Steve Bruce

[TRO]

1 hour ago, romavillan said:

I think we are in the situation where we either need a standout manager to kick the club up the arse and micromanage everything from the youth to the first team, sort out some new coaches and get everyone pulling in the same direction, or, we need to separate these responsibilities. So hire a Director of Football, who then assembles coaching staff from the first team head coach down to the youth level coaching teams. All hired with a plan in mind of how we want to play. He also hires our hires the head scout, with the same criteria in mind who in turn hires his scouting network and looks for players to fit the system and ethic. 

This is clearly going to be a long job, for me it's too big to lay all of it at Bruce's door as well. I'd like for us to diminish the scope of the Manager's role at AVFC, to that of the first team coach, divide the old responsibilities out between a team of specialists with narrower focus under a DOF. It will make finding a good first team coach much easier when in october we're in the bottom half and playing like shit

It's not going to happen though so I'm hoping that Bruce, Tony and Wyness already have a plan for the summer and are quick out of the blocks to get everything done in time for a long and productive pre-season before we, um, "go again".

You say kick us up the arse......Steve Bruce has never had a reputation as a shrinking violet.....and do we really want a Pearson, that despite his undoubtedly good points he acts like a hand grenade?

You make the crucial point for me....who, just who could be expected to sort this "quicksand" in then time alloted, like this season.

To my knowledge we have a very highly educated Director of football or equivalent in Steve Round.....We have advisers in Brian Little and Ian Taylor and Peter Withe is seen at BMH on more than one occasion.....They have a plethora of pundits and advisers swarming the place. My understanding too is that Steve Round has a big influence in who comes in and a responsibility for the template of how we play as a club not just a first team....My understanding is he and Steve Bruce work together on this.

Not one to my knowledge out of these experts is saying the manager must go.....neither is the local press FWIW.

If we keep our nerve, suppress our impatience ( that is not a criticism, in what we have been through.....but 7 years of shite does not equal 35 games of fix)

support the people who are trying to get us back.

We will be OK

 

[mykeyb]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

It makes no sense to me.

lets deal with the dichotomy....Fact or opinion

• How long does this take to fix.....opinion.
• How does it get fixed, coaching alone or change of personnel or both....opinion
• Another window and a preseason won't fix it....Opinion.
• Will the club stick with him?....He's in the job....Fact
• We will cripple the next guy, will there be a next guy....opinion
• The coaching setup is not good enough, yet we have nothing to substantiate that other than what we see....opinion.

The Facts 

• We have a manager that is working with a contract and a job that is incomplete....fact
• He has a previous record of successfully acheiving what he is the middle of now....fact
• There has been no overtures from the club to suggest his job is in jeopardy.....Fact
• The complaints regarding the playing performances from most fans is shared by the manager....Fact.
• He has had a disruptive season to contend losing his 2 influential players at crucial times, to hamper his development....Fact
• There is absolutely no indication from the press, pundits or ex players or managers that suggest he should go after this season....Fact

Lets be clear, no one has the monopoly of whats right or wrong hear, but is it too much to ask, to allow the bloke to be allowed to get on with the job and until its is blindly obvious we have given him the financial support and the windows to do it ,that and it has not happened.....Is it reasonable to criticise to the extent some of us have.....WHEN THE JOB IS INCOMPLETE.

The job is difficult enough he needs nourishment not punishment.

TRO if Bruce succeeds next season you will have the right to be very smug....

Putting aside your list of opinions above

1. Is any manager have a job that is complete?

2. Again history is no guarantee of future success.

3. Correct, however the season isn't over and I am not sure any decision has been made on the managers future either for or against. I wouldn't be surprised if the investment planned for the summer is scaled back to avoid throwing good money after bad. Last time Bruce wasn't backed by the owners he walked.

4. I don't care if he is upset by the performances or not. He can be upset by the catering on match day and appears to have as much idea about how to put that right as he has the team performances.

