Steve Bruce

[omariqy]

Those talking about our defence need to look at Leeds as an example. Our defence is probably better than theirs man for man but they are coached better. You can organise a defence through coaching. I am not talking about set pieces but how you defend and play as a team. Closing down. Cutting off channels. Playing as one team with one strategy. On Saturday we had our defence on the edge of our own box when they had the ball with their centre backs. They had Fletcher up top. Why did we need to be so deep to someone with no pace? We then had McGinn and Hourihane closing down their defenders high up the pitch but with our defenders miles away we ended up seeing Bannan and co have acres of space to play and dictate.  It's shocking neglect. 

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, romavillan said:

The "controlled development" point is also taken care of by a new hierarchy, if you have a DOF/sporting director who comes up with the plan and gets his scouting staff in and hires a head coach and coaching team etc. Then every time you change head coach they are hired to fit into what is in place, as it stands we're still living in 30 years ago land where every time you change the manager you are changing the entire football side of the club, it's philosophy, maybe even the tactics down the academy, everything.

With the right structure in place, a change of head coach, whilst still being a big deal, is nothing like the upheaval chopping and changing managers is. I'd like to see us go down that route ASAP. Seeing as there's no recruitment to be done till Jan, we could even hire head coach and coaching team first which whilst not ideal would hopefully maximise what we have on the pitch while we get the rest in place for Jan. if we can be 5-8 points off automatic come January and then have everything in place to get 2 or 3 quality bodies in with some good recruitment networks in place then we could try and push on from there.

Keeping Bruce at this point is not helping to get us enough points to be close enough to the top when we do have the structure in place and he sort of stands in the way of an incoming sporting director if their philosophy doesn't match wht Bruce wants to do. 

I agree

just to add...

Despite the changes in manager at Watford.....It doesn't appear to have adversely affected their stability

[AntrimBlack]

I don't think the opposition is anything like as strong as it has been in the last couple of seasons.

I still think if our new owners act in time, with a capable manager, we can still get promotion.

We should not judge this team on Bruce's managing of them. They are better than this.

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, omariqy said:

Those talking about our defence need to look at Leeds as an example. Our defence is probably better than theirs man for man but they are coached better. You can organise a defence through coaching. I am not talking about set pieces but how you defend and play as a team. Closing down. Cutting off channels. Playing as one team with one strategy. On Saturday we had our defence on the edge of our own box when they had the ball with their centre backs. They had Fletcher up top. Why did we need to be so deep to someone with no pace? We then had McGinn and Hourihane closing down their defenders high up the pitch but with our defenders miles away we ended up seeing Bannan and co have acres of space to play and dictate.  It's shocking neglect. 

Well, Liam Cooper and Pontus Janssen are members of their back four so not so sure, we have better man for man.

I have no doubt they are coached better.....but,

Our 2 Centre backs have no pace, so they naturally stay deep, because they can't get back....if our midfielders then go forward it leaves gaps for the opposition to play in.

If you go forward, you have to go as a block or unit, not a department, in order to deny space for the opposition.....Our back four is a real issue for me...in many ways.

[Stevo985]

9 minutes ago, omariqy said:

Those talking about our defence need to look at Leeds as an example. Our defence is probably better than theirs man for man but they are coached better. You can organise a defence through coaching. I am not talking about set pieces but how you defend and play as a team. Closing down. Cutting off channels. Playing as one team with one strategy. On Saturday we had our defence on the edge of our own box when they had the ball with their centre backs. They had Fletcher up top. Why did we need to be so deep to someone with no pace? We then had McGinn and Hourihane closing down their defenders high up the pitch but with our defenders miles away we ended up seeing Bannan and co have acres of space to play and dictate.  It's shocking neglect. 

I'm not sure i agree on our defence being better than Leeds'

But the defence is the problem.

I think we have a defence minded manager who builds his teams from the back. That was fine last season when we had a very good defence.

This season our defence is crap and our attack looks pretty good.
But our manager is still building our play from the back so it doesn't work. If we played to our strengths then we'd get more out of the team.

He's never been great but he got by by being solid and having the attacking players to score lots of goals.
But now he doesn't suit our squad so it's a disaster.

[PieFacE]

I just can't really comprehend what he was thinking when building this squad.

It's so lopsided. 

Edited September 25, 2018 by PieFacE

[AshVilla]

Wow the media actually taking notice for once. About time some external heat was applied to Bruce he's had an easy ride with nothing but excuses for far too long.

[TRO]

50 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

You play to your strengths. We aren't talking about the Premier League here. This is a very average championship there is no team that is strong in every department never mind 3 or 4 off them to completely rule us out of a promotion push. Look at any side and some will be strong at the back, but lack going forward and be looking to grind out results, some will be strong on set pieces but can create next to nothing from open play etc etc

We aren't a total shambles defensively and certainly no worse at the back than half of the championship. The defence isn't the major issue for me. It is the failing to play to the strengths of our attacking players by telling them to be too cautious, to sit too deep, to stand off the opposition and allow them to pretty much have free reign to get into our half.

