Steve Bruce

[mjmooney]

If we were promoted and immediately sacked our manager, we would be a laughing stock. It is never going to happen. I can't believe people are even talking about it. 

Get real. 

[TRO]

27 minutes ago, Shropshire Lad said:

I was of the opinion that if Villa were to be promoted there was a legitimate discussion to be had as to whether Bruce should be our manager in our first season back the top flight.

I’m now very much of the opinion he has to be the manager. 

One of the biggest strengths we’re seeing at the moment is a true team spirit amongst the players. Bruce must take a lot of the credit for this and I worry what would happen to this morale if the man who had been a vital cog in creating it was suddenly removed.

I look at the managers in the premier league this season and I think there’s an argument to say that Bruce is roughly on a par with around half of them. We don’t need him to be the man to break the top six, we need him to be the man to gets us there and keep us there. I think he has the ability and experience to do so.

If we’re in the premier league next season, we will obviously need investment. By and large Bruce (and whoever else in part of the transfer committee) seems to made fairly astute signings. They’ve not been without their issues, I’ve been guilty of writing them off only for them to go on good runs of form.

On the whole, his transfer record with us has been commendable, so I’m not as concerned with the notion that we’re going to let Bruce have £100m to go shopping at Hull City and Sunderland or whatever the fear might be. 

As a general aside, I shall just add that I’m reluctant in discussing Bruce and the premier league as firstly we’re not there, still a long way to go. And secondly, every time I say something positive or negative about Bruce, the subsequent results contradict me and make me look like a bellend.

I endorse your sentiments SL

I think one of SB's most value attributes is to galvanise staff in to a harmonious outfit all singing off the same hymn sheet.....personally I think he is a likable character.( not all would agree)

Some of the comments made against him, may have validity, some may not....but its his overall skill base /experience I think is valuable to us.....I would see him move up stairs in his latter life, I think his knowledge of all things football/the game is colossal.

He is revered by so many in football too and in an industry where the odd favour comes in handy, it puts you in the pound seats.....every leg up, is welcome.

Edited February 5, 2018 by TRO

[TRO]

7 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

If we were promoted and immediately sacked our manager, we would be a laughing stock. It is never going to happen. I can't believe people are even talking about it. 

Get real. 

Too ridiculous for words.

Edited February 5, 2018 by TRO

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

15 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

If we were promoted and immediately sacked our manager, we would be a laughing stock. It is never going to happen. I can't believe people are even talking about it. 

Get real. 

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, sorry but this is not the case. ( I would not go anywhere near saying we would be a laughing stock, it could be ambition)

Other clubs have done it, it has worked out for some, and not for others.

The argument about the type of manager to take you forward long term is a very good argument.

It is like Being in a cross country rally, and opting to keep the Land Rover to go across the river instead of the hovercraft because the Land Rover brought you across the desert.

If Zidane got sacked and their was a chance he was willing join Villa for instance, would you keep Bruce to avoid being "a laughing stock"?

Edited February 5, 2018 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Whilst I agree with the sentiment, sorry but this is not the case. ( I would not go anywhere near saying we would be a laughing stock, it could be ambition)

Other clubs have done it, it has worked out for some, and not for others.

The argument about the type of manager to take you forward long term is a very good argument.

It is like Being in a cross country rally, and opting to keep the Land Rover to go across the river instead of the hovercraft because the Land Rover brought you across the desert.

If Zidane got sacked and their was a chance he was willing join Villa for instance, would you keep Bruce to avoid being "a laughing stock"?

Not to be too specific in your example, because i know thats what it is.....But ZZ or the like ,might not be any good for us, even if he came.

1. He is used to managing a much higher calibre of player, the likes of our players would not be able to reach his expectations.

2. We could not be able to afford the transfer fee's or wages of the players he would require to work with to wield his magic.

In my view we have to build in increments, like we did with RS & GT, gradually changing and strengthening in each window......fast track won't work.

 

[AvfcRigo82]

21 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

If we were promoted and immediately sacked our manager, we would be a laughing stock. It is never going to happen. I can't believe people are even talking about it. 

Get real. 

I disagree with you MJ.

If it meant getting a manager who betters what we already have then we would be a laughing stock to stick imo.

In todays age of football it would not be that bigger shock to sack the current manager as say what it would have been 5-10 years ago after repeating the same acheivement - then I would agree with you hands down.

I get the notion of your post but I wouldn't say we would be a laughing stock.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

Not to be too specific in your example, because i know thats what it is.....But ZZ or the like ,might not be any good for us, even if he came.

1. He is used to managing a much higher calibre of player, the likes of our players would not be able to reach his expectations.

2. We could not be able to afford the transfer fee's or wages of the players he would require to work with to wield his magic.

In my view we have to build in increments, like we did with RS & GT, gradually changing and strengthening in each window......fast track won't work.

