Steve Bruce

[mykeyb]

There is no coaching to improve players at BH

[Lord Willard]

I'm just absolutely baffled how he is still here

[markavfc40]

25 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

 

Bruce has dug himself a hole though where if he were to pick either of those sides he'd get absolutely slaughtered. He's got loads of attacking talent and he's under pressure to use it. It's that thing he used to do late in games when we were chasing a goal - bring on all the strikers but don't have any way of controlling the ball enough to get it to them - only now it's from the opening whistle. Until January.

 

I agree with you to a point but I do think it is somewhat different having 3 or 4 strikers on the pitch to having a midfield 3 of Hourihane, McGinn and Grealish and two of Bolasie, El Ghazi, Adomah, Kodjia wide and either of Abraham or Kodjia up top. That midfield three and those wide players have more than enough about them to control the ball.

Strangely he went from a 4-3-3, or 4-5-1 whichever way you want to see it, which included a defensive mid to a 4-4-2 shoehorning Grealish out wide. Given the personnel we have he somehow missed out the obvious dropping the natural defensive mid and going with a midfield 3 of Hourihane, Grealish and McGinn.

I think 4-3-3 is our best formation. Abraham is the natural one to have through the middle and I'd have Kodjia playing from the left, where I think he has shown he can be effective playing from, and Bolasie or El Ghazi the other side. It also allows Grealish to link up with Abraham or the freedom to pop up all over the final third. At the moment we are wasting our best player.

Edited September 24, 2018 by markavfc40

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Wenin Rome said:

Anything happened yet or just 2277 pages of ...

bluster?

[TRO]

33 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

And it's made worse by him now lacking the belief in his method to pick a side that would be better suited to what he knows - under Bruce we'd have a better chance of winning at the moment with a line up of:

-----------------------------------Nyland--------------------------------------

Elmo-------------Chester---------------Jedinak------------Hutton

---------------------Whelan---------------Bjarnason--------------------

------------McGinn---------Hourihane------Grealish---------------

----------------------------------Abraham-----------------------------------

It's the only thing I can come up with that would allow him to try to fall back on his natural "solid-with-chance-of-magic" ethos - you could maybe add Tuanzabe as a third CB and lose Bjarnason.

Bruce has dug himself a hole though where if he were to pick either of those sides he'd get absolutely slaughtered. He's got loads of attacking talent and he's under pressure to use it. It's that thing he used to do late in games when we were chasing a goal - bring on all the strikers but don't have any way of controlling the ball enough to get it to them - only now it's from the opening whistle. Until January.

You're absolutely right, he can't go from caterpillar to butterfly, he can't reinvent himself and learn how to be an attacking coach overnight - he's also put himself into a position where he can't pick a defensive line up - it's a mess.

 

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head, there.

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I agree with you to a point but I do think it is somewhat different having 3 or 4 strikers on the pitch to having a midfield 3 of Hourihane, McGinn and Grealish and two of Bolasie, El Ghazi, Adomah, Kodjia wide and either of Abraham or Kodjia up top. That midfield three and those wide players have more than enough about them to control the ball.

Strangely he went from a 4-3-3, or 4-5-1 whichever way you want to see it, which included a defensive mid to a 4-4-2 shoehorning Grealish out wide. Given the personnel we have he somehow missed out the obvious dropping the natural defensive mid and going with a midfield 3 of Hourihane, Grealish and McGinn.

I think 4-3-3 is our best formation. Abraham is the natural one to have through the middle and I'd have Kodjia playing from the left, where I think he has shown he can be effective playing from, and Bolasie or El Ghazi the other side. It also allows Grealish to link up with Abraham or the freedom to pop up all over the final third. At the moment we are wasting our best player.

The theory is fine.

but,who is meant to be turning the ball over or winning it?.....is McGinn enough to do that?

if we had players who can win it and scheme....like Cropley & Cowans, i would say fine.

Edited September 24, 2018 by TRO

[markavfc40]

8 minutes ago, TRO said:

The theory is fine.

but,who is meant to be turning the ball over or winning it?.....is McGinn enough to do that?

