Steve Bruce

[TRO]

This is a genuine question....not loaded or anything like that.

I think maybe football is going past me and that this modern game is so much different to when i was younger.....Too analytical, or is it made that way?

I seem to remember citations from eminent managers of the past saying "its a simple game made complicated"

Perhaps its media people trying to forge a living?

I can't remember me and my mates discussing whether a player would fit in to our pattern of play....it wasn't considered , it was accepted they will adapt.

I can name loads of players who we signed and we would just look at their previous if they was strikers......never, "will they fit in",it never entered our heads.

I wonder if we tend to over analyse today, if we tend to read in to things too much?

I still believe there is much the player has to do to play his way in to relationships and form partnerships.....is there too much on third parties?

Edited May 15, 2017 by TRO

[PieFacE]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

This is a genuine question....not loaded or anything like that.

I think maybe football is going past me and that this modern game is so much different to when i was younger.....Too analytical, or is it made that way?

I seem to remember citations from eminent managers of the past saying "its a simple game made complicated"

Perhaps its media people trying to forge a living.

I can't remember me and my mates discussing whether a player would fit in to our pattern of play....it wasn't considered , it was accepted they will adapt.

I can name loads of players who we signed and we would just look at their previous if they was strikers......never, "will they fit in",it never entered our heads.

I wonder if we tend to over analyse today, if we tend to read in to things too much?

I still believe there is much the player has to do to play his way in to relationships and form partnerships.....is there too much on third parties?

Isn't the proof in the pudding whether a player will fit in or not?

Take Hogan has a prime of example of this. He doesn't fit into the way Bruce plays at all. The way we tend to setup under Bruce, is to have a lot of bodies behind the ball, play quite direct and scrap for the second ball. When playing direct, having a "target man" type striker is naturally far more advantageous for knock downs etc. Hogan just isn't capable of doing this. 

So what else could help Hogan? Well, wingers getting down to the byline and crossing the ball across the face of goal would probably see Hogan score a few goals. We currently have 2 players capable of doing this, Grealish and Green, both have barely played since Bruce came in, and it's something that we don't seem to do very often anyway.

Maybe i'm over analysing, but I look at the way we play, and I look how isolated Hogan is, and how he's always making runs "on the shoulder" of defenders but our midfielders can seemingly never pick him out, and I just think he's a bad fit for us. 

We should go sign Cheick Diabate and just lump the ball to him whilst Bruce is the manager. He'd score for fun in the Championship and I don't see our style of play changing dramatically. 

Edited May 15, 2017 by PieFacE

[hippo]

32 minutes ago, TRO said:

This is a genuine question....not loaded or anything like that.

I think maybe football is going past me and that this modern game is so much different to when i was younger.....Too analytical, or is it made that way?

I seem to remember citations from eminent managers of the past saying "its a simple game made complicated"

Perhaps its media people trying to forge a living.

I can't remember me and my mates discussing whether a player would fit in to our pattern of play....it wasn't considered , it was accepted they will adapt.

I can name loads of players who we signed and we would just look at their previous if they was strikers......never, "will they fit in",it never entered our heads.

I wonder if we tend to over analyse today, if we tend to read in to things too much?

I still believe there is much the player has to do to play his way in to relationships and form partnerships.....is there too much on third parties?

Couldn't agree more. The hogan service issue - seems to think that the ball should be delivered to Hogan in front of an open goal. The Idea of striker beating a defender then taking a shot on goal is considered unreasonable.

 

[hippo]

35 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

Isn't the proof in the pudding whether a player will fit in or not?

Take Hogan has a prime of example of this. He doesn't fit into the way Bruce plays at all. The way we tend to setup under Bruce, is to have a lot of bodies behind the ball, play quite direct and scrap for the second ball. When playing direct, having a "target man" type striker is naturally far more advantageous for knock downs etc. Hogan just isn't capable of doing this. 

So what else could help Hogan? Well, wingers getting down to the byline and crossing the ball across the face of goal would probably see Hogan score a few goals. We currently have 2 players capable of doing this, Grealish and Green, both have barely played since Bruce came in, and it's something that we don't seem to do very often anyway.

