Popular Post DaveAV1 Posted June 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2018 (edited) This time last summer those people who supported keeping Steve Bruce as manager, generally added the caveat, but we must start next season well and we must achieve automatic promotion. No excuses. First 7 games we got, I think, 7 points and finished fourth. What happened? The other great defence of SB is he brings stability. However, as he did at Sunderland, he turned over a huge amount of players, 27 I believe since he got here. Next season the spine of the team, including the captain will be gone. How is that remotely stable?? On top of that he hints he’s done it on a budget and had to rely on loan players, conveniently forgetting the huge wages they’re all on. Our wage bill has been described by outside observers as, “eye watering”. He’s like a Brighthouse shopper, nothing to pay up front, but a fortune per month. Brighthouse Brucie. Edited June 3, 2018 by DaveAV1 13 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 12 hours ago, Jareth said: If @omariqy figures are in the ball park then the case for retaining Bruce is a bit stronger. If we get to keep Grealish then it’s back to the loan market for a few and Bruce has great contacts. He will also have to flesh the squad out with the yoof too. Could work. Therefore #BruceIN. I am honestly not feeling any case for keeping Bruce - surely on the back of two failed attempts he must be replaced, we can't just hope for 3rd time lucky can we? I see nothing in the man to suggest he can go that extra mile to secure promotion next year 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 3, 2018 Author Share Posted June 3, 2018 30 minutes ago, DCJonah said: He has signed some decent players. However he has relied on those signed by rdm or already at the club far more than those he signed. He has improved us but it just isn't built on solid things. It's built on the character of a few individuals. Whenever a new manager comes in they will have to rebuild our style and system. We might as well do that now than waste another year waiting for it to happen. I’d agree with some of that mate. The problem was rdm couldn’t get the best out of them bruce has. Adomah looked bang average and Bruce had him scoring goals for fun. He has used jedinak well most of the season (although cockups like Sheffield united at home) the style of Bruce is crap to watch I agree but it’s effective. A lot of people feel bruce won’t be able to achieve the same success, but I’m not so sure. I think Bruce is experienced in this league. If he is willing to stay on an£ roll his sleeves than walk despite the tough conditions that’s admirable in my eyes. bruce needs to implement more youngsters this year without question and not rely so heavily on players like whelan jedinak Hutton who are coming to the end of their careers. has to for me be thinking about using the likes of green Davis RHM and bree. But it needs to be a good balance. If we go in with a complete young side we will get torn apart in this league and that will shatter their progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 3, 2018 Author Share Posted June 3, 2018 13 minutes ago, Dave J said: I am honestly not feeling any case for keeping Bruce - surely on the back of two failed attempts he must be replaced, we can't just hope for 3rd time lucky can we? I see nothing in the man to suggest he can go that extra mile to secure promotion next year First season was a mess I don’t think it’s fair to say the first was a failed attempt. This season was though I’d agree but it was on,y just. Not sackable offence for me. If he starts as badly as this year than yeah 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 5 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I’d agree with some of that mate. The problem was rdm couldn’t get the best out of them bruce has. Adomah looked bang average and Bruce had him scoring goals for fun. He has used jedinak well most of the season (although cockups like Sheffield united at home) the style of Bruce is crap to watch I agree but it’s effective. A lot of people feel bruce won’t be able to achieve the same success, but I’m not so sure. I think Bruce is experienced in this league. If he is willing to stay on an£ roll his sleeves than walk despite the tough conditions that’s admirable in my eyes. bruce needs to implement more youngsters this year without question and not rely so heavily on players like whelan jedinak Hutton who are coming to the end of their careers. has to for me be thinking about using the likes of green Davis RHM and bree. But it needs to be a good balance. If we go in with a complete young side we will get torn apart in this league and that will shatter their progress. And yet his crap to watch, effective style has failed to meet any targets set in 18 months. What's the point in continuing with that? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 10 hours ago, TRO said: So a guy c10 years older, who has equally had more clubs than Jack Nicklolas....does it. He brought in 4 players and paid for1......work that one out , with modern day football in mind You are barking up the wrong tree mate. We never got it right.....but what you're alluding to is fanciful. You get the right players in the right positions doing the right job....and you are half way there....Neil Warnock did that. Steve never got it quite right imo, but nearly did. hindsight is an exact science, but we had a good go, with what we had. Agree with a lot of this but would say Warnock did it the way he always did it - we need Bruce to change in his approach and I don’t think he can . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 9 hours ago, TRO said: You have to be mindful. Warnock and jokanovic, failed to get promotion with their current teams, in their first season. they have now got it, with their clubs sticking with them....and we just missed it. so it takes us a season longer, who knows. Johnstone, JT ,snoddy, grabban have already gone - 4 of our better players last season - we will be weakened further without doubt with sales a certainty - Bruce failed with that team - he won’t get promotion having lost half that team and with no money to spend . it needs a rethink of the plan as xia indicated - big changes are needed . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 2 hours ago, Junxs said: Yet, he is now faced with complete opposite of a budget to that he had last year.. my comment was in regards to the coming season, its obvious we are going to have to use many players from the u23s and probably wont even be able to pick up any decent frees or loans He got close last year, with what many consider to be the best squad in the league (not to mention the most expensive one this league has ever seen). Even all the bookies had us down as favourites to win the tiel, do you think Man City would have settled for 4th? I just don't think Bruces brand of football would be suited to an inexperienced side Not only that but the u23 played some pleasing football to watch - Bruce will have them change into his negative cautious style - no point round banging on about about the villa engine and style of football when the manager is as negative as they come . 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 32 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I’d agree with some of that mate. The problem was rdm couldn’t get the best out of them bruce has. Adomah looked bang average and Bruce had him scoring goals for fun. He has used jedinak well most of the season (although cockups like Sheffield united at home) the style of Bruce is crap to watch I agree but it’s effective. A lot of people feel bruce won’t be able to achieve the same success, but I’m not so sure. I think Bruce is experienced in this league. If he is willing to stay on an£ roll his sleeves than walk despite the tough conditions that’s admirable in my eyes. bruce needs to implement more youngsters this year without question and not rely so heavily on players like whelan jedinak Hutton who are coming to the end of their careers. has to for me be thinking about using the likes of green Davis RHM and bree. But it needs to be a good balance. If we go in with a complete young side we will get torn apart in this league and that will shatter their progress. I don’t agree Bruce gets the best out of them . That squad was good enough but too often failed to perform and I lost count how many times he said he had no idea why it happened . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 10 hours ago, TRO said: You have to be mindful. Warnock and jokanovic, failed to get promotion with their current teams, in their first season. they have now got it, with their clubs sticking with them....and we just missed it. so it takes us a season longer, who knows. True, but they looked like the had a plan and a philosophy they were sticking too. Nearly 2 years on and I have no idea what our style is and the only plan is, stick a load of experienced players together and hope for the best! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Platt Posted June 3, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 3, 2018 There was a plan it was give it to Snodgrass or Adomah. Or hoof it long. Then it was give it to Jack. Fairly basic plan but it worked a lot of the time because there are some seriously shit teams in this league. The seriously shit teams are still there but will we have the 3 players he relied on is the question. 1 gone 2 left at the moment. Kodija > Grabben Green > Snodgrass New Loan > Terry Steer > Johnstone Think we all agree Jack is key keep him we have a chance whoever is manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 1 hour ago, DaveAV1 said: He’s like a Brighthouse shopper, nothing to pay up front, but a fortune per month. Brighthouse Brucie. Brilliant Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: First season was a mess I don’t think it’s fair to say the first was a failed attempt. This season was though I’d agree but it was on,y just. Not sackable offence for me. If he starts as badly as this year than yeah I honestly believe that the play offs were his target in his first season - otherwise why after 11 games would the club have moved to sack RDM ? He didn't achieve this feat and therefore he failed imo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 59 minutes ago, Dave J said: I honestly believe that the play offs were his target in his first season - otherwise why