Steve Bruce

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

There's really no need to repeat the same point. Let's just see what happens, eh? If it isn't working after about 10 games next season, he'll probably be sacked and we can start the circus up again. 

He's gonna get his chance next year. 

I just think we've really **** this up. I think our squad with 2/3 additions should be good enough for promotion. But that's with a manager who gets the best out of them. I can think of maybe 2 players (Chester & Kodjia) who have performed to their best ability under Bruce and I personally think they'd have done that under most managers. 

[bobzy]

5 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

He's gonna get his chance next year. 

I just think we've really **** this up. I think our squad with 2/3 additions should be good enough for promotion. But that's with a manager who gets the best out of them. I can think of maybe 2 players (Chester & Kodjia) who have performed to their best ability under Bruce and I personally think they'd have done that under most managers. 

I don't disagree with the last point but, similarly, I don't think we've massively **** up either. 

Bruce's play has been wank but he's no idiot. He's been in the game long enough to know what needs working on. I'd honestly hate for him to be sacked and replaced now - it just sends out entirely the wrong message and makes us even more of a laughing stock. 

[DCJonah]

6 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I don't disagree with the last point but, similarly, I don't think we've massively **** up either. 

Bruce's play has been wank but he's no idiot. He's been in the game long enough to know what needs working on. I'd honestly hate for him to be sacked and replaced now - it just sends out entirely the wrong message and makes us even more of a laughing stock. 

I'd take short term laughing stock over the long term pity we'd start getting if we stay in this league like Leeds, Wednesday and Forest have. 

Bruce is no idiot but it takes more than knowing what needs improving. I've not seen even the slightest glimmer of hope that Bruce will be able to coach the improvements needed. 

[mykeyb]

50 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Sunday Telegraph: Bruce has been given zero budget and must use loans and/or sell to buy. Apparently FFP means we can only lose £83m in three seasons and we're already up to £81m+. 

This could mean any of the following;

We've cocked up massively and Wyness saying ffp was all under control was bull and he needs to look at his position. 

They have a plan but are using ffp as an excuse to force Bruce out or at least not let him waste anymore money.

This story has come from the Bruce camp and he's looking for an escape root as he realises he's out of his depth/past it.

It's all a load of media bollocks and financially everything is fine. 

Any combination of the above. 

This is exactly what I thought would happen and posted on here a while ago.

Bruce walked out on Hull for a similar lack of backing.

Keep any funds that were available for the next bloke when Bruce is sacked early next season as the football won't improve. IMO

[Michael118]

15 hours ago, skarroki said:

I know this is the wrong thread to continue to discuss this, but it would be interesting to know which of the games you're quoting as Kozak having an impact and being part of our change in form you actually saw. Because anyone watching him would probably tell you about the sheer lack of impact or general ability he has.

I would be astonished if he finds himself playing in a top European division by September. I'd say he's more likely to retire. 

I know you're known for suggesting our least popular players are in fact our best ones and we would be winning every game with them on the pitch but surely even you could see Kozak has had no future at villa for the best part of 3 years. 

The 2 games in particular were the win vs Crystal Palace and the draw vs Leicester. They were the only 2 matches he started for us that season and played 90 mins. So his record in matches he started for us in our worst season ever is 1 win, 1 draw and 0 losses. That stat might not be convincing to you but when you knew he could have that kind of impact and were waiting 20 games for him to get an opportunity like I was then it's convincing.

A report from the BM on Kozak after the Crystal Palace win:

Quote

Within two minutes the striker was causing the visiting defence problems and latched onto a poor touch from Damien Delaney but couldn’t beat the recovering Scott Dann with his shot.

Constantly got himself in good positions for his teammates to find him from out wide but on so many occasions, particularly in the first-half, the cross was not befitting of the build-up play.

The lanky forward was constantly supplying knockdowns for his teammates to latch onto.

Managed to get through 90 minutes for the first time this season, and has now staked his claim to be Villa’s first choice centre forward.

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villas-libor-kozak-scouting-10729654

 

In the Leicester game his workrate was superb and should have had a penalty which would have won us the game. The Mirror rated him an 8 and our best player. The only other player who rated an 8 was Vardy. His direct opponent, Huth who was excellent all season could only manage a 4.

Quote

Player Ratings

Aston Villa: Bunn 7; Bacuna 7, Okore 7, Lescott 7, Cissokho 6; Gana 6, Westwood 6, Veretout 6, Gil 6; Kozak 8, Ayew 7.

Subs: Gestede (Gil 66) 7

Leicester: Schmeichel 7; Simpson 7, Huth 4, Morgan 6, Fuchs 7; Mahrez 5, Drinkwater 7, Kante 7; Okazaki 7, Albrighton 7, Vardy 8

Subs: De Laet (Okazaki 59) 6, Ulloa (Mahrez 69) 6, Gray (Albrighton 85) 6

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/match-reports/aston-villa-1-1-leicester-7163066

Edited May 14, 2017 by Michael118

[DaveAV1]

48 minutes ago, bobzy said:

On those points:

How do you come to the conclusion we've "cocked up"? Wyness saying. FFP is under control may well be because of a knowledge that we can no longer just throw the cash around and need to sell players too. 