Maybe i'm over analysing, but I look at the way we play, and I look how isolated Hogan is, and how he's always making runs "on the shoulder" of defenders but our midfielders can seemingly never pick him out, and I just think he's a bad fit for us. 

We should go sign Cheick Diabate and just lump the ball to him whilst Bruce is the manager. He'd score for fun in the Championship and I don't see our style of play changing dramatically. 

Or maybe Hogan is shit - but just run into a bit of form at Brentford. 

because to me he can barley trap a ball. - service or no service.

[mykeyb]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

This is a genuine question....not loaded or anything like that.

I think maybe football is going past me and that this modern game is so much different to when i was younger.....Too analytical, or is it made that way?

I seem to remember citations from eminent managers of the past saying "its a simple game made complicated"

Perhaps its media people trying to forge a living.

I can't remember me and my mates discussing whether a player would fit in to our pattern of play....it wasn't considered , it was accepted they will adapt.

I can name loads of players who we signed and we would just look at their previous if they was strikers......never, "will they fit in",it never entered our heads.

I wonder if we tend to over analyse today, if we tend to read in to things too much?

I still believe there is much the player has to do to play his way in to relationships and form partnerships.....is there too much on third parties?

Years ago didnt all teams play 4-4-2 with a big man and little man upfront, none of this 3-1-4-1-1 or 4-1-2-2-1 rubbish

[VillaCas]

On 12/10/2016 at 15:19, VillaCas said:

Dull, unambitious, uninspiring, unexciting, uninteresting and boring. 

The problem is even if he could take us up (I dont think he will), he does not have the capability to push on from there. He would need to be given a chance to fail and when he does we will be in poor position - his transfer record is extremely poor and his teams are pedestrian and ponderous. The very best scenario (for me) is that we are casting around 18 months from now for someone to come in a start yet another rebuilding project.

I was confident that Sherwood and RDM would turn out to be very very poor appointments and whilst not in the same category, I'm confident that Bruce is not the man to deliver even 20% of DrX's ambition

This was my view on the day of his appointment and I'm even firmer in that view now

In another post during the same period I predicted a very pessimistic 12th place finish and despite a huge spend he couldn't even deliver that

We should have broke the bank to get Wagner on board (critics claimed Wagner would fail whilst Bruce would go from strength to strength - yeah, right)

My prediction for next season is that we will flirt with the play-off places before fading and finishing around 10th - by then parachute payments will be a distant memory and Xia will feel he's spent enough

Our only chance is a slim one - we need a bold move from the board to get rid of Bruce and they need to identify a young, progressive manager to breathe fresh life into the club (few and far between)

Appointing Bruce (and RDM) was a grave mistake and we are likely to languish in the Championship for some years to come - sad days!

 

 

[mykeyb]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

Couldn't agree more. The hogan service issue - seems to think that the ball should be delivered to Hogan in front of an open goal. The Idea of striker beating a defender then taking a shot on goal is considered unreasonable.

This raises the question why was he bought and by whom?

Surely Bruce knows how he wants to play so unless he was going to change our current system to one which would suit Hogan it doesnt make sense. We havent seen any sign of a system change being put into operation.

If Bruce didnt sign the players then he must be questioning if our board are preparing the groundwork for another manager.

[PieFacE]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

Or maybe Hogan is shit - but just run into a bit of form at Brentford. 

because to me he can barley trap a ball. - service or no service.

Maybe he is

 

[BOF]

7 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

 

1 hour ago, hippo said:

Or maybe Hogan is shit - but just run into a bit of form at Brentford. 

because to me he can barley trap a ball. - service or no service.

 

Maybe he is

 

Hogan has scored goals everywhere he has been.  It's not a recent thing so he's certainly not shit.  My own concern was, and still is his ability to remain match fit.  At the time we signed him I pointed out the considerable amount of football he had missed over his career.  It was put to me that these were just 2 serious injuries.  But he has since missed quite a bit of football for us with various different niggles.  So that has done nothing to allay my initial fears.  But I do not question his quality on the occasions when he makes it all the way to the pitch.

