Steve Bruce

[srsmithusa]

9 hours ago, DakotaVilla said:

Us staying up those two seasons was pretty much entirely down to Benteke.

And the manager that signed him and set up a team to support him had nothing to do with it.   Makes it hard to understand how benteke did )()& all since he left.  Puzzling. 

[DaveAV1]

7 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Bruce pin up jonkavics comments about us on the wall. If that isn't a team talk I don't know what is

The arrogance of them. They really do think this is going to be a walk in the park for them

What did he say?

[ferguson1]

3 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

What did he say?

A detailed synopsis would be:  Old, Slow and Shite.     I may have exaggerated the truth a little.  

[villa89]

1 hour ago, ferguson1 said:

A detailed synopsis would be:  Old, Slow and Shite.     I may have exaggerated the truth a little.  

He got the first two right anyway.

[Lord Willard]

I feel Bruce has conducted interviews and the team very well leading up to this game. Himself and the team are all level headed and know it's going to be a lot of hard work. 

Fulham are so over confident, saying the games in the bag and the manager calling our players old and past it. 

I think we'll win because of this. 

You don't hear Real Madrid saying they've got the Champions league in the bag? They know it'll be tough against liverpool because they are experienced and know no game is easy. 

Fulham are in for a shock I think. 

[sne]

It's just press nonsense.

Pretty sure both teams are confident of winning and equally aware that it's going to be a difficult game.

[rubberman]

Come on Steve.  This is your time to put all that experience to work.  Bring it home.

[briny_ear]

5 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

What did he say?

I thought he was quite respectful actually, emphasising the Fulham players mustn’t be overawed by a more experienced side.

He did reveal his masterly plan for dealing with John Terry:

Quote

We have assessed the strengths and weaknesses of the Villa side."

And the Serbian also has a plan for Terry, whom he played with at Chelsea.

"We are going to try and put up against him some fast and strong players and I hope he makes a mistake," he added.

"All of us can make some mistakes and I expect he might make some mistake."

Hmm, this man is truly a tactical genius. No wonder his team got to third in the Championship. 

[TRO]

On 21/05/2018 at 23:10, TheStagMan said:

What you and TRO in your haste to criticize people who complain (or comment) about Bruce-ball - fail to realise is that its not the style of football that is the main concern - it is the implications of the style. 

What I (and others) and surely yourself want is a long-term sustainable upward trajectory for Villa. My main concerns with Bruce's results to-date have been the fact that a lot of the wins looked less than convincing (dare I say lucky). Now this has improved certainly during the second half of the season whereby the run of wins did feel more convincing, and there wasn't the feeling that the wheels were going to come off at any moment as there was last year, although they did, and as a result, we are in the playoffs rather than automatic (which was within our grasp - just - at one point).

Watching games where we defend deep and spend 20 mins + in a game pinned in our penalty area hoofing the ball up the pitch for it to come straight back is not, to me the way to build a sustainable future for us. OK, it worked in the semi final first leg, and you could argue that the end justifies the means. If you are happy seeing that style of play then that's your choice, I'm not happy with it, it won't work all the time, and when it stops working it will have a snowball effect. I want to see an Aston Villa team that play with confidence and swagger and take the game to the opposition, now I realise that is not going to happen for the first season or two if we do get promoted, but by god it should have been happening in the Championship, and there were flashes of it proving that it could be done, and based on that I believe we could have got automatic if our manager had been a bit bolder. 

Now you will say - why dwell on that, it has gone. But the fact that it is in the past does not change the fact that it happened, and the need to see continued and sustainable improvements still exists. Repeating the same thing will usually have the same results.

As for the highlighted bit.. its not my words, but I agree with them (minus your added hyperbole). Do you not push yourself to improve all the time, do you not analyse your own actions and strive to do better? I certainly do. That's not to say you should not enjoy the successes and victories and be proud of them (absolutely), but certainly in my working life (and personal) I look at what I have done, even when it has gone well and look at ways to improve, simplify or streamline things. 

In my opinion, until Villa are winning the league and playing CL football regularly, they need to be doing the same, or are you happy with the idea of us being either a yo-yo club, or one that ferrets around in the lower reaches of the PL, considering a successful season being one where we are not relegated?

 

Now, that said.... Bring on Fulham, let's do this!

