Eastie Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said: The first goal was some truly fantastic football. Our improved performances all hinge on the signing of Agnew, the signing of the season in many ways and it was Bruce who pushed for it. Agnew has clearly helped but I don’t agree it is all down to him - there are various factors of which Agnew is one . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 One things for sure, all the dinosaurs are being found out in the Premier League now. Pulis, Hughes. Moyes to name a few. This is why I think going up with Bruce is not an option. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 7 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: One things for sure, all the dinosaurs are being found out in the Premier League now. Pulis, Hughes. Moyes to name a few. This is why I think going up with Bruce is not an option. Well, that is a selective argument, but I think the "Dinosaur" is a selective term that is used in an inappropriate way to describe managers styles and their approach to developing a football club. in an attempt at some accuracy Tony Pulis is managing in the Championship David Moyes is slowly resurrecting the fortunes of West Ham after Slaven Bilic Mark Hughes is no longer in a job. Outside of about 4 continental managers with bags of money.......I don't see anyone else pulling up trees. Going up with Steve Bruce is not even an option.....there is a huge task of winning enough games in this league......you make it sound like an academic achievement. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, TRO said: David Moyes is slowly resurrecting the fortunes of West Ham after Slaven Bilic very slowly, almost not all even Edited February 4, 2018 by VillanousOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyjavfc Posted February 4, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted February 4, 2018 If we go up this season Bruce WILL be manager next season in the premier league...people need to come to terms with this. To think the board won’t show loyalty after what will have been a complete turn around of the team is very very unlikely. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 (edited) 27 minutes ago, mikeyjavfc said: If we go up this season Bruce WILL be manager next season in the premier league...people need to come to terms with this. To think the board won’t show loyalty after what will have been a complete turn around of the team is very very unlikely. And a big mistake if they dont imho. For the first time in as long as I can remember we will be reset and a blank canvas come June. IF we make it back up (It's not an option not to really) then I feel we need to hand the reigns over to someone that will tear up tree's building a new team. I feel with keeping Bruce he will spend a load of money building a new squad and the worry comes that say after 6-9 months and a scenario that he is not getting the desired results and we say part ways with him. We could then be back to square one having a squad of players the next manager won't want or not cut out for this league, we won't be able to offload half of them and the same mistakes happen again tearing up and start again. We should take the next opportunity with both hands and aim to crack the top 6 from the first season back there. I would rather do that than keep a manager out of sentimental thank you's and face a potential relegation battle. I feel that setting our standards of trying to aim avoiding relegation after our first season is poor, especially when we have such a wealthy and ambitious chairman who is now running the show. Edited February 4, 2018 by AvfcRigo82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) if we go up on the basis of turnaround in form and style of play he deserves to stay on and consolidate us. I think he is aware upon promotion that he might be on borrowed time if Tony vision for the club is true and wants us challenging higher in the coming years Edited February 5, 2018 by Zatman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, AvfcRigo82 said: And a big mistake if they dont imho. For the first time in as long as I can remember we will be reset and a blank canvas come June. IF we make it back up (It's not an option not to really) then I feel we need to hand the reigns over to someone that will tear up tree's building a new team. I feel with keeping Bruce he will spend a load of money building a new squad and the worry comes that say after 6-9 months and a scenario that he is not getting the desired results and we say part ways with him. We could then be back to square one having a squad of players the next manager won't want or not cut out for this league, we won't be able to offload half of them and the same mistakes happen again tearing up and start again. We should take the next opportunity with both hands and aim to crack the top 6 from the first season back there. I would rather do that than keep a manager out of sentimental thank you's and face a potential relegation battle. I feel that setting our standards of trying to aim avoiding relegation after our first season is poor, especially when we have such a wealthy and ambitious chairman who is now running the show. Playing devils advocate, who's to say Bruce isn't the man to push us on? He's never had the resources before. I don't think we'd sack a manager who got us promoted. In fact i'm positive we won't! I don't think we are that type of club and Xia isn't that type of owner. Edited February 5, 2018 by Xela 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 30 minutes ago, Xela said: Playing devils advocate, who's to say Bruce isn't the man to push us on? He's never had the resources before. He did at Sunderland and wasted it on Cattermole, Gyan, Larsson, Wickham, O'Shea, Brown to name a few on big fees or wages 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Zatman said: He did at Sunderland and wasted it on Cattermole, Gyan, Larsson, Wickham, O'Shea, Brown to name a few on big fees or wages Cattermole and Larsson - they've had years at Sunderland and I don't think you can call them a waste of money? Wickham was a highly rated kid and they more or less got their money back on him. Gyan was decent for Sunderland when he was there - although