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Steve Bruce


Demitri_C

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1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

I don't think we suffer from a lack of application/effort/failure to put a shift in or whatever you want to call it.

Saturday was the perfect example of where we go wrong for me and it happens so often that it is down to tactics and not down to players not working hard enough. As a team we sit too deep and don't get right up into the opposing teams faces. We make it easy for the opposition to play out from the back and get into our half.  While we often line up with two wide men the emphasis seems to be too much on defending and not going forward. I think that is why we have still seen plenty of Adomah as, much like when Elmo plays wide, he is pretty comfortable doing the defensive side.

I scratch my head sometimes thinking how a team containing 5 or 6 from Grealish, El Ghazi, Hourihane, McGinn, Adomah, Kodjia, Abraham, Bolasie often look so clueless and create so little and I think it is down to them having their natural attacking inclination stifled by the manager being over cautious.

It is in Bruce's DNA to be defensive. Sometimes it is as clear as day in the line up when he will play two of Whelan, Jedi, Barny in midfield, will play Elmo and Adomah out wide. Other times whilst the line up looks attacking the tactics/overly cautious nature of our play means despite what appears to be attacking on paper has more than one eye on being defensive.

It is so frustrating. Those players we had in front of the keeper/back 4 on Saturday would be a dream for any manager at this level. I'd be shit scared if I was a fan of another club and I saw the players on our team sheet and I'd imagine most managers are jealous of what Bruce has at his disposal . What a waste though when you can't get a tune out of them because of your overly cautious nature.

If I had a message for Bruce it would be let the shackles off for ffs and let these attacking players we have play their natural game and go hell for leather in going at the opposition and pinning them on the back foot. It won't happen though will it. It is far more likely we will see Bruce go the other way now and play a much more defensive line up. What a waste.

Mark, The interpretations will go on and on.....We did much of that highlighted bit last season and QPR at home was a good example....They play between the lines in gaping holes we leave and then beat us in one on ones, quite regularly......do we ever double or treble up to close down like opposition teams do?....no we stand off waiting for it on a plate.

I am not arguing with your overall principle that he is over cautious.....but we can't defend mate...why....is a debate on its own....but we can't keep teams out.....He supposed to be one of the last bastions of defensive football with Pulis, Allardyce and Warnock.....He can't even live up to that.....our back four/five is woeful at present.

you can make a call to the source of the problem , I am really not sure what is causing it,  so I won't argue with your point....but we can't stop the opposition from coming at us and getting purchase on their play.

One goal is the very least we expect from the players we have got, but it would have been a win....we could have won 1-0....not ideal but ok.

I think many things are wrong and your points are valid....but we lose the ball so bloody easily and we give it away with unforced error so regularly....The opposition turn the ball over far more than we do.....we are so tentative at times as a bunch.

The running off the ball is spasmodic and I hear fans shouting "move" when we have a throw in.....that's not working hard or applying yourself.

If you think that is tactics then fine.

I am not going to argue whats causing things.....I am merely saying what I see.....we struggle with second balls in most matches, that's not hard work.

Yes, I have blamed the players in the past and we have new ones, but the same faults are still in evidence.

He has to move over.....He is now the common denominator.

 

Edited by TRO
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18 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Yeah.

Those bloody fans who want us to win the next game

What on earth are they thinking?!

I have no problem with @villabromsgrove's view. At least he's admitting it rather than most of the posters on here who want us to lose and then pretend they've never wanted that.
I understand why he wants it totally.

But I'm not having your bullshit post that fans that want to see us win the next game, or any game, are thick and can't see what you can because you want us to lose.

Get to **** with that patronising bollocks.

Seems like you have a dose of twisted knickers. Who did I call 'thick'? Strange that you have no problem with villabromsgrove's comment yet mine, which is basically saying the same thing, you take exception to. Perhaps it's because I didn't wrap it up in nice weasily words for you and I just said it as I see it. Is that it?

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17 hours ago, weedman said:

My suspicion is they are keeping him until all the background staff are in place before getting rid and bringing in a coach.

Losing matches won't bring those staff in any quicker. Winning matches won't prevent a plan being implemented, therefore I want Aston Villa to win every game until all the crap in the background is sorted out (the sooner the better, but I suspect it will take longer than most hope) and Bruce is replaced. 

If you genuinely believe that the owners are making their decisions (potentially worth hundreds of millions) on a game by game basis then you must also genuinely believe they have no plan for our future. I may be wrong, but I'm an optimist, I will believe the owners have a plan and will implement it when all the pieces are in place until the evidence suggests otherwise 

If it all goes tits up and the owners turn out no better than Randy or Tone, I'll try being a "visionary" and praying for defeats like you guys in the hope we'll stumble from manager to manager and strategy to strategy until it just suddenly works one day. I mean, it hasn't worked so far, but can't hurt to keep trying can it? 

Based on our previous owners over the last 8 years or so (who were also money men) I will choose to believe that there is no coherent plan until they prove otherwise. There really is no need to see what Steve Bruce can achieve over the next few weeks or months, just look at what he has failed to achieve over the last 20+ years.

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5 minutes ago, pacbuddies said:

Based on our previous owners over the last 8 years or so (who were also money men) I will choose to believe that there is no coherent plan until they prove otherwise. There really is no need to see what Steve Bruce can achieve over the next few weeks or months, just look at what he has failed to achieve over the last 20+ years.

Well, I do think we have seen enough.

I suspect our new owners will claim they have not seen enough, just yet.

I get the highlighted bit.

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59 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

No that’s just wishful thinking on your part. He’ll make way for Pepe in the next couple of weeks and we’ll storm the league. There’ll just be second or playoffs left for you Tykes to go for. ?