 

I'm not criticizing anyone....I am just defending Steve Bruce, when I think he deserves defending.

Where i disagree with you.....you talk in a manner that everything that happens on the pitch is down to Steve Bruce.

The ball coming straight back is not what the manager has in mind, its players not imposing themselves and losing their individual battles.....Now if you say fetch them off then and put someone on who can, Firstly you have to have someone and then they have to be better at what you are not getting from the player your taking off.

The manager can't play the game for them.

• He can tell/advise them what to do
• He can buy better players.( with the permission of the club)
• He can swap the player with a sub

You talk in a vein that seems to suggest that everything we do wrong on the pitch is of the managers doing......I disagree......but that equally is not to say he is blameless either.

as for improving.....I don't think for one minute that Steve Bruce doesn't want to improve his players, of course he does......He see's what we see.

Steve Bruce knows his players and their capabilities better than me ......He knows their energy levels better than me, and he doesn't ask them to do what they are incapable of doing.

On Saturday, Fulham will play, I imagine their normal game, its the only way they can play ,I suspect.

I have no idea, what we plan to do, but I would suspect SB will set us up to win the game in the best way HE feels his players have of winning.

Will that that be all out gungho .......or will it be park the bus. Quick frankly I don't care as long as we gain promotion.

 

[Tomaszk]

On 21/05/2018 at 23:10, TheStagMan said:

What you and TRO in your haste to criticize people who complain (or comment) about Bruce-ball - fail to realise is that its not the style of football that is the main concern - it is the implications of the style. 

What I (and others) and surely yourself want is a long-term sustainable upward trajectory for Villa. My main concerns with Bruce's results to-date have been the fact that a lot of the wins looked less than convincing (dare I say lucky). Now this has improved certainly during the second half of the season whereby the run of wins did feel more convincing, and there wasn't the feeling that the wheels were going to come off at any moment as there was last year, although they did, and as a result, we are in the playoffs rather than automatic (which was within our grasp - just - at one point).

Watching games where we defend deep and spend 20 mins + in a game pinned in our penalty area hoofing the ball up the pitch for it to come straight back is not, to me the way to build a sustainable future for us. OK, it worked in the semi final first leg, and you could argue that the end justifies the means. If you are happy seeing that style of play then that's your choice, I'm not happy with it, it won't work all the time, and when it stops working it will have a snowball effect. I want to see an Aston Villa team that play with confidence and swagger and take the game to the opposition, now I realise that is not going to happen for the first season or two if we do get promoted, but by god it should have been happening in the Championship, and there were flashes of it proving that it could be done, and based on that I believe we could have got automatic if our manager had been a bit bolder. 

Now you will say - why dwell on that, it has gone. But the fact that it is in the past does not change the fact that it happened, and the need to see continued and sustainable improvements still exists. Repeating the same thing will usually have the same results.

As for the highlighted bit.. its not my words, but I agree with them (minus your added hyperbole). Do you not push yourself to improve all the time, do you not analyse your own actions and strive to do better? I certainly do. That's not to say you should not enjoy the successes and victories and be proud of them (absolutely), but certainly in my working life (and personal) I look at what I have done, even when it has gone well and look at ways to improve, simplify or streamline things. 

In my opinion, until Villa are winning the league and playing CL football regularly, they need to be doing the same, or are you happy with the idea of us being either a yo-yo club, or one that ferrets around in the lower reaches of the PL, considering a successful season being one where we are not relegated?

 

Now, that said.... Bring on Fulham, let's do this!

 

Super post.

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, Tomaszk said:

Super post.

Agree.

I don’t consider Bruce doesn’t play aggressively, nor that we are negative, nor that our football is in some way inferior, nor that we play with no swagger.

I do agree October 2916 to October 2017 wasn’t great.....but I know think I see why.

Nor do I agree that the style isn’t the main concern, it is with some.

But it was enjoyable and pleasant to read a well reasoned and perfectly logical Post on the topic.

[briny_ear]

2 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Super post.

Well, if a post that rewrites the past and speculates wildly and unjustifiably about the future can be described as  "super", yes, I suppose it is!

[sheepyvillian]

12 hours ago, ferguson1 said:

A detailed synopsis would be:  Old, Slow and Shite.     I may have exaggerated the truth a little.  