Further, how do you come to the other two conclusions?!

We've spent £70m or whatever in the Championship. I imagine that's more in one season than any other club has spent during their entire time in the Championship. Our squad should be good enough to challenge for promotion. If not, sell the ones we don't want before we can bring other ones in. Simple.

So spending £70m and finishing 13th in the Championship playing awful football is the plan? 

Do you think we could recoup our outlay now, on the players we no longer want in the squad? Other than Kodjia nobody has stood out that we could realistically expect to get big money on. We may realise decent money on Amavi but only from someone who hasn't watched him play this season. 

I haven't come to any conclusions,  I've just offered some opinions, one of which was it's all under control and another it's just media bull.

 

[DCJonah]

Relying on other teams buying your unwanted players doesn't suggest it's all under control. To be in that position 12 months in doesn't suggest it's all under control. 

We clearly went all out for promotion, we spent a fortune and sacked a manager after 11 games. There's no doubt it was all in for last year. 

The worry now is how much that gamble is going to effect the next few years. 

[sne]

Please pull a Hull on us Mr Bruce!

If they are relegated and when Silva is snapped up by Southampton they might even take you back.

You get to work with Huddlestone and Elmohamady again and with the parachute money they'll have loads for you to spend on.

For the right price you might even be able to lure your favorites Gabby and Richards away from VP with you.

[DaveAV1]

14 minutes ago, sne said:

Please pull a Hull on us Mr Bruce!

If they are relegated and when Silva is snapped up by Southampton they might even take you back.

You get to work with Huddlestone and Elmohamady again and with the parachute money they'll have loads for you to spend on.

For the right price you might even be able to lure your favorites Gabby and Richards away from VP with you.

The Sunderland job may be available for him. Then, as Sheepyvillian mentioned earlier, we'd all be praying we don't go for Moyes. 

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

He's gonna get his chance next year. 

I just think we've really **** this up. I think our squad with 2/3 additions should be good enough for promotion. But that's with a manager who gets the best out of them. I can think of maybe 2 players (Chester & Kodjia) who have performed to their best ability under Bruce and I personally think they'd have done that under most managers. 

No need to panic and say we have cocked up yet. Let's have this discussion September 1st

[DCJonah]

Just now, Demitri_C said:

No need to panic and say we have cocked up yet. Let's have this discussion September 1st

I know it's not definite. It could all work out brilliantly. I've just seen nothing to suggest that it will. 

[theboyangel]

9 minutes ago, sne said:

Please pull a Hull on us Mr Bruce!

If they are relegated and when Silva is snapped up by Southampton they might even take you back.

You get to work with Huddlestone and Elmohamady again and with the parachute money they'll have loads for you to spend on.

For the right price you might even be able to lure your favorites Gabby and Richards away from VP with you.

 

I know you don't like Bruce (I'm not a big fan either) but this is a little over the top. 

Bruce didn't spend all of Xia's money last season as was only here for one window, in which by and large we spent well.

I'll agree he isn't getting the best out of those players but believe most fans think his January buys are our current best players.

You make it sound like he's a chequebook manager (a fine example of one has signed on down the road for a year)

As for his 'favourites', gabby and richards.... 

He managed to get agbonlahor motivated enough to get fit and play again. Some on here were impressed with the turn around in his application and he scored the winner in the derby. So Bruce can feel a little vindicated in his selection.

As for Richards, whilst he's been on the bench a lot, I don't recall Bruce favouring him or even bringing him on during games. In fact, he's preferred to play jedinak or elphick as CB back up when needed.

Yes, he's bigged him up in the press but maybe to remind other teams Richards is still around and worth a punt on (think his remarks were December/January time)

 

 

[Demitri_C]

52 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

So spending £70m and finishing 13th in the Championship playing awful football is the plan? 

Do you think we could recoup our outlay now, on the players we no longer want in the squad? Other than Kodjia nobody has stood out that we could realistically expect to get big money on. We may realise decent money on Amavi but only from someone who hasn't watched him play this season. 

I haven't come to any conclusions,  I've just offered some opinions, one of which was it's all under control and another it's just media bull.

 

Veretout we will get good money for. Sanchez is going for 2.5m. Then you have the likes of gil, amavi, cissokho, tish to name a few which easily could generate anything from 12m-15m

I also feel this puts less pressure on us. Because we spent big this year all the pressure was on us. It's likely the pressure will be on teams like Sunderland and Boro next season

[Demitri_C]

3 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I know it's not definite. It could all work out brilliantly. I've just seen nothing to suggest that it will. 

Yeah I understand the doubts mate. Let's hope for a productive summer of some wheeling and dealing. I don't want us blowing another 50m then up screwed long term. This is sensible short term.

This squad could easily achieve promotion if Bruce utilises the players correctly.

