Steve Bruce

[DCJonah]

8 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

Actually, I think the club should just sack him now on the grounds that we lost one of our pre-season friendlies.

It's when most clubs sack their managers, after all.

They really don't. They usually give them the chance the following season and will make a decision after a certain number of games based on their expectations and what they see. Which I think was what was originally suggested. 

[weedman]

The players all looked miles off the pace...in their 2nd pre season match. Shocker 

[NottingVilla]

3 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

The players that were bought in January, generally came on form and we're largely thought to be one of if not the best players at their clubs. Most of the Championship look at our squad with envy. The longer they have been here the worse they have got, however a good preseason is all that was needed to get everything sorted.

I think too many people are hood-winked by those acquisitions. They were still at the end of the day Championship players at clubs in the bottom half of the table.We need/needed players that are capable of playing at Premier League level, not a load of semi-decent championship players. See my rather excellent post on 'ringers' in the what we need to get promoted thread.

As for Bruce, he isn't going to last is he? Watching Hutton over-lapping today *shudder*. 

[KHV]

3 hours ago, DCJonah said:

It's 3 weeks till Hull 

I liked the fact we tried to play football from the back. I liked the fact we tried to keep the ball and build a bit slower. 

But we had absolutely nothing in the final 3rd and that was a major issue last year. I think we will be relying on Kodjia an awful lot again after watching Hogan and McCormack today. 

Hogan was a diabolical signing for £14m

[Johnnyp]

28 minutes ago, KHV said:

Hogan was a diabolical signing for £14m

At brentford he was banging them in. Maybe just maybe smith is a better manager than Bruce. !

[briny_ear]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

Sacking him now would be mental. 

 But keeping him longer than 7 games if, IF we play like last year ( which is what we've seen so far), would be just as mental.

This sort of thinking us just crazy. There is too much of it on Villatalk. Hopefully not so much in the higher reaches of AVFC.

Edited July 15, 2017 by briny_ear

[DCJonah]

13 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

This sort of thinking us just crazy. There is too much of it on Villatalk. Hopefully not so much in the higher reaches of AVFC.

RDM got 11 games. I have no doubt the higher reaches of AVFC will be sacking Bruce early if he doesn't start well. 

 

[Grasshopper]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

Sacking him now would be mental. 

 But keeping him longer than 7 games if, IF we play like last year ( which is what we've seen so far), would be just as mental.

why deny a new manager the 7 games when you know the current one is a dead man walking anyway?

[terrytini]

14 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

This sort of thinking us just crazy. There is too much of it on Villatalk. Hopefully not so much in the higher reaches of AVFC.

What sort of thinking ?

I was one of the last to give up on Lambert, and possibly THE last to give up on RDM / taking the view that half s season should be a minimum.

With Bruce, he did poorly enough last season over quite a big run to make me, and many others, doubt him.

I took the view we should persist with him as it was possible he would alter what was a pretty ineffective approach.

I still feel the same way.

But, if, IF - after 7 games we are 

1: playing the same way as last season ( which is why these friendliest ARE relevant, we are looking for some improvement in approach)

2: being outplayed as often as last season

3: scoring as infrequently as last season

4: not in the top 2 of thereabouts

then it would - IMO which is just as valid as yours and NOT 'crazy' any more than yours is - be perfectly rational to add last year to this year and conclude we would struggle to go up.

That, for me, would necessitate a change, because again IMO our players are good enough.

For me crazy would be all that happening and doing nothing.

None of this has anything at all to do with 2,3,4 or however many years ago and what we did then.

As it happens I still think and hope he WILL change and we will be successful under him....but there's plenty reason to think we won't and 7 games is plenty on

top of the information we have in my view.

 

[terrytini]

6 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

why deny a new manager the 7 games when you know the current one is a dead man walking anyway?

Because I still think Bruce is a good Manager who will change his approach and get us up.

[terrytini]

7 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

why deny a new manager the 7 games when you know the current one is a dead man walking anyway?

And because I think our players are good enough to get promoted with 39 games under a new guy if this guy isn't the guy.

[terrytini]

To put it another way.

After 7 games we will need to have accrued 14 points, using a reasonable guide of 2 points per game for Automatic promotion.

Thats 4 Wins, 2 Draws and a defeat.

If we fail to get players on threatening positions to the same extent as last year - the product of an approach which has SO FAR - been replicated in the friendlies (which may change of course) I don't think for one minute we will achieve that.

If we do great. If we alter our approach I'm sure we will. Or we might get lucky with Kodja.

But if the chances aren't being created - not one shot today and very few chances - which would be irrelevant were it not so eerily reminiscent of last year under Bruce - then I wouldn't be surprised to get 2 Wins, 3 Draws and a couple of defeats.......which would be 9 points and put us way off the pace.

Thats why, for me, an early judgment may be needed,

 

But .....he'll change it and we will not need to worry .....