[Demitri_C]

22 minutes ago, BOF said:

Hogan has scored goals everywhere he has been.  It's not a recent thing so he's certainly not shit.  My own concern was, and still is his ability to remain match fit.  At the time we signed him I pointed out the considerable amount of football he had missed over his career.  It was put to me that these were just 2 serious injuries.  But he has since missed quite a bit of football for us with various different niggles.  So that has done nothing to allay my initial fears.  But I do not question his quality on the occasions when he makes it all the way to the pitch.

This is my main concern, he ha sbeen injured 2-3 times laready and for 15m I would like to think we had  a striker who was not so injury prone. With Kodjias injury, if he gets injured we are left with mccormack and gabby as only senior strikers 

[DaveAV1]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

I think you misconstrue my point Dave......i wasn't putting conditions on the early start just focussing on the overall objective.

Point taken. Please accept my most humble apologies old chap. 

[mykeyb]

I wonder how much of the money Bruce raises in sales will be allowed to spend.?

[theboyangel]

7 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

I wonder how much of the money Bruce raises in sales will be allowed to spend.?

There are posters doubting we'll be able to sell anyone of our squad, so zero percent is the likely answer.

i think Xia would put all monies raised from sales back into the squad. 

[Grasshopper]

3 hours ago, mykeyb said:

Years ago didnt all teams play 4-4-2 with a big man and little man upfront, none of this 3-1-4-1-1 or 4-1-2-2-1 rubbish

or 4-0-6 like under RDM

[sheepyvillian]

4 hours ago, hippo said:

Or maybe Hogan is shit - but just run into a bit of form at Brentford. 

because to me he can barley trap a ball. - service or no service.

Why did Bruce pay 15 million for him then ? 

[skarroki]

3 hours ago, mykeyb said:

Years ago didnt all teams play 4-4-2 with a big man and little man upfront, none of this 3-1-4-1-1 or 4-1-2-2-1 rubbish

 

[Lerner's Driver]

3 hours ago, VillaCas said:

This was my view on the day of his appointment and I'm even firmer in that view now

In another post during the same period I predicted a very pessimistic 12th place finish and despite a huge spend he couldn't even deliver that

We should have broke the bank to get Wagner on board (critics claimed Wagner would fail whilst Bruce would go from strength to strength - yeah, right)

My prediction for next season is that we will flirt with the play-off places before fading and finishing around 10th - by then parachute payments will be a distant memory and Xia will feel he's spent enough

Our only chance is a slim one - we need a bold move from the board to get rid of Bruce and they need to identify a young, progressive manager to breathe fresh life into the club (few and far between)

Appointing Bruce (and RDM) was a grave mistake and we are likely to languish in the Championship for some years to come - sad days!

 

 

Hail, the soothsayer, for he speaks with unerring accuracy. Any thoughts on the second coming fella, I might get down William Hill.

[dn1982]

5 hours ago, hippo said:

Couldn't agree more. The hogan service issue - seems to think that the ball should be delivered to Hogan in front of an open goal. The Idea of striker beating a defender then taking a shot on goal is considered unreasonable.

 

You can't have seen the games Hogans been involved in. When he's been up front on his own we've just lumped balks up to him. He's about 5ft 8 being a target man isn't his game. It's not simply putting crosses into the box for him but that's help him no end. We as a team sat way too deep. If you plan to do that you need a big man who can hold the ball up to allow the team to push up. If we got the ball to Hogans feet and had players around him he'd score loads as he did for Brentford. You either buy players to suit your style or adapt your style to suit the players. Bruce hasn't done either amazingly. We've not had a consistent formation or tactics under him. Hogan getting injured forced him back to 433 and that saved his job IMO as he was just picking teams hoping something would click. I've a feeling Kodijas injury will also help Bruce as he has to develop a different style in preseason instead of defending and hoping Kodija did something. 

[AshVilla]

Were going to ruin Hogan's career

Shame really because there are managers out there who know how to get their players to play into feet rather than head height all the time i think he would have scored 10 - 20 a season in the prem for someone like Everton or Southampton.

[Jareth]

Bruce IN for me. Looking forward to first game next season with a squad purged of the dross and a fighting chance of promotion.