5. How many games have the two players missed out of the 35+ under Bruce.

6. No surprise there doesn't mean it won't happen or will happen.

You back the manager because you don't think he has had enough time or staff turnover to make the team play how he wants, and he has gained promotion on 4 occasions, 50% through the play offs.

I think 35 matches and bringing in 5 players should be enough to show a fair degree of improvement, we have seen zero, I have looked closely at he managerial history at big clubs, not pleasant reading and is as much of an indicator to his future at villa park as his promotions.

I expect to see us get hammered on Sunday and then see a club go up as champions, it won't be us and that will really bloody hurt. If Bruce is here next season I have doubts we will see another promotion happening.

Edited May 5, 2017 by mykeyb
Error

[villakram]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

some of the  players may not individually be bad.....but some may be hoodwinking us, we think they are ok, but are not......The team is not right IMO and the players are not balanced in many ways. The culture at the club could be wrong, but I cannot be sure of that, because I simply don't know.

The managers is responsible for set/up and tactics.....but if the personnel are simply not there to make that balance you have to wait until they are. I see things from the players, i find hard to blame tactics and set up ALL OF THE TIME......sometimes maybe.....but not all of the time.

They have to take responsibility for their :

• Desire
• Basic skills
• Energy
• Fitness
• Character/Approach
• Application

I am not saying that the manager is blameless, but when so many things are wrong it is difficult to pin point the problem, because there are so many......I am not saying its like sorting out the NHS , but after years of shit everywhere, forgive me for being tempted.

This job will "fry the brain" of many managers....The culture, you could have a point , but that will take much time to change.

Maybe they are. Maybe they are telling us exactly what they think of the manager. If the manager cannot get the players to perform, manager out!

Edited May 5, 2017 by villakram

[theboyangel]

What has happened to his face?

Some say he isn't a miracle worker but somehow he's managed to make himself even more uglier  

[trekka]

40 minutes ago, theboyangel said:

What has happened to his face?

Some say he isn't a miracle worker but somehow he's managed to make himself even more uglier  

There's a video where he says he had a mole removed, make that 2 moles removed.  Witty? 

[Junxs]

Very big cut across his forehead that's had what looks like about 12-15 stitches, and another cut on the other side. Has he been in a motorcycle accident or something?

[theboyangel]

6 minutes ago, Junxs said:

Very big cut across his forehead that's had what looks like about 12-15 stitches, and another cut on the other side. Has he been in a motorcycle accident or something?

maybe he was stopping thieves trying to steal his daughters car again 

[TRO]

4 hours ago, mykeyb said:

TRO if Bruce succeeds next season you will have the right to be very smug....

Putting aside your list of opinions above

1. Is any manager have a job that is complete?

2. Again history is no guarantee of future success.

3. Correct, however the season isn't over and I am not sure any decision has been made on the managers future either for or against. I wouldn't be surprised if the investment planned for the summer is scaled back to avoid throwing good money after bad. Last time Bruce wasn't backed by the owners he walked.

4. I don't care if he is upset by the performances or not. He can be upset by the catering on match day and appears to have as much idea about how to put that right as he has the team performances.

5. How many games have the two players missed out of the 35+ under Bruce.

6. No surprise there doesn't mean it won't happen or will happen.

You back the manager because you don't think he has had enough time or staff turnover to make the team play how he wants, and he has gained promotion on 4 occasions, 50% through the play offs.

I think 35 matches and bringing in 5 players should be enough to show a fair degree of improvement, we have seen zero, I have looked closely at he managerial history at big clubs, not pleasant reading and is as much of an indicator to his future at villa park as his promotions.

I expect to see us get hammered on Sunday and then see a club go up as champions, it won't be us and that will really bloody hurt. If Bruce is here next season I have doubts we will see another promotion happening.

I have no interest whatsoever in being smug, i want what is best for my team.