I think he is capable yes as he certainly likes to get stuck in but unlike Whelan and Jedi he can drive forward with the ball rather than looking to play it a few yards or hoof it forward. 

That defined sit in front of the back four defensive midfielder certainly has a place against certain opposition maybe but ours are so immobile it is like playing another centre back.

Hourihane, McGinn and Jack offer a nice blend. All three are more than capable of interchanging and getting up and down the pitch and as said McGinn likes a tackle and in fairness to Jack he showed last season he can do the dirty side and track back and get stuck in.

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I think he is capable yes as he certainly likes to get stuck in but unlike Whelan and Jedi he can drive forward with the ball rather than looking to play it a few yards or hoof it forward. 

That defined sit in front of the back four defensive midfielder certainly has a place against certain opposition maybe but ours are so immobile it is like playing another centre back.

Hourihane, McGinn and Jack offer a nice blend. All three are more than capable of interchanging and getting up and down the pitch and as said McGinn likes a tackle and in fairness to Jack he showed last season he can do the dirty side and track back and get stuck in.

I may be wrong, but I don't see Jack and Conor as players to rely on to turn the ball over, I think it is too much to ask McGinn to do all that.....I accept Jed and Whelan are too slow.

I think its tricky each midfielder has attributes, but they have weaknesses too.

Maybe if we had more versatile Centre Backs, who had pace and dominance, we wouldn't need a defensive midfielder in the role you suggest, so much.

Its many things that are wrong IMO....at the moment we are as OBE says a bit of a mess.

[pacbuddies]

2 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

No. 

@villabromsgrove‘s vies was that he wanted us to lose on Friday to get Bruce out. 

Your view was that people who didn’t agree with that were somehow less enlightened and couldn’t see what you could see. 

@villabromsgrove‘S post was about the game. Your post was about anyone who doesn’t agree with him. 

My apologies. In future I will attempt to come across less enlightened so as not to offend those who are, shall we say, less enlightened.

[Stevo985]

2 minutes ago, pacbuddies said:

My apologies. In future I will attempt to come across less enlightened so as not to offend those who are, shall we say, less enlightened.

Thanks. Apology accepted.

[MikeAVFC]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Wolves got Lambert as an interim manager until their main target of Nuno was available.

But if Lambert had really impressed in that time he might have kept his job.

We could always do something similar. Not with Lambert of course. 

True but actually Lambert at one point had Wolves on the verge of the relegation zone. In fact they flirted with relegation more under Lambert than Walter Zenga, so an interim manager doesn't always work. In fact an interim manager can make things worse if the appointment is wrong. That's my worry but I can see the argument for an interim to be fair. I suppose the atmosphere won't be so toxic with a stop gap than it would be if that clearing in the woods remains but it would have to be the right stop gap.

1 hour ago, foreveryoung said:

Was reading how the players are getting better and better at Wolves with Nuno. Made me think? Can we truely say any players Bruce and his team have coached, actually turned into better players here?? Can't think of any, Grealish had the skills long before Bruce.

I went to their game against Burnley last week with a Wolves mate of mine, and they were seriously impressive. It was literally men against boys despite the scoreline. They look a very well organised and well coached unit, and it's clear Nuno had improved average players like Conor Coady, Ryan Bennett, Matt Doherty for example into players who are confident and can compete at Premier league level. As you say, Bruce hasn't improved any player here. If anything, they were stars at their previous clubs before declining under SB's 'coaching'. Wolves sacked off Lambert and took a risk hiring a coach from abroad, with a recruitment plan and a style in mind. They did what we should have done a year ago - not settle for mediocre - sack the underperforming dinosaur and hire a top manager who can coach and develop players. Unfortunately we failed to do this and we're now paying the price. It is what it is unfortunately. 

[markavfc40]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

I may be wrong, but I don't see Jack and Conor as players to rely on to turn the ball over, I think it is too much to ask McGinn to do all that.....I accept Jed and Whelan are too slow.

I think its tricky each midfielder has attributes, but they have weaknesses too.

Maybe if we had more versatile Centre Backs, who had pace and dominance, we wouldn't need a defensive midfielder in the role you suggest, so much.

