Steve Bruce

[Guest av1]

8 minutes ago, Junxs said:

You're asking a very old dog to learn new tricks. 

Agree. Bruce will never change, it's just his make-up, and the reason he waited 20yrs to get a gig at a big club in the championship. 

[Demitri_C]

11 hours ago, tinker said:

Terry's wages alone would amount to a fair amount, add Snodgrass Whelan and Grabben , who played in Hogan's place, who Bruce purchased. Landsbury who he never played and Bree , also someone he never played. Their wages alone add a considerable amount . Did any of the teams promoted spend more on players and their wages ? Maybe Wolves .

He was backed and failed , his football was poor and the results inconsistent, heaven knows what would have happened should we had got promoted. He's a decent manager but not good enough to turn us into the team we want with the resources he now has 

Plenty of clubs have managers who have took low spending clubs into league's well above their perceived level.

Was terry a good signing or not?

Are we seriously going to start not picking in wages of players like bree and lansbury? Really anything to beat bruce with

Results were consistent most if the season the shit start an d the period after wolves is what cost us badly.

Plenty of managers have have they? Name me a manager at this level who has maanged that the club the size of villa in this league? Wolves expectations are not as high as here. Either are cardiffs or fulhams.

We can't recruit anyone just to get bruce it has to be someone who can handle pressure. Someone like Dean smithbfor example he hasn't managed a big club and he gets a lot if help behind the scenes.

I honestly don't know what we should do if we get rid of bruce. Go for a younger manager like Leeds did and he flopped and was sacked less than 6 momths in? Get a European unknown who has no idea how this league operates ? We can't poach anyone as we have no.money.

Only person I can think if out of work that I think could get us up is alladyce and I don't think he will be interested

[TRO]

2 hours ago, Junxs said:

You're asking a very old dog to learn new tricks. 

So a guy c10 years older, who has equally had more clubs than Jack Nicklolas....does it.

He brought in 4 players and paid for1......work that one out , with modern day football in mind

You are barking up the wrong tree mate.

We never got it right.....but what you're alluding to is fanciful.

You get the right players in the right positions doing the right job....and you are half way there....Neil Warnock did that.

Steve never got it quite right imo, but nearly did.

hindsight is an exact science, but we had a good go, with what we had.

Edited June 2, 2018 by TRO

[DCJonah]

Previously i feared time with bruce was wasted time. I'm now certain of it. He won't get us up and when he eventually goes he won't leave anything to be picked up and tweaked for improvements. His mess will require a complete change. We might as well do that now after he failed for the 2nd consecutive season. 

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Previously i feared time with bruce was wasted time. I'm now certain of it. He won't get us up and when he eventually goes he won't leave anything to be picked up and tweaked for improvements. His mess will require a complete change. We might as well do that now after he failed for the 2nd consecutive season. 

There may be many inquests to be had on our season and we got some things wrong.

but a wasted time with Bruce.....never in a million years.

We just missed out, lets not dismiss the good stuff that has been done or that we just missed out.

If you feel what you say to be true, whether he continues or a new manager takes over, i fear you are in for a depressing time, if you cannot identify improvement.

[Kuwabatake Sanjuro]

If he starts the season we will have to wait for the inevitable 10 game winless streak to sack him. Get someone in as soon as possible and let them build a squad on whatever budget is available. It will need to be somebody capable of nurturing youth which Bruce has no real track record of doing so.

[Fairy In Boots]

Absolutely scandalous it’s even being considered he’s been a huge failure. I won’t be financially backing them till he’s gone, I’m sick of the bloke

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

There may be many inquests to be had on our season and we got some things wrong.

but a wasted time with Bruce.....never in a million years.

We just missed out, lets not dismiss the good stuff that has been done or that we just missed out.

If you feel what you say to be true, whether he continues or a new manager takes over, i fear you are in for a depressing time, if you cannot identify improvement.

There have been improvements but its not built on anything. Mainly it seems to be an attitude improvement, which will leave when players leave, terry already gone. 

He hasn't built a playing style or implemented a system. Now he starts to lose the individual talent he has relied far too much on, what is there? And i struggle to believe he was the only one who could have brought these improvements. 

Now we need to build, if we stick with Bruce it will be more wasted time. He failed. 

 

[TRO]

21 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

There have been improvements but its not built on anything. Mainly it seems to be an attitude improvement, which will leave when players leave, terry already gone. 

He hasn't built a playing style or implemented a system. Now he starts to lose the individual talent he has relied far too much on, what is there? And i struggle to believe he was the only one who could have brought these improvements. 

Now we need to build, if we stick with Bruce it will be more wasted time. He failed. 

 

Well, i disagree, I think JT has had an influence that is contagious and has left its mark on the club ......dare i say this, but i think a sol bamba or a sean Morrison type will serve us better if we can get one.....Johns time caught up with him in my opinion. That is not me being ungrateful of dismissive of hm.

What we need imo......is gettable.

I think you are right, about the playing style, but i think a  couple of key inclusions at centre half and a leader of the line, who can capitalise on crosses and i think you will see a more balanced shape, that may well have a knock on effect to what you are looking for.