[DCJonah]

13 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Yeah I understand the doubts mate. Let's hope for a productive summer of some wheeling and dealing. I don't want us blowing another 50m then up screwed long term. This is sensible short term.

This squad could easily achieve promotion if Bruce utilises the players correctly.

I 100% think it's the right idea. We should be looking to add just a bit of quality. 

But it doesn't matter how strong the squad is if the manager can't get the best out of them. 

As you say, this squad should be a contender from promotion. 

[DaveAV1]

15 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Yeah I understand the doubts mate. Let's hope for a productive summer of some wheeling and dealing. I don't want us blowing another 50m then up screwed long term. This is sensible short term.

This squad could easily achieve promotion if Bruce utilises the players correctly.

I agree, it is time the manager started managing instead of acting like a kid in a sweet shop. All the teams above us spent less than us, most of them considerably less. 

[DaveAV1]

I don't feel that as a club we have been clever for a long time. I think the Doc has come in and been great, but I'm not sure we've taken advantage of his cash and enthusiasm in a very smart way. 

Rich man buys football club and throws lots of money at his project, everyone loves him. But he hasn't got the knowledge to spend it wisely. He eventually loses his enthusiasm and throws his toy in the corner. Rich man buys the football club and throws loads of money at it, everyone loves him.........

Hopefully with a different ending this time. 

Sorry wrong thread really. 

Edited May 14, 2017 by DaveAV1

[Jas10]

If true (need to sell before buying) it doesn't seem like a big deal really. We shouldn't be buying more than 4/5 players now really, hopefully we have the basis of a decent side that may challenge for promotion and it just needs a few key enhancements. We can make a few quality loan signings too, I just hope they're of a high enough standard and can make a significant impact - e.g. Abraham, PL players/subs.

For me, priority number 1 this summer (in terms of transfers) is getting rid of the deadwood/underperformers/unwantedplayers at our club that have been lingering for too long and just stinking up the place! We need a proper clearout and need to complete the forming of a new side or squad, that process begun in January imo and needs to be completed. If ever a side needed uprooting and refreshing, it was ours, but we didn't manage to get all the weeds out or make the right adjustments/enhancements in time. Unfortunately, I'm quite sure that some of them will still remain, even after this window, but if we can shift the majority then that will only be a good thing. Seems like those on loan don't want to be here so they can go too. That should provide some decent funds, from which some quality, and actually useful, additions can be made. We shouldn't have an overly large squad imo, a close knit and "tight" team would be way more preferable.

I've had my thoughts on Bruce (not been happy at all, angry, frustrated, disappointed, not my kind of manager etc. etc.) but constantly repeating the same thoughts (which goes for everyone really, those who adamantly defend him too) is really quite pointless. We know the board are backing him and will allow him to continue (I suppose they've been quite emphatic about that, openly stated) so what choice do we have other than to wait and see how things go after preseason? I'm just hoping that with a better side and more team unity and spirit, as well as more/better coaching (some changes there wouldn't go amiss either, must be more attacking in our play), it will make enough of a difference and we will start seeing a team we can be proud of and able to get excited about. We just need to get promoted, it's  as simple as that.

I don't have much confidence tbh but we'll see what the transfer activity is like and what kind of start we will make to the season...

 

[Jas10]

Tbh, I find the most enjoyable or interesting part of these threads to be speculating on potential transfers. It's always been quite fun to suggest and link players to the club that could be attainable and could enhance the team.

Unfortunately, those that come off tend to perform quite miserably here but, given time, hopefully that will change. If the team improves then that will no longer be such a problem. There must be so much work and improvement to be done behind the scenes yet.

It sounds quite simple really but, for anyone, the kind of environment and atmosphere you're entering makes such a difference. A good player coming into a shit side, poisonous atmosphere etc. is going to be adversely affected and unable to fulfil his potential or perform well. Even just a decent player, coming into a quality side with character, identity and unity, should thrive...I hope we can become such a team...

[sne]

1 hour ago, theboyangel said:

 

I know you don't like Bruce (I'm not a big fan either) but this is a little over the top. 

Bruce didn't spend all of Xia's money last season as was only here for one window, in which by and large we spent well.

I'll agree he isn't getting the best out of those players but believe most fans think his January buys are our current best players.

You make it sound like he's a chequebook manager (a fine example of one has signed on down the road for a year)

As for his 'favourites', gabby and richards.... 

He managed to get agbonlahor motivated enough to get fit and play again. Some on here were impressed with the turn around in his application and he scored the winner in the derby. So Bruce can feel a little vindicated in his selection.

As for Richards, whilst he's been on the bench a lot, I don't recall Bruce favouring him or even bringing him on during games. In fact, he's preferred to play jedinak or elphick as CB back up when needed.

Yes, he's bigged him up in the press but maybe to remind other teams Richards is still around and worth a punt on (think his remarks were December/January time)

 

 

It was a bit tongue in cheek. 

But with some genuine feeling