Tbh, old and slow, I can see where he's coming from. At times we do have a tendency to be ponderous. As for us being shite, as long as we're not on Saturday, I myself, couldn't give a shite.

[TheStagMan]

2 hours ago, briny_ear said:

Well, if a post that rewrites the past and speculates wildly and unjustifiably about the future can be described as  "super", yes, I suppose it is!

Exactly which bit of the past was re-written and what was the wild speculation? 

 

Edited May 25, 2018 by TheStagMan

[TheStagMan]

5 hours ago, TRO said:

I'm not criticizing anyone....I am just defending Steve Bruce, when I think he deserves defending.

Where i disagree with you.....you talk in a manner that everything that happens on the pitch is down to Steve Bruce.

The ball coming straight back is not what the manager has in mind, its players not imposing themselves and losing their individual battles.....Now if you say fetch them off then and put someone on who can, Firstly you have to have someone and then they have to be better at what you are not getting from the player your taking off.

The manager can't play the game for them.

• He can tell/advise them what to do
• He can buy better players.( with the permission of the club)
• He can swap the player with a sub

You talk in a vein that seems to suggest that everything we do wrong on the pitch is of the managers doing......I disagree......but that equally is not to say he is blameless either.

as for improving.....I don't think for one minute that Steve Bruce doesn't want to improve his players, of course he does......He see's what we see.

Steve Bruce knows his players and their capabilities better than me ......He knows their energy levels better than me, and he doesn't ask them to do what they are incapable of doing.

On Saturday, Fulham will play, I imagine their normal game, its the only way they can play ,I suspect.

I have no idea, what we plan to do, but I would suspect SB will set us up to win the game in the best way HE feels his players have of winning.

Will that that be all out gungho .......or will it be park the bus. Quick frankly I don't care as long as we gain promotion.

 

So, please explain to me why I have seen games where our players control the ball, keep possession and play with confidence. This to me indicates that the players are more than capable. 

The only reason for them sitting back and hoofing the ball back up the pitch has to be managerial. Either they are being told to do it, or they are not being told to stop doing it.

I get that things can happen during a game that the manager can do nothing about. Absolutely and he cannot be blamed for those, but something that happens regularly can only be pointed at the manager. It is interesting to see you say that he is not blameless for what happens on the pitch because your earlier posts would suggest that he had absolutely no control over what happened on the pitch. In which case why even bother to have a manager. However whenever anything good happens on the pitch he seems to get the credit which is a bit one-sided don't you think?

 

Anyway - my original post here was in response to a particular post to try and explain why some people (myself included) are concerned about the style of football produced, not to restart a how good/how bad is Bruce thread - its been done to death, so let's agree to a truce and get behind the team (and the manager) for tomorrow. One thing we do agree on is that promotion is what matters.

[TRO]

Bruce- ball

what on Earth is this ridiculous description of a game of football.....Its is beyond belief anyone can write such absolute drivel and use such a pathetic way of attempting to describe our managers attempt to win a game.

I accept differences of opinion on how the game should be played.....and contrary to my stance of defending SB.....i would like Aston Villa to play like Man City, but unless we have their players its a pipe dream.

Come on guys, tell me its a joke and I have missed it.

[TRO]

23 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

So, please explain to me why I have seen games where our players control the ball, keep possession and play with confidence. This to me indicates that the players are more than capable. 

The only reason for them sitting back and hoofing the ball back up the pitch has to be managerial. Either they are being told to do it, or they are not being told to stop doing it.

I get that things can happen during a game that the manager can do nothing about. Absolutely and he cannot be blamed for those, but something that happens regularly can only be pointed at the manager. It is interesting to see you say that he is not blameless for what happens on the pitch because your earlier posts would suggest that he had absolutely no control over what happened on the pitch. In which case why even bother to have a manager. However whenever anything good happens on the pitch he seems to get the credit which is a bit one-sided don't you think?

 

Anyway - my original post here was in response to a particular post to try and explain why some people (myself included) are concerned about the style of football produced, not to restart a how good/how bad is Bruce thread - its been done to death, so let's agree to a truce and get behind the team (and the manager) for tomorrow. One thing we do agree on is that promotion is what matters.