We need to build a team, not buy a team.....We need to learn from what we have done, not dismantle.

Jokanovic was given the opportunity to add a leader of the line to his team in Mitrovic, after he failed in his first season and their patience paid dividends.

Edited June 2, 2018 by TRO

[jim]

32 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Previously i feared time with bruce was wasted time. I'm now certain of it. He won't get us up and when he eventually goes he won't leave anything to be picked up and tweaked for improvements. His mess will require a complete change. We might as well do that now after he failed for the 2nd consecutive season. 

Exactly this!

He won’t change and IF he stays this season we will be an even worse position this time next year we won’t be getting promoted under his regime, he had his best shot and failed twice.

Getting rid now makes the most sense as a rebuild is needed and Steve Bruce is not the man for that job. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, jim said:

Exactly this!

He won’t change and IF he stays this season we will be an even worse position this time next year we won’t be getting promoted under his regime, he had his best shot and failed twice.

Getting rid now makes the most sense as a rebuild is needed and Steve Bruce is not the man for that job. 

A rebuild is not required,if i sense your context.... but weaknesses, do need to be addressed.

thats assuming more don't leave.

Edited June 2, 2018 by TRO

[terrytini]

Agree with 90% of @TRO and 90% of @DCJonah...........and although the percentages may not be as high I suspect many fans could do both, it really isn’t black and white......how could it be, we didn’t romp the League and we didn’t fail miserably either....we didn’t score enough goals but increased our tally massively, we didn’t stay tight enough in defence but still had loads of clean sheets......we weren’t Barcelona but we had spells when we looked like we could beat anybody......we failed Away at Wolves, Fulham, and Cardiff, yet beat all 3 at Home.........we were without Kodja and Jack for a lot of games........

......anybody could pick any period of real failure....many would choose ‘Post Wolves’..........I’d choose 7 Points from the first 7 games........if you do the former, you probably are less keen on him.....if you choose the latter, then as I do you see a huge amount of progress since September/ October...........

......has he been negative ?...yes.....at times....was it warranted ? Who knows ? Who knows whether we’d have been 10 Points better off, or 10 Points worse off had we ‘ gone for it’ a bit more......

....does he restrict kids......yes if you ask O Hare, or RHM.......but what about Green , and Davies ?

.....is he a clueless dinosaur...or just one of many Managers that work from a clean sheet first approach ? It’s unlikely he’s totally unaware of when he’s bringing players in, or bringing them on......it’s just judgment calls.....

.....could anyone have restored the character in the side, epitomised by our late goals conceded being up with the best ? If they could, how come that character has gone downhill, arguably since MONs third season ?

On the other hand.....is he a builder ?............what about those dreadful performances......if the character is so much better how do we explain the Post Wolves problems, and, especially, Norwich Away ?

.....can the Club afford to be conservative when so many others are ‘ modernising’ ?.........is it really an argument to say the next guy could be worse ?.......he could be way better......

In my view the only way the decision can be made optimal is to have full knowledge of what the plan is, who is staying who is going, what other Managers are available, what resource they’d want, what Bruce’s answers are to the - legitimate - negatives.....and so on..

...and we aren’t now or ever going to have that knowledge.....so, for me, I will go along with what they decide, and assume they know what they are doing and why until the evidence suggests - clearly - otherwise.

[TRO]

20 minutes ago, jim said:

Exactly this!

He won’t change and IF he stays this season we will be an even worse position this time next year we won’t be getting promoted under his regime, he had his best shot and failed twice.

Getting rid now makes the most sense as a rebuild is needed and Steve Bruce is not the man for that job. 

Failed twice......are you referring to his first season, when he was trying to raise the Titanic......you're having a laugh Jim.

Neil warnock, only finished on the same points after starting at the same time as SB and they were both near the bottom.

The next season ( this one) Cardiff never expected promotion, no pressure, we conversely did by spending on experienced players.

It didn't work for us.....and it did for them.

spending big money has rarely worked for us in our history, maybe, because most of the time we haven't had it......Doug kept us poor in the transfer market, so we had to be shrewd.

I think since he went.....We have lost our way in that respect ,alone.

We are like a thirsty man in the dessert, give him a drink and he gorges himself, into choking.

Edited June 2, 2018 by TRO

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, terrytini said:

Agree with 90% of @TRO and 90% of @DCJonah...........and although the percentages may not be as high I suspect many fans could do both, it really isn’t black and white......how could it be, we didn’t romp the League and we didn’t fail miserably either....we didn’t score enough goals but increased our tally massively, we didn’t stay tight enough in defence but still had loads of clean sheets......we weren’t Barcelona but we had spells when we looked like we could beat anybody......we failed Away at Wolves, Fulham, and Cardiff, yet beat all 3 at Home.........we were without Kodja and Jack for a lot of games........

......anybody could pick any period of real failure....many would choose ‘Post Wolves’..........I’d choose 7 Points from the first 7 games........if you do the former, you probably are less keen on him.....if you choose the latter, then as I do you see a huge amount of progress since September/ October...........