after 11 games would the club have moved to sack RDM ? He didn't achieve this feat and therefore he failed imo He said himself on the day he joined promotion was still the aim that season and even Said he took blues over in a worse situation in December and got them up the same season 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted June 3, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 3, 2018 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: First season was a mess I don’t think it’s fair to say the first was a failed attempt. This season was though I’d agree but it was on,y just. Not sackable offence for me. If he starts as badly as this year than yeah Part of me wants to agree with that, but think about it for a moment. It means Bruce does the rebuild this summer, which is risky, he's paid good money for Hogan and completely refused to bend his tactics to suit him. There is not much room for mistakes of that magnitude now. He also doesn't have a great history in the transfer market or of building teams. It means Bruce getting 7 points from 7 games again or similar at the start of the season and then getting the boot. That would leave us with no way of fixing the broken rebuild job, and massively playing catch up again. Would mean the season is a write off essentially and we're ****. Not a given the summer goes badly of course I guess, but if we get a bad start again it's a massive hill to climb as we saw this season. Especially if the new manager (hopefully) brings a different style of play as it'll take time to implement without a pre-season. Minimum for me in this case is we bring in a director of football with a plan and he works with Bruce in the transfer market. Would mean there's a project and a plan to the purchases thinking longer term regardless of who is head coach/manager down the line. Might soften the blow of changin manager a bit. I think at this point though, I'd take it as an opportunity to hire a DoF, head coach, and build a new team. Admittedly on a budget but it's looking increasingly necessary to play good football to get out of this league, Warnock's Cardiff for me were an exception to the rule. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Keyblade Posted June 3, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 3, 2018 Given Tony's statement, I honestly don't see how he's not sacked. If we have to rethink the way we do things, how does it make sense to keep Bruce's famed 'stability'? If he couldn't achieve promotion with all the resources he had this season, how is he going to do it with a good chunk of those players gone and not much if any resources to reinvest? If the aim isn't necessarily promotion this season, but a development of a new method/style/ethos/culture or whatever, then obviously Bruce has to go to facilitate this new paradigm. I can't think of a scenario in which it is advantageous to keep him. If we want promotion now, he doesn't have the tools he needs to deliver it. If we want to steadily build towards sustainable promotion, he's not the man to cultivate that. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 15 minutes ago, Keyblade said: , then obviously Bruce has to go to facilitate this new paradigm I agree with the sentiment entirely. However more importantly I think Keyblade deserves an award for being the first man in history to use the word, “paradigm” in a football blog. Take a bow sir! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 So we should have gone with a long term plan in the first place. Instead we gambled on Bruce ignoring what was going on the pitch where time and time again he proved he was an inconsistent failure. Now people want to give him another season, with a worse squad and expect him to bring the youngsters through as well? Hilarious. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted June 3, 2018 Visiting Supporter Share Posted June 3, 2018 13 hours ago, TRO said: Steve never got it quite right imo, but nearly did. hindsight is an exact science, but we had a good go, with what we had. Sorry to cut your post up TRO but this caught my eye, particularly ‘we had a good go, with what we had.’ Do you think Villa did as well as they could with the squad available or underachieved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted June 3, 2018 Visiting Supporter Share Posted June 3, 2018 12 hours ago, TRO said: But that team, with those players failed. We still have Jed Steer, we still have Chester, hourihane, Albert, Kodjia, Jack, Bjarnasson, Lansbury, Bree, We need to get 2 players right.....centre forward and Centre Half. Warnock brought it Hoillet and Bamba on free's......it can be done. but we can't be expecting promotion, every season, because we are Aston Villa, we have to prove it where it matters an so far, we haven't despite coming close. sorry mate, but we have to go back to the older days of buying smarter, like Graham Taylor did.....and many managers in the championship, who have players who could give ours a hard time. May be wrong here but wasn’t it RDM that spend most of the money while apart from Hogan Bruce had to adopt ‘the older days of buying smarter?’ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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