leg v Boro in 2018 and then final v Fulham. He struggled in the championship aswell so you need athletic players either side of him. Fully fit McGinn is one but we've struggled for another all season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 3 minutes ago, villalad21 said: His link up play is decent when we dominate the ball. Only problem is we don't do that for about 80 % of the games. and part of that problem is his play. He disappears in games for large portions. We can all be great when we dominate the ball, he needs to help dominate the ball so it allows him to play. Cant dominate the play if one of your players disappears for most of the game and he cant play unless you are on top, so he's the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Just now, nick76 said: and part of that problem is his play. He disappears in games for large portions. We can all be great when we dominate the ball, he needs to help dominate the ball so it allows him to play. Cant dominate the play if one of your players disappears for most of the game and he cant play unless you are on top, so he's the problem. But we aren't dominating anyone in the games he aren't playing either. Conor will always be the scapegoat. We have tried every midfield combination this season and it doesn't seem to make a difference, which indicates there may be a problem with the coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 It wasn't hindsight to know that Conor would not be an asset against a team like Chelsea that dominates the ball. Nakamba was the right choice to start and anyone with a footballing brain should have known that. Aside from the decision to play him, the decisions to keep him on the pitch after we took the lead undeservedly, and after we conceded a goal, were even more bewildering. We were being massively overrun thanks to Conors passive play. Admittedly on this occasion, McGinn was having a mare too, but I am truly lost when it comes to justifying Smith's decisions against Chelsea. It sets up an issue that the game Conor should possibly start in (Newcastle) comes off a poor performance and result that will impact his confidence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WakefieldVillan Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 1 hour ago, MrBlack said: It wasn't hindsight to know that Conor would not be an asset against a team like Chelsea that dominates the ball. Nakamba was the right choice to start and anyone with a footballing brain should have known that. Aside from the decision to play him, the decisions to keep him on the pitch after we took the lead undeservedly, and after we conceded a goal, were even more bewildering. We were being massively overrun thanks to Conors passive play. Admittedly on this occasion, McGinn was having a mare too, but I am truly lost when it comes to justifying Smith's decisions against Chelsea. It sets up an issue that the game Conor should possibly start in (Newcastle) comes off a poor performance and result that will impact his confidence. Ok maybe hindsight wasn't the correct choice of word to use. I think as a general consensus no one would ever pick Conor against teams that are going to see a lot of the ball against us and I agree with your comment above Only playing devils advocate in suggesting Smith's reasoning to start him was probably due to his performance last time out and maybe he didn't take him off because (as you say) McGinn was also having a bit of a mare. But I am with you totally, we were lucky to be 1-0 up at HT and he should have changed it there and then because it was all to obvious what was going to happen. I get the confidence thing - but then if he plays well against Sheff U (he did) then gets dropped against the bigger sides (Chelsea) then that's also going to dent is confidence too. Bottom line for me is Smith has to take part responsibility for what happened but Conor has to take the majority of the blame - he let the gaffer down with that performance big time. But to be fair he wasn't the only one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 Good points, I think we're on roughly the same page. Maybe if Dean had shown a consistent approach during the season as to who starts against which types of teams then dropping Conor for the Chelsea game might not have been such a demotivating factor. It does seem as though one major difference to pre-lockdown is Conor is being given a lot more game time. Maybe this is an area he's trying to switch up to change our fortunes, but it isn't working. Think it needed a more drastic change to our playing style than just the personnel. Maybe he did think Conors free kick threat was our best chance to score, hence why he started. Then stuck blindly to that (if its our best chance when we're behind, why not stick with it when we're ahead and then when we do go behind again)... but for me it was a crucial mistake. I keep thinking back to that game against us where Conor totally dominated the midfield and looked like a world beater. Where did that player go ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 14 hours ago, Tomaszk said: There's very little difference at all technically between him and someone like Norwood at Sheffield United. All technique, no size or strength. Norwood is key to that side because he isn't a little fanny who is scared to tackle and scared to get on the ball. There is a huge difference. Norwood has a good first touch and his passing and vision is top notch. Conor is slow in both mind and body in these respects. I honestly don't care about his defensive contributions, that's not why he's in the team. We know he's powder puff. But he can't make anything happen on the ball unless it's stationary and he has 10 seconds to prepare. We can't afford that on top of his lack of defensive contributions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 I've been very critical of Hourihane but he's been a lot more involved since the restart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 Summed up in the last 5 minutes when Jack played the ball to him in the D. In acres of space but took an age to tee the ball up and shoot. One paced Joe. Nice corner. Standard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post AVTuco Posted June 24, 2020 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted June 24, 2020 Should've sat against Chelsea and started today. But no. Way to go Smith. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poitier Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 He wasn't great but he had a positive impact overall. One of his better cameos, shame about the last free kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 On 22/06/2020 at 16:48, Keyblade said: There is a huge difference. Norwood has a good first touch and his passing and vision is top notch. Conor is slow in both mind and body in these respects. I honestly don't care about his defensive contributions, that's not why he's in the team. We know he's powder puff. But he can't make anything happen on the ball unless it's stationary and he has 10 seconds to prepare. We can't afford that on top of his lack of defensive contributions. So once again, we sign the wrong players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooJung Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 He starts the games he shouldn't start (Chelsea) and is benched for games where he can offer something (today). Something is seriously wrong at this club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooJung Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 1 hour ago, TRO said: So once again, we sign the wrong players. To be fair, we signed him in our first season in the championship to get us up, he nearly did in his first full season with us and managed it in his second, playing an important role in both seasons. Had we signed him this summer I would agree, but he has been the right signing at the right time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted June 24, 2020 Share Posted June 24, 2020 He came on, and was tidy on the ball. Kept the flow moving and allowed us to get forward every time he got it. Also got an assist albeit a bit lucky with the goal, but it's still a goal. As mentioned above, Conor should have started today. Any match where we might have the ball, Conor starts. If our primary goal is to hit on the counter and defend, Conor is not your man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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