ultimately he was a mercenary. As for Brown and O'Shea... well, yeah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, Xela said: Cattermole and Larsson - they've had years at Sunderland and I don't think you can call them a waste of money? Wickham was a highly rated kid and they more or less got their money back on him. Gyan was decent for Sunderland when he was there - although ultimately he was a mercenary. As for Brown and O'Shea... well, yeah! Cattermole and Larsson were crap Premier League players that were given juicy contracts. Gyan was pretty poor for a club record player and dont think he could play with Bent. Bent was only big money signing he made that was good. Bentdner was there I doubt he was cheap and Lorik Cana was another flop under him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said: And a big mistake if they dont imho. For the first time in as long as I can remember we will be reset and a blank canvas come June. IF we make it back up (It's not an option not to really) then I feel we need to hand the reigns over to someone that will tear up tree's building a new team. Maybe appoint someone like RDM, give him a shit load of money to buy almost an entire new squad, and sit back and wait for the results to roll in? Having got his fingers burnt once with that approach, I would hope our owner is a bit more cautious next time round. Our current squad does in any case contain quite a few players who would make a go of it in the premier league so the idea of “tearing up trees” seems rash. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 56 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Our current squad does in any case contain quite a few players who would make a go of it in the premier league so the idea of “tearing up trees” seems rash. True, but most of them may still not be here come next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 57 minutes ago, briny_ear said: Maybe appoint someone like RDM, give him a shit load of money to buy almost an entire new squad, and sit back and wait for the results to roll in? Having got his fingers burnt once with that approach, I would hope our owner is a bit more cautious next time round. Yes. By not hiring RDM for a 2nd time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 4 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said: True, but most of them may still not be here come next season. I think johnstone, chester, terry, grealish, snodgrass and kodjia would all be and are all good enough for the prem. That's a good spine of the team to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I think johnstone, chester, terry, grealish, snodgrass and kodjia would all be and are all good enough for the prem. That's a good spine of the team to start with. True, but we hypothetically lose Johnstone, Terry & Snoddy come June and a few others too. Edited February 5, 2018 by AvfcRigo82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 6 hours ago, Xela said: Playing devils advocate, who's to say Bruce isn't the man to push us on? He's never had the resources before. I don't think we'd sack a manager who got us promoted. In fact i'm positive we won't! I don't think we are that type of club and Xia isn't that type of owner. I wouldn't say so really Xela, but I also don't think Bruce is the man - not when there could be half a dozen or so decent managers out there that have done better. We prob will stick with Bruce, I just feel we won't get very far on that basis if we go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post dont_do_it_doug. Posted February 5, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted February 5, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said: I wouldn't say so really Xela, but I also don't think Bruce is the man - not when there could be half a dozen or so decent managers out there that have done better. We prob will stick with Bruce, I just feel we won't get very far on that basis if we go up. Where do you expect us to get to in season one? 17th would be an achievement. To give ourselves the best possible chance of reaching those heady heights continuity will be vital. We should keep Bruce because he's an ok manager, as in we could do a lot worse, and he will know the squad, club, board, fans, pressure and everything that goes with it. I think we might have taken Wyness a bit too literally when he said "one team to get us up, one to keep us up..." etc. I'd be looking to make 5-6 signings max, that being on top of Snodgrass and Johnstone. Edited February 5, 2018 by dont_do_it_doug. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 9 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said: We should take the next opportunity with both hands and aim to crack the top 6 from the first season back there. I would rather do that than keep a manager out of sentimental thank you's and face a potential relegation battle. I feel that setting our standards of trying to aim avoiding relegation after our first season is poor, especially when we have such a wealthy and ambitious chairman who is now running the show. Impossible, you can't go from finishing 2nd in the Championship to breaking the PL top 6 in a season. It's going to take at least 5 years to be in a position to even challenge the top 6, this isn't FIFA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted February 5, 2018 Moderator Share Posted February 5, 2018 9 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said: We should take the next opportunity with both hands and aim to crack the top 6 from the first season back there. I'm normally a pretty optimistic guy, but crikey - I worry you're going to be feeling sad for most of next season if you think we're going to be competing with Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool. As for the replacing Bruce part, your rationale places a lot of emphasis on the idea that a new manager will sign all the right players, get them to gel immediately, and leave a legacy that anyone can inherit. Seems a bit of a leap to me. The premise that Bruce is guaranteed to fail, but anyone else is guaranteed to bring untold glories seems a bit far-fetched. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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