Your response to him being in the middle of the job, by saying every manager is ,is simply being in denial of the supporting arguments....and its only true in the sense that even long serving managers have to dismantle and rebuild.....but your response  suggests you just dismiss, the damage of the past as just a routine rebuild....its far from it.

 

[TRO]

3 hours ago, villakram said:

Maybe they are. Maybe they are telling us exactly what they think of the manager. If the manager cannot get the players to perform, manager out!

Maybe, anything......

I have to admit its much easier to get rid of 1 manager.....than c24 -30 players.

and the cycle continues

Edited May 5, 2017 by TRO

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

3 hours ago, trekka said:

There's a video where he says he had a mole removed, make that 2 moles removed.  Witty? 

@a m ole

Removed?

[LakotaDakota]

[bobzy]

3 hours ago, TRO said:

Maybe, anything......

I have to admit its much easier to get rid of 1 manager.....than c24 -30 players.

and the cycle continues

I find it rather staggering that people think the players aren't good enough.

Whats the solution? But another squad of 30 players? If not, then are we simply completely screwed because there's nothing the manager can do to change the players mindset/ability?

[villan_007]

19 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

I like to base my opinion on what I watch at Villa Park and televised games, not what I read second hand, even though the views of my esteemed fellow VTers are as fascinating as they are insightful. The main reason I am not enamoured with Mr Bruce isn't that the football isn't pretty, but that it isn't consistently  effective. Winning always glosses over the performance and so on a good run hope obviously grows. However my problem is that in the cold light of day, after either disappointment or joy, when I look back on the game, leaving aside the result, I see no difference in the way in which we have played between each individual game. 

What im trying to say is, that we play every game in the same manner, which you're right ain't pretty, and the performance has no real bearing on the result. A moment of good play, generally by Kodjia, or a slip up somewhere changes the result, rather than the actual game plan. If that continues next season then we'll win some, lose some amd draw some which will result in a similar league position as this season which I think you'll agree, isn't good enough. 

In my 40+ years of watching The Villa, I don't think I've ever seen us play pretty football. But I've seen us play exciting attacking football under the likes of Ron Saunders, BFR and Sir Brian and I've seen us play pragmatic effective football under Graham Taylor and MON. All of those managers had a game plan of how to win the game. Sometimes you thought we'd played well after a game and sometimes poorly and the performance was generally reflected in the result. Under Steve Bruce the performance is always uninspiring and negative and the resulting score line as predictable as the toss of a coin.

Bruce out! (If we have a clear plan as to what we do next and with who).

 

P.S. I assume the great posts you've read in support of SB were laden with facts about his experiences and achievements at other clubs that lead the poster to believe he needs more than 35 games and a preseason to put things right. His previous achievements are indeed facts, how much time he needs is opinion. 

In his time here he has averaged 1.5 points per game and it is a fact that if we replicate that next season we will not be promoted. It's my opinion that 35 games is enough time to show he is developing a plan for how we intend to play next season and I believe that he won't achieve our main goal of getting out of this division. In an upward direction!

Great reply dave.

Although my opinion isn't soley based on what I've read.  I too form my own view on what i see. I share your concerns. We have been awful. Ive watched the same former managers teams you mentioned, i know where you're coming from.

My own view is that the club had/has deep issues. Which I've seen get cast aside recently as rubbish. The lerner decay should have been fixed in 35 games is essentially what most are alluding to. I find it ludicrous that people expected this season to be fixed and the team clicking and knocking it about like arsenal. 

We've had change again twice. Previous to that a hatful of managers from all kinds of backgrounds that each time couldn't get us to string a pass together. That to me suggest in runs deeper. Needs to be ripped up, stripped back and started again.

That doesn't happen in a season. But it is being taken care of, and the small shoots of recovery has started. 

Am i happy with the football. No. But at this stage winning is more important than winning pretty. And I'll take that next season.

We've put a winning streak together and become hard to beat. But yes lots of work to do.