It would be great to see what an attack minded manager could get out of our squad.

Mark, I think we need to be careful here, it looks like we disagree, but we don't.

I have seen teams come to us this season and give us a hard time, when they have arguably inferior players, we have come up against Barry Bannan and Enda Stevens who were deemed not good enough for us ,but end up on opposing winning sides, so I'm not talking about the Premier league either....The championship is average this season and yes championship players are not as rounded,as the Prem equivalent, but they work to be effective and so far they are proving to be more effective than us.....for whatever reason.

We have been fortunate in all the games we have won this season....nothing we do is convincing.

I didn't think Cardiff was as good as us in some aspects last season, but in others ways they were better....they managed to secure a consistency of positive results, we couldn't.

as regards to Saturday

If we could defend....we would have won 1-0 ......and the debacle at Sheff Utd, proved we can't.

I understand your point and I do not disagree, but there is a more than one problem IMV, Mark.....but they are all coming back to one door.

i see our attempts at Attack and you are not wrong in your points.

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by TRO

[AshVilla]

4 hours ago, Designer1 said:

That article is so bang on it's scary.

He must have seen this thread has reached almost 2300 pages and thought enough is enough

[TRO]

47 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

I don't think the opposition is anything like as strong as it has been in the last couple of seasons.

I still think if our new owners act in time, with a capable manager, we can still get promotion.

We should not judge this team on Bruce's managing of them. They are better than this.

I would like to think you are right.

The opposition is not as strong as the last couple of seasons.....but they are still giving us a hard time.

We are the problem, we are a shadow of the team of last year.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

You play to your strengths. We aren't talking about the Premier League here. This is a very average championship there is no team that is strong in every department never mind 3 or 4 off them to completely rule us out of a promotion push. Look at any side and some will be strong at the back, but lack going forward and be looking to grind out results, some will be strong on set pieces but can create next to nothing from open play etc etc

We aren't a total shambles defensively and certainly no worse at the back than half of the championship. The defence isn't the major issue for me. It is the failing to play to the strengths of our attacking players by telling them to be too cautious, to sit too deep, to stand off the opposition and allow them to pretty much have free reign to get into our half.

It would be great to see what an attack minded manager could get out of our squad.

sorry Mark, I am confused.

That is surely poor defensively.

[markavfc40]

43 minutes ago, TRO said:

sorry Mark, I am confused.

That is surely poor defensively.

No in Bruce's eyes I don't think it is. We don't push high enough up the pitch and get right into other sides faces. As I said earlier our wide players are more concerned with protecting our full back than getting in the face of the opposing teams full back. The starting position of our wide players and centre forward/forwards is too deep when the other team have the ball. That is Bruce's way of defending so despite what looks on paper a 4-3-3 is really a 4-5-1 or 4-1-4-1.

Edited September 25, 2018 by markavfc40

[AshVilla]

27 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

No in Bruce's eyes I don't think it is. We don't push high enough up the pitch and get right into others sides faces. As I said earlier our wide players are more concerned with protecting our full back than getting in the face of the opposing teams full back. The starting position of our wide players and centre forward/forwards is too deep when the other team have the ball. That is Bruce's way of defending so despite what looks on paper a 4-3-3 is really a 4-5-1 or 4-1-4-1.

I agree i think your defence begins with your attack.

Reason being if you don't press opposition defenders far enough up the pitch they can just sit on the half way line and dictate things.

I've seen it happen many times with Villa in recent years.

[villadodo]

The new owners are trying to put their structure in place before changing manager. Bruce isn't their long term solution. They gave him a chance and it hasn't worked out but it is not ideal to sack him now. They need to get their director of football in place first as he will be running the football side and will have a big say in what style of manager we recruit. There is no point making a rushed appointment and finding out the DOF and manager are on two completely different pages. I am sure the next manager will be more of a coach and less involved in the recruitment side. This is what the new owners mean by stability as the coach can be replaced without having to completely overhaul the ethos of the club. I feel we will be heading more down the Watford, Wolves and Brentford model and not the approach we have been used to from Xia and Lerner.

All this being said I feel Bruce is causing a bit of a headache to the new owners and Purslow as there is no use being out of sight of promotion when the new man comes in. I think we are getting close to requiring an interim solution.

[ciggiesnbeer]

Good posts but tbh I would sooner have an interim manager at present. I think the current way we are setup to play is hindering players and selfishly I am just bored by Bruce's passive aggressive pops at fans now.  Lets make a change before this gets ugly. Pay him his year and lets move forward.

[Vive_La_Villa]

BRUCE OUT! 

[jim]

50 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

BRUCE OUT! 

Keep saying it and it will happen!

[BleedClaretAndBlue]

We really never get a good manager do we. Round and Around we go. 

[TheStagMan]

BRUCE OUT!

[Keyblade]

17 minutes ago, BleedClaretAndBlue said:

We really never get a good manager do we. Round and Around we go. 

It's depressing. It's been what, 8 years since we had a decent manager? Houllier could have been decent, and god knows how Garde could have done under better circumstances, but the footballing gods must absolutely hate us.