villabromsgrove Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 None of us on VT pretend to be 'football experts' we just say what we've seen, and our opinions are built on years of following Villa match after match. We've got it right on here concerning Steve Bruce, and the journos/pundits (who source a load of their stuff on social media) are now being brave enough to come out and voice the thoughts that we've long held. Criticising an "establishment manager" can be risky as a journo or pundit because the establishment closes ranks and supports it's own. The fact that journalists and pundits are emboldened to tell the truth, indicates that they are now finally convinced that Bruce is finished at Villa. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sne Posted September 26, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 26, 2018 23 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: He has ruined 3 seasons. History will place him as one of our worst managers. The time he's been afforded, the resources at hand (players, transfer fees, wage budget, training facilities, stadium, staff,...) especially compared to the opposition and the salary he's been paid sadly places him quite high on that list. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 20 minutes ago, sne said: The time he's been afforded, the resources at hand (players, transfer fees, wage budget, training facilities, stadium, staff,...) especially compared to the opposition and the salary he's been paid sadly places him quite high on that list. I'd agree with this, when you consider he has had Man City Esque resources and squad available to him (in comparison to the rest of the Championship) he has been a total failure. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam2003 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 1 hour ago, AntrimBlack said: He is much acclaimed for this, but I do not believe it was all that difficult to stop the rot. New owner; money to splash around on top players for the division; a general feeling of positivity. He was lucky to get in at the right time. A general feeling of positivity? When did he take over, the 1992/3 season? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 (edited) 48 minutes ago, sne said: The time he's been afforded, the resources at hand (players, transfer fees, wage budget, training facilities, stadium, staff,...) especially compared to the opposition and the salary he's been paid sadly places him quite high on that list. Too true. Especially the importance of parachute payments and ffp. He has been given a ferrari in a race filled with scooters and somehow failed. And it's not like we've played good footy and been unlucky. The football has been turd his entire reign. And while it's absurd to say, I genuinly think I would have done better managing this team myself. Not even joking. Edited September 26, 2018 by KenjiOgiwara 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 1 hour ago, AntrimBlack said: He has ruined 3 seasons. History will place him as one of our worst managers. No, it won't. He won't even make the top 5 of worst Managers in the past decade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post KenjiOgiwara Posted September 26, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: No, it won't. He won't even make the top 5 of worst Managers in the past decade. Well to make any sort of sensible comparison you would have to factor is different stuff. For instance which league do you manage us in? How big is our salary cap relative to our opponents? How much money do we spend on transfers relative to our opponents? How good are our facilities and tools relative to our opponents? How good football do we play? How entertaining are we? How long of a time has the given manager had to implement his style of play? How many transfer windows has the manager had to shape his squad? Add all this together and I can't find a single manager that's done worse than Bruce. Sherwood is obviously up there considering his results, but other than that, nobody even comes close. But it's all opinions obviously. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 Apart from McLeish who had relatively weaker resources, Garde who was given a shit sandwich to eat and DiMatteo who died from draws in a very short tenure, I cant think of a worse manager in that timeframe. And when you consider how lavish Bruces resources have been vs opponents, I can see why an argument could be made that he's the worst in the last decade. I would call it mismanagement of resources but that would imply some sort of management. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cjay Posted September 26, 2018 Visiting Supporter Share Posted September 26, 2018 Reading some stats earlier (for us actually but looked at yours). Your 1st for shots per game, 1st for crosses per game, 1st for goals from crosses (unsurprisingly) 5th for bad touches, 4th for dispossessed. 10th for total passes, 10th for accurate hoof, 7th for accurate short pass, last for inaccurate short pass. 3rd for key passes (passes leading to a shot), Youre quite low for shots conceded per game to ,18th i think it was. So you dont make many tackles, tackles made in total bottom 3, tackles successfully made bottom 3, interceptions bottom 6, but clearances you are top 3. Blocks, crosses, shots and passes are low across the board, dont do that much. Possession your top 4, pass accuracy your top 5. I dont have a clue if this is of any interest to anyone, but thought id share 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 9 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: No, it won't. He won't even make the top 5 of worst Managers in the past decade. Go for it. Give us your top 5. For the record here is mine from 2008 onwards. 