In terms of facts that i mentioned, its more pointing to last seasons bottom 6, now containing some of this seasons promotion contenders. Had they pulled the trigger as you want to, where would they be.

And yes i do look to his 4 promotions, the last being last season. I find it baffling that this is cast aside. 

Finally i ment no offense with my stroppy child analogy.  But it's all that comes across when I read it. As well as you put it dave, i still see i want bruce gone, i want a foreign manager and i want tikki takka footy. We've been down that road. It didn't work because it ignored the greater problems.

Bruce in. Stability. Tough winning promotion side.

 

[USA_Villa]

Honestly, If you ask me today, I want Steve Bruce gone. Why? because I have seen nothing in our teams performances that gives me any encouragement that it will be any better next season.

Bruce fanatics convince me otherwise, and don;t start with he has a track record of getting teams out of this league. Football in the championship has moved. Go on convince me Bruce is the the guy.

h

[Villan_of_oz]

Just now, USA_Villa said:

Honestly, If you ask me today, I want Steve Bruce gone. Why? because I have seen nothing in our teams performances that gives me any encouragement that it will be any better next season.

Bruce fanatics convince me otherwise, and don;t start with he has a track record of getting teams out of this league. Football in the championship has moved. Go on convince me Bruce is the the guy.

h

You need to convince me that he isn't the guy..... We just aren't going to agree on this. So why are villa supporters arguing about this when clearly after a few hundred pages of debate nothing has changed. 

Nope, sorry I'm not defending him or providing an argument anymore. 

You can have your opinion and I'll have mine.

What's more important is we are all villa supporters. 

[Stevo985]

6 hours ago, bobzy said:

I find it rather staggering that people think the players aren't good enough.

Whats the solution? But another squad of 30 players? If not, then are we simply completely screwed because there's nothing the manager can do to change the players mindset/ability?

I think we have a "squad" of good enough players.
However I do think that squad is thin and we could do with a few more players of quality in the summer to pad it out and give us options.

Outside of that squad, I think there are a considerable amount of deadwood that needs to be shifted.

[sne]

4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I think we have a "squad" of good enough players.
However I do think that squad is thin and we could do with a few more players of quality in the summer to pad it out and give us options.

Outside of that squad, I think there are a considerable amount of deadwood that needs to be shifted.

That's pretty much how I see it too.

Sadly I also feel that Bruce will never ( no matter how long he's given) get the best out of this particular squad.

Another costly rebuild under Bruce or a new manager and adding a few to the squad already here?

I'd go with the new manager, but I appreciate some won't.

[Dr_Pangloss]

For automatic promotion the squad isn't good enough, needs a good 3-4 to come into the immediate first team. However what we have right now should be good enough for the playoffs, and it's only RDM's and Bruce's shocking management that has seen us 'cement' a bottom half finish.  

[Stevo985]

32 minutes ago, sne said:

That's pretty much how I see it too.

Sadly I also feel that Bruce will never ( no matter how long he's given) get the best out of this particular squad.

Another costly rebuild under Bruce or a new manager and adding a few to the squad already here?

I'd go with the new manager, but I appreciate some won't.

Get The best out of them? You're probably right.

Get Enough to get us promoted? He's easily capable of that. 

[sne]

Just now, Stevo985 said:

Get The best out of them? You're probably right.

Get Enough to get us promoted? He's easily capable of that. 

When he was appointed I was pretty confident that if he fixed the midfield in January and signed a back-up for Kodija during the AFCON he'd be competent enough to get us into the Play off spots.

After watching this season unfold I'm more and more certain that he won't do it next season either, and certainly not top 2.

He seem lost and clueless, and I've not seen a single sign of improvement in the areas he keeps banging on about needing improvement.

People says we're delusional about what caliber manager we can attract in the Championship. How much better midfielders than Hourihane & Lansbury are we (Bruce) expecting to sign to fix the midfield in the summer?