Its many things that are wrong IMO....at the moment we are as OBE says a bit of a mess.

He went from 3 in the middle with a defensive mid then 2 games ago went to a 2 with no defensive mid and moved Jack out wide. Surely a midfield 3 of McGinn, Hourihane and Jack gives more defensive protection than a 2 but offers more mobility and drive than a 3 with Jedi or Whelan. I think it is a happy medium between the overly cautious 3 in the midfield with the defined defensive mid of Jedi or Whelan or the perhaps too open 2 in the middle we have seen over the last week of Hourihane and McGinn. 

Edited September 24, 2018 by markavfc40

[Dave J]

4 hours ago, NurembergVillan said:

The Two Ron-nies.

As if these pair would keep out Little and Large ( Shaw/Withe )

[Kiwivillan]

52 minutes ago, markavfc40 said:

I think 4-3-3 is our best formation. Abraham is the natural one to have through the middle and I'd have Kodjia playing from the left, where I think he has shown he can be effective playing from, and Bolasie or El Ghazi the other side. It also allows Grealish to link up with Abraham or the freedom to pop up all over the final third. At the moment we are wasting our best player.

I only recall Kodjia being abjectly poor on left in 433. Remind of otherwise

[villalad21]

He even have the player's support?

[Villarocker]

Bruce needs to go 4-3-3. It was the lineup last season and needs to continue.

                                Nyland

Elmohamady   Tuanzebe  Chester   Hutton

                                Jedinak (or Whelan)

                                McGinn

Bolasie                  Grealish                Kodjia

                               Abraham       

[flashingqwerty]

I have no idea how SB is still in a job.

Either the owners have no balls, or FFP is a bigger issue than we know.

One thing for me is clear, we will be closer to relegation than promotion at the end of the season if we continue as we are.  That will cost us more than FFP ever could imo

[markavfc40]

12 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

I only recall Kodjia being abjectly poor on left in 433. Remind of otherwise

He played a good 5 or 6 games when he came back from injury at the start of September last season from out wide with Davis up top and did very well out there before he got injured again in October. I can also remember him getting goals against Brentford, QPR and Nowich in his first season where he was playing from out wide and cutting in.

 

[OutByEaster?]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

I agree with you to a point but I do think it is somewhat different having 3 or 4 strikers on the pitch to having a midfield 3 of Hourihane, McGinn and Grealish and two of Bolasie, El Ghazi, Adomah, Kodjia wide and either of Abraham or Kodjia up top. That midfield three and those wide players have more than enough about them to control the ball.

I think this is the bit that makes the rest difficult. It isn't Bruce's way; it's not what he's done throughout his career. He encourages a good shape, a solid base and hard work off the ball - hard to break down and hard to beat - but with the ball, the plan is get it to the dangerous men and see what they can do, maybe whip in crosses and see what happens - done well it's very effective - he didn't get the promotions by accident. It's entirely the wrong tactic for this squad. This squad that Bruce built. This squad would be much better if we were playing with attacking pattern, a method that's ingrained in the players - control of the ball, smart running, short passes - using all of the that creativity and ability on the ball to control games and keep teams off our back four - that's as unnatural to Bruce as riding a unicycle. The truly baffling thing is why he went out of his way to buy a unicycle shaped squad. He has set out over two years to put together a squad that is the antithesis of his footballing method.

Our back four aren't good enough to play without protection.

Our best midfield (and I agree with you on who they are) struggle without a solid back four behind them.

Our strikers look best as a pair - but for a pair you need a solid midfield in the middle of the park.

It doesn't fit together - and it's worth noting that whoever we bring in would need a magic wand to turn this squad into challengers for the title - it's only a slight exaggeration to describe it as the six best players in the championship plus me, my aunt, two blokes from the chippy and my nephew - coaching won't fix that, but a manager more adept at forward play, especially the type of quick, clever, patterned forward play our midfield and forwards are capable of could do a lot better than Bruce is imo.

 

[ForfarVillan]

14 hours ago, wilko154 said:

Dealing with an intellectual powerhouse here