1. Di Matteo (A disaster) 2. Remi Garde (Inherited a mess but there wasn't even a new manage bounce with this lad) 3. McLeish (Do I need to explain why?) 4. Bruce (He's had a go at it but we're essentially still in the same place as this time two years ago despite having substantial resources) 5. Sherwood (Cup Final and saved us from relegation but the following season during his time was a shambles) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 9 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: Well to make any sort of sensible comparison you would have to factor is different stuff. For instance which league do you manage us in? How big is our salary cap relative to our opponents? How much money do we spend on transfers relative to our opponents? How good are our facilities and tools relative to our opponents? How good football do we play? How entertaining are we? How long of a time has the given manager had to implement his style of play? How many transfer windows has the manager had to shape his squad? Add all this together and I can't find a single manager that's done worse than Bruce. Sherwood is obviously up there considering his results, but other than that, nobody even comes close. But it's all opinions obviously. RDM - had all those same resources and in the same division, managed one win from eleven games, so there's one. I can post another 4 easily but is there any point in doing so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxahunter Posted September 26, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted September 26, 2018 13 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: RDM - had all those same resources and in the same division, managed one win from eleven games, so there's one. I can post another 4 easily but is there any point in doing so? I would say that Bruce has had similar patches as Di Matteo, so you trying to say he isnt among the 5 worst when placing Matteo in that category is a bit off. But please, you said is was easy to do, so I would like to see that list. In the end its just a matter of opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrim Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 Bruce has had more resources than RDM, including RDMs better signings and significantly longer to use them. Not saying this is definitive but its something to consider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herman22 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said: Go for it. Give us your top 5. For the record here is mine from 2008 onwards. 1. Di Matteo (A disaster) 2. Remi Garde (Inherited a mess but there wasn't even a new manage bounce with this lad) 3. McLeish (Do I need to explain why?) 4. Bruce (He's had a go at it but we're essentially still in the same place as this time two years ago despite having substantial resources) 5. Sherwood (Cup Final and saved us from relegation but the following season during his time was a shambles) For me: 1. Sherwood, sold (and was forced to be fair) the makings of a very decent squad and bought in complete crap. We are still paying for the likes of Richards. Lescott goes down as the worst signing of all time. And starting the season with Guzan as No. 1 was never going to work. 2. McLeish, no wanted him from day 1 and that never changed. 3. Bruce, has had every chance to make a success of his time at Villa and has failed miserably. His transfer dealings have been nothing short of terrible and development of young players is non-existent. The best players at the club are still the ones DiMatteo brought in before he arrived or were already here. (Chester, Kodija, Jack) 4. DiMatteo, I think if he was given a full season we wouldn't be talking this nonsense about Bruce "steading the ship". RDM had a poor start but at least he was trying to play football, the team couldn't stop letting in last min goals that eventually cost him. 5. Garde, think he was given a pretty terrible job to do. When he signed no one in Jan I think we all knew the writing was on the wall. But never did anything to make me think he was going to make a go of it. Real pity as I think under the right owner he could have been a real success. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post VILLAMARV Posted September 26, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 26, 2018 Oh good, we're doing worst 5 managers today! 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxahunter Posted September 26, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted September 26, 2018 10 minutes ago, Herman22 said: For me: 1. Sherwood, sold (and was forced to be fair) the makings of a very decent squad and bought in complete crap. We are still paying for the likes of Richards. Lescott goes down as the worst signing of all time. And starting the season with Guzan as No. 1 was never going to work. 2. McLeish, no wanted him from day 1 and that never changed. 3. Bruce, has had every chance to make a success of his time at Villa and has failed miserably. His transfer dealings have been nothing short of terrible and development of young players is non-existent. The best players at the club are still the ones DiMatteo brought in before he arrived or were already here. (Chester, Kodija, Jack) 4. DiMatteo, I think if he was given a full season we wouldn't be talking this nonsense about Bruce "steading the ship". RDM had a poor start but at least he was trying to play football, the team couldn't stop letting in last min goals that eventually cost him. 5. Garde, think he was given a pretty terrible job to do. When he signed no one in Jan I think we all knew the writing was on the wall. But never did anything to make me think he was going to make a go of it. Real pity as I think under the right owner he could have been a real success. I know it was only a loan, but I think Jermaine Jenas is up there amongst worst signings of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 29 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: RDM - had all those same resources and in the same division, managed one win from eleven games, so there's one. I can post another 4 easily but is there any point in doing so? No 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holteend1982 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, sparrow1988 said: Go for it. Give us your top 5. For the record here is mine from 2008 onwards. 1. Di Matteo (A disaster) 2. Remi Garde (Inherited a mess but there wasn't even a new manage bounce with this lad) 3. McLeish (Do I need to explain why?) 4. Bruce (He's had a go at it but we're essentially still in the same place as this time two years ago despite having substantial resources) 5. Sherwood (Cup Final and saved us from relegation but the following season during his time was a shambles) We've only had about 7 managers since 2008 and our football gave one of those a heart attack so it's quite easy to include Bruce in that but if you're looking at overall then Bruce won't be anywhere near worst 5 IMO. I think remi Gardes new manager bounce was a 1 all draw with man City at home then we started getting spanked again every week! One of the worst I can remember is Graham Taylor in 2002. Steve Bruce is also in top 5 for win percentage, so no way can he be in worst 5. Edited September 26, 2018 by holteend1982 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 What exactly does “stop the rot” mean and what specific decisions or actions did Steve Bruce make to accomplish that feat? 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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