Not sure a  frog is the right choice to replace Bruce tbh 

Edited by Cjay
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4 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Poor kid. How does that even happen unless you’re from Sunderland?

He got interested in football just at the time when they were riding high in the Premier League, got to 6th that year, I think.

But he has stuck with them. He is definitely not a glory hunter!!! :D

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56 minutes ago, pacbuddies said:

Seems like you have a dose of twisted knickers. Who did I call 'thick'? Strange that you have no problem with villabromsgrove's comment yet mine, which is basically saying the same thing, you take exception to. Perhaps it's because I didn't wrap it up in nice weasily words for you and I just said it as I see it. Is that it?

No. 

@villabromsgrove‘s vies was that he wanted us to lose on Friday to get Bruce out. 

Your view was that people who didn’t agree with that were somehow less enlightened and couldn’t see what you could see. 

@villabromsgrove‘S post was about the game. Your post was about anyone who doesn’t agree with him. 

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I want Bruce gone as much as the next man, but I've got to admit that the chanting and anger in some peoples faces made me feel a little bit uneasy on Saturday. 

I don't think you could have handpicked a worse fixture for the next game than Bristol City away on a friday night.

Bristol play some lovely stuff, a lot fans travelling down will be full of ale, if it goes pear shaped i really think things could turn nasty. 

 

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I don't understand why we are arguing amongst ourselves when the vast majority of us all want the same thing, Bruce out.

I would never wish that we lose a game of football because i want us to win every game. Now that doesn't make me "a better fan" but equally, it doesn't mean i "don't see the bigger picture"

Fans aren't stupid, most now are seeing that Bruce needs to go, it doesn't matter if you decided that 2 weeks ago or 2yrs ago.

I personally have wanted him out for at least 18 months, it doesn't mean I'm "I'm more enlightened" then those that wanted to give him time. 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, av1 said:

I want Bruce gone as much as the next man, but I've got to admit that the chanting and anger in some peoples faces made me feel a little bit uneasy on Saturday. 

I don't think you could have handpicked a worse fixture for the next game than Bristol City away on a friday night.

Bristol play some lovely stuff, a lot fans travelling down will be full of ale, if it goes pear shaped i really think things could turn nasty. 

 

I’ve always found real anger and hate in football quite unsettling. I understand where you are coming from. 

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12 minutes ago, MikeAVFC said:

As others have said, he is clearly on borrowed time. He has to be. The obvious explanation is that the owners' preferred choice (I suspect a foreign manager in work, possibly with links to Mendes) is unavailable at the moment. They will remove Bruce when their plan falls into place. Sure it's frustrating as **** that this clearing in the woods is clinging on but I suppose it's short term pain, long term gain. The last thing we want to do is sack Bruce and appoint someone who the owners don't really want. My guess is the manager they want is a very ambitious target who won't be available yet. I'm sick to **** death of Bruce but to be honest I'm already resigned to not going up this season, this is a long term project with this new ownership. If it takes time to get the man they want who will bring success to the club long term then so be it. I'm done ranting about him, he IS on his way out. It's just a matter of when. As much as I like him, I think they are targetting much better than Dean Smith, I am convinced of that.

Wolves got Lambert as an interim manager until their main target of Nuno was available.

But if Lambert had really impressed in that time he might have kept his job.

We could always do something similar. Not with Lambert of course. 

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As always @markavfc40 an erudite and comprehensive deconstruction of exactly where our players find themselves under Bruce.

Its not new is it ? It defines his time here. 

Hitherto I’d suggest two things have prevented this becoming his Nemesis.

Firstly, if he could average, or look like he might average, 2 points a game “or thereabouts” there was an argument for sticking.

Secondly, it was plausible for him to argue - but equally it was reasonable to disagree - that there was a lot of ‘ship steadying’ needed, and, a cautious approach was the best way of doing so.

Neither of those two key points are now relevant.

Indeed I think most of not all fans now see his approach as squandering a wealth of attacking talent.

Its always been about his style, now it’s clearly nowhere near fit for purpose.

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Was reading how the players are getting better and better at Wolves with Nuno. Made me think? Can we truely say any players Bruce and his team have coached, actually turned into better players here?? Can't think of any, Grealish had the skills long before Bruce.

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2 hours ago, blandy said:

It's not going to happen. It's been like that from the first day, really (before he was appointed, also). It's not going to change. As you say, it's in his DNA to be defensive.

And even if he somehow morphed from a caterpillar to a butterfly, the coaches are not (on the evidence before us) capable of coaching a more creative, attacking style. 

And it's made worse by him now lacking the belief in his method to pick a side that would be better suited to what he knows - under Bruce we'd have a better chance of winning at the moment with a line up of:

-----------------------------------Nyland--------------------------------------

Elmo-------------Chester---------------Jedinak------------Hutton

---------------------Whelan---------------Bjarnason--------------------

------------McGinn---------Hourihane------Grealish---------------

----------------------------------Abraham-----------------------------------

It's the only thing I can come up with that would allow him to try to fall back on his natural "solid-with-chance-of-magic" ethos - you could maybe add Tuanzabe as a third CB and lose Bjarnason.

Bruce has dug himself a hole though where if he were to pick either of those sides he'd get absolutely slaughtered. He's got loads of attacking talent and he's under pressure to use it. It's that thing he used to do late in games when we were chasing a goal - bring on all the strikers but don't have any way of controlling the ball enough to get it to them - only now it's from the opening whistle. Until January.

You're absolutely right, he can't go from caterpillar to butterfly, he can't reinvent himself and learn how to be an attacking coach overnight - he's also put himself into a position where he can't pick a defensive line up - it's a mess.

 

 

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