Form........Form is what changes things and why players have good and bad games......They can do it in some games and not others, it can play with a fans head.

What has happened to Albert.....Form....Not Steve Bruce, but he has to take the repercussions of it.

Consistency is probably the most single thing a player can have that makes him great as opposed to good or good as opposed to average.....Paul McGrath was great because you could hang your hat on EVERY performance. they are great players......He is the best I ever seen in a Villa shirt for that.

Your third paragraph is interesting.....I have never suggested he has No control, but the things you point out are player issues for me.....Steve Bruce, credit, do you follow VT.....there is handful of posters who credit Steve Bruce on VT as opposed to most of the ground at Villa Park.

Managers have responsibilities and so do players..........................Lets not get them mixed up.

Yeah, lets get behind all of them tomorrow, for once.

Edited May 25, 2018 by TRO

[TheStagMan]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

Form........Form is what changes things and why players have good and bad games......They can do it in some games and not others, it can play with a fans head.

Consistency is probably the most single thing a player can have that makes him great as opposed to good or good as opposed to average.....Paul McGrath was great because you could hang your hat on EVERY performance. they are great players......He is the best I ever seen in a Villa shirt for that.

Your third paragraph is interesting.....I have never suggested he has No control, but the things you point out are player issues for me.....Steve Bruce, credit do you follow VT.....there is handful of posters who credit Steve Bruce on VT as opposed to most of the ground at Villa Park.

Managers have responsibilities and so do players..........................Lets not get them mixed up.

Yeah, lets get behind all of them tomorrow, for once.

That frankly is a ridiculous and insulting statement. As a Villa fan I AM ALWAYS BEHIND THE TEAM and will ALWAYS support ASTON VILLA and always want my team to win. That however does not mean that I cannot criticise things where I think improvement can be made (as well as praising where things have been done well).

 You can be a fan, supportive and still look for improvement you know, it is not one thing or the other. 

 

And as for your Form comment - really? So basically you are saying that our players are good enough if they are on form. You could say that about any team. How come other teams (with worse individual players) can keep consistent form? I wonder how that might be achieved? Hmmmmmm if only there were someone at the club who could be responsible for that. 

My third paragraph was spot on. You might want to go and re read a lot of your old posts, it is always the players fault, never the manager, at least since you stopped flip flopping at the start of the year.

[TRO]

20 minutes ago, TheStagMan said:

That frankly is a ridiculous and insulting statement. As a Villa fan I AM ALWAYS BEHIND THE TEAM and will ALWAYS support ASTON VILLA and always want my team to win. That however does not mean that I cannot criticise things where I think improvement can be made (as well as praising where things have been done well).

 You can be a fan, supportive and still look for improvement you know, it is not one thing or the other. 

 

And as for your Form comment - really? So basically you are saying that our players are good enough if they are on form. You could say that about any team. How come other teams (with worse individual players) can keep consistent form? I wonder how that might be achieved? Hmmmmmm if only there were someone at the club who could be responsible for that. 

My third paragraph was spot on. You might want to go and re read a lot of your old posts, it is always the players fault, never the manager, at least since you stopped flip flopping at the start of the year.

• It wasn't meant to be insulting that's your interpretation of what is being said and you might be behind the team but you are rarely behind the manager.....Improvement is welcome in anyones language, but lets not play games here....you  rarely have a good word for the manager despite the results, its tedious at best.
• Of course you can look for improvement, but there is a way of saying it without being begrudging to a guy who has got us in the play offs......in simple terms some of the stuff is disrespectful.
• Other teams cannot keep consistent form unless you are referring to the very best players in the country......If you don't understand FORM and its implications, don't argue the point.....your last bit of someone being responsible for form has just laughed me to sleep.
• your final line....self praise is no recommendation and no I have no exclusive line of blame contrary to your comment. I blame the manager if its him and the players if its them( imo), but I do not have a pre conceived view as to who its is before I have watched a game.....after the game, I view the circumstances and every fan does the same.
• Not sure what flip flopping means in the context you refer to, so can't answer that......But I do not go back and read my own posts, what I do, do ,is examine my beliefs and hopefully stay consistent with my thoughts.

Edited May 25, 2018 by TRO

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

I'm baffled that people are still arguing about all this bollox given the circumstances.

There's kind of a big game tomorrow ya know?