......has he been negative ?...yes.....at times....was it warranted ? Who knows ? Who knows whether we’d have been 10 Points better off, or 10 Points worse off had we ‘ gone for it’ a bit more......

....does he restrict kids......yes if you ask O Hare, or RHM.......but what about Green , and Davies ?

.....is he a clueless dinosaur...or just one of many Managers that work from a clean sheet first approach ? It’s unlikely he’s totally unaware of when he’s bringing players in, or bringing them on......it’s just judgment calls.....

.....could anyone have restored the character in the side, epitomised by our late goals conceded being up with the best ? If they could, how come that character has gone downhill, arguably since MONs third season ?

On the other hand.....is he a builder ?............what about those dreadful performances......if the character is so much better how do we explain the Post Wolves problems, and, especially, Norwich Away ?

.....can the Club afford to be conservative when so many others are ‘ modernising’ ?.........is it really an argument to say the next guy could be worse ?.......he could be way better......

In my view the only way the decision can be made optimal is to have full knowledge of what the plan is, who is staying who is going, what other Managers are available, what resource they’d want, what Bruce’s answers are to the - legitimate - negatives.....and so on..

...and we aren’t now or ever going to have that knowledge.....so, for me, I will go along with what they decide, and assume they know what they are doing and why until the evidence suggests - clearly - otherwise.

I concur.

[jim]

12 minutes ago, TRO said:

Failed twice......are you referring to his first season, when he was trying to raise the Titanic......you're having a laugh Jim.

 

By his own admission and from the good Dr himself the target was reaching the playoffs. So yes, he failed.

Also we were not in as bad as state as you are making out. 

We tried Steve’s way and it didn’t work out, and it won’t work next season either. 

[TRO]

You have to be mindful.

Warnock and jokanovic, failed to get promotion with their current teams, in their first season.

they have now got it, with their clubs sticking with them....and we just missed it.

so it takes us a season longer, who knows.

[thabucks]

30 minutes ago, TRO said:

A rebuild is not required, but weaknesses, do need to be addressed.

thats assuming more don't leave.

You do realise the spine of how team has gone with Johnstone , Terry, snodgrass, Grabban gone with more to follow and you say we don t need a rebuild .... ok ?! 

Add to that jedinak & Whealan a year older, onomah gone, Hutton maybe leaving. Taylor is shit elphick is shit and has hardly  played in three seasons due to injury and form. Ageing squad low on quality with untested youth as Bruce didn't have the managerial ability to utilise and trust them. Yep no rebuild required ...... lol 

[TRO]

32 minutes ago, jim said:

By his own admission and from the good Dr himself the target was reaching the playoffs. So yes, he failed.

Also we were not in as bad as state as you are making out. 

We tried Steve’s way and it didn’t work out, and it won’t work next season either. 

• So maybe the expectation, is strangling us....maybe bruce had to agree, because the club wanted it.....Cardiff never had those fanciful expectations.
• We were much worse Jim.....we were like Sunderland....you seem to underestimate it.
• It may have been Steve's way.....It may have been the club's way....but no it didn't work, but we come mighty close.
• you don't know that it won't work next season anymore than i know it will, but 2 managers who failed in 2016/17 had another go and done it.

If you are playing tipping point and a bunch of discs are hanging over drop zone 1, after missing out, do you then go to drop zone 4?....No, you continue.

I don't think we will be as badly off as some think with our first team plans....but certain mistakes will need to be fixed......on paper we had some tremendous players, but we were beaten to the punch, by teams with so called lesser players, maybe in theory, we was right, but maybe in practice they were.

The club may need to rethink....and perhaps we do too.

Edited June 2, 2018 by TRO

[TRO]

23 minutes ago, thabucks said:

You do realise the spine of how team has gone with Johnstone , Terry, snodgrass, Grabban gone with more to follow and you say we don t need a rebuild .... ok ?! 

Add to that jedinak & Whealan a year older, onomah gone, Hutton maybe leaving. Taylor is shit elphick is shit and has hardly  played in three seasons due to injury and form. Ageing squad low on quality with untested youth as Bruce didn't have the managerial ability to utilise and trust them. Yep no rebuild required ...... lol 

But that team, with those players failed.

We still have Jed Steer, we still have Chester, hourihane, Albert, Kodjia, Jack, Bjarnasson, Lansbury, Bree,

We need to get 2 players right.....centre forward and Centre Half.

Warnock brought it Hoillet and Bamba on free's......it can be done.

but we can't be expecting promotion, every season, because we are Aston Villa, we have to prove it where it matters an so far, we haven't despite coming close.

sorry mate, but we have to go back to the older days of buying smarter, like Graham Taylor did.....and many managers in the championship, who have players who could give ours a hard time.

Edited June 2, 2018 by TRO

[DaveAV1]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

sorry mate, but we have to back to the older days of buying smarter, like Graham Taylor did.....and many managers in the championship, who have players who could give ours a hard time.

Which is exactly what Jokanovic and Warnock did and Bruce didn’t.