Edited July 15, 2017 by terrytini

[AshVilla]

The clock is ticking.

3 weeks till the season opener and i've seen nothing to suggest that we have improved one iota from last season.

 

Edited July 15, 2017 by AshVilla

[osmark86]

I really hope we're working hard on the attacking part of the game, because that's something we still seem to be lacking in. Hull will be a test.

[TheAuthority]

2 hours ago, osmark86 said:

I really hope we're working hard on the attacking part of the game, because that's something we still seem to be lacking in. Hull will be a test.

It's all over the park we need work. Even the Shrewsbury players today were positioned in triangles so the player on the ball had options.

But a Villa player would receive the ball, have no-one to pass it to, get closed down, so pass it back to the bloke who gave it to him.
That bloke would have no options and end up hoofing it.

Don't tell me knocking it across the back 4 is a possession game when it ends up with either a hoof, or the bleeding "Scottish Cafu" going on a "Marauding run." I can't ever remember one of Alan Hutton's forward runs leading to a goal full stop. And Alex Mcleish signed him that's how long he's been here.

[cbr600rr]

heres my take..after watching the game..if you was a non biased supporter it could be argued that villa were out played for the game which is a worry so lets not 'iss in the wind here 7 sort it out

THE SQUAD.. theirs quite a few players who are simply not good enough,lets not name names but we know who they are

THE MANAGER ..has been backed ,some good signings,some bad,as pointed out,with hogan @ over £10m..looks a bad buy v kodja

AGAIN THE MIDFIELD...with 3 weeks to go i can honestly say i dont know who SB is going to pick to get us out the league. some bookies have us to win the league,for me sb is hoping kodja will single handed bang in the goals on his own & hope terry will keep the tally down at the other end

i could copy & paste this form the past..villa still have not replaced barry & have wasted millions of pounds on below par players & made below par players bloody rich doing so.

if barry had turned out for the villa you would clearly see how under par the rest of the players are,

i think their more going on behind the door of ffp then we know,bringing in terry was a great thing..but i dont think theirs enough in the squad to win the league..i may be wrong,hope im wrong

[Spoony]

If we sack Bruce as quickly as we sacked RDM after 11 games, I give up. Have we learnt nothing at all??? You can't even use the excuse of "wrong appointment in the first place" because he has been promoted from this division 4 times. Continuously sacking managers gets you NOWHERE.

[DaveAV1]

32 minutes ago, Spoony said:

If we sack Bruce as quickly as we sacked RDM after 11 games, I give up. Have we learnt nothing at all??? You can't even use the excuse of "wrong appointment in the first place" because he has been promoted from this division 4 times. Continuously sacking managers gets you NOWHERE.

Could you suggest when it would be acceptable in your opinion to sack him? How long does the "Four Promotions Factor" actually last for and how much influence does it hold over the evidence of what is actually happening here and now? If we are in the bottom half after 10 games and still playing awful football, he will still have been promoted four times. If he gets us relegated, he will still have been promoted four times.

Yes the club needs stability but not at any cost. It's not the sackings that have been the problem, it's the appointments. 

[sne]

58 minutes ago, Spoony said:

If we sack Bruce as quickly as we sacked RDM after 11 games, I give up. Have we learnt nothing at all??? You can't even use the excuse of "wrong appointment in the first place" because he has been promoted from this division 4 times. Continuously sacking managers gets you NOWHERE.

It will technically be after 47 games if we sack him 11 games into the season.

And just as continually sacking managers who under perform, persisting with the wrong manager also gets you nowhere.

I'd love to see some sign of progress under Bruce, but so far there just isn't.

Edit: Should add that I think it would be poor leadership to sack him early in the season.

I would have liked him replaced after last season (as I'm sure everyone already knows ). But as the football people have put their fate in him it should be for more than just a handful of games.

If he is sacked early I suspect it will be by Xia stepping in rather than the football people who I think will wan't to keep him no matter what.

Edited July 16, 2017 by sne

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, Spoony said:

If we sack Bruce as quickly as we sacked RDM after 11 games, I give up. Have we learnt nothing at all??? You can't even use the excuse of "wrong appointment in the first place" because he has been promoted from this division 4 times. Continuously sacking managers gets you NOWHERE.

I'm afraid FFP means we aren't in the position to give Steve Bruce as much time as he likes just because he's achieved promotion in the past. This would result in serious long term damage to the club and make promotion in the future even more difficult, no idea why you'd want to do that just so Steve Bruce can keep getting paid. 

Also just giving managers time is no guarantee of success. The more time DOL had the worse we got. The more time Lambert had the worse we got. The more time Sherwood had the worse we got. And I've no doubt McLeish would have done the same given another season. 

We need to give the right manager the time, after another 10 games Bruce will be close to the 50 game mark, if we can't make an informed decision at that point then I don't see what another 10 or so games will prove.