 

Don't get me wrong, not saying it SHOULD or would happen. Just saying I wouldn't rule it out as ludicrous, depending on the circumstances.

As I believe you or another poster said, we currently have a good thing going, especially re Team Spirit etc. so an uprooting would not be ideal.

However, we need to be very careful with how we proceed though.

This might be our only shot.

[AvfcRigo82]

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

However, we need to be very careful with how we proceed though.

This might be our only shot.

This.

I don't fancy going straight back down again after the hard work it has taken us to get back up in the first place.

I would rather Bruce be remembered highly for bringing us back, but there is a very almighty risk if all that being undone if we go up a level.

[Dave J]

24 minutes ago, TRO said:

I endorse your sentiments SL

I think one of SB's most value attributes is to galvanise staff in to a harmonious outfit all singing off the same hymn sheet.....personally I think he is a likable character.( not all would agree)

Some of the comments made against him, may have validity, some may not....but its his overall skill base /experience I think is valuable to us.....I would see him move up stairs in his latter life, I think his knowledge of all things football/the game is colossal.

He is revered by so many in football too and in an industry where the odd favour comes in handy, it puts you in the pound seats.....every leg up, is welcome.

TRO - your faith in Bruce is very laudable and I know you have trust in him - but to say his knowledge of football is colossal tests me the max.

crikey we all know the stories that eminated from the stadium of light regarding his lack of coaching prowess and tactics and whilst no one takes anything away from our fine run of late - lest not forget we have also been dire for long parts of his tenure how does a man with his knowledge and ability explain this? - I do agree he is a likeable man - but don't get carried away just yet - I see him as no more than average tbh with you, look at it another way he's been around the block several times now and how many top jobs as he on his CV  ( current incumbency being the obvious exception). Also many people are placing the recent successes down to the influence of Agnew.

i would urge cautious optimism at the very most going forward.

 

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

I disagree with you MJ.

If it meant getting a manager who betters what we already have then we would be a laughing stock to stick imo.

In todays age of football it would not be that bigger shock to sack the current manager as say what it would have been 5-10 years ago after repeating the same acheivement - then I would agree with you hands down.

I get the notion of your post but I wouldn't say we would be a laughing stock.

And that is the 64 million dollar question.

Tell me one fan, out of the whole fan base, that would not agree to replacing Steve Bruce with a better version.....If a guarantee was on the table, there is NO guarantee's in this game.

There is no sentiment in football,so he would understand that...... but there is a thing called taking a calculated gamble, but the question is, do you want to do that ( after all the years of **** we have had to put up with)....and how difficult is is to rectify it when it goes pear shaped.

If this manager, who we ALL thought was going to be better than Steve Bruce.....failed to do that and it is very possible.......I think in the circumstances, we would be a prime candidate for a laughing stock.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

1 minute ago, Dave J said:

TRO - your faith in Bruce is very laudable and I know you have trust in him - but to say his knowledge of football is colossal tests me the max.

crikey we all know the stories that eminated from the stadium of light regarding his lack of coaching prowess and tactics and whilst no one takes anything away from our fine run of late - lest not forget we have also been dire for long parts of his tenure how does a man with his knowledge and ability explain this? - I do agree he is a likeable man - but don't get carried away just yet - I see him as no more than average tbh with you, look at it another way he's been around the block several times now and how many top jobs as he on his CV  ( current incumbency being the obvious exception). Also many people are placing the recent successes down to the influence of Agnew.

i would urge cautious optimism at the very most going forward.

 

I have no horse in your debate here but regarding this point; I know of one article that has been re-posted every time we have gone on a shitty run. I don't know of 'stories'?

[TRO]

36 minutes ago, Dave J said:

TRO - your faith in Bruce is very laudable and I know you have trust in him - but to say his knowledge of football is colossal tests me the max.

crikey we all know the stories that eminated from the stadium of light regarding his lack of coaching prowess and tactics and whilst no one takes anything away from our fine run of late - lest not forget we have also been dire for long parts of his tenure how does a man with his knowledge and ability explain this? - I do agree he is a likeable man - but don't get carried away just yet - I see him as no more than average tbh with you, look at it another way he's been around the block several times now and how many top jobs as he on his CV  ( current incumbency being the obvious exception). Also many people are placing the recent successes down to the influence of Agnew.

i would urge cautious optimism at the very most going forward.

 

I would Agree with that Dave.

Look, we both see Steve Bruce in very different Lights, thats not going to change, I don't think.....although Results do have a big influence.

To keep rolling out the Sunderland job, is 1) selective and 2) not many managers have had a success there in recent times....its a very,very difficult place to get it to work, IMO its a long Job.

Dave....If i was going to do a round up of Brian Clough and brought up the 44 days at Leeds.....It would be forgiven for someone to claim my article was biased and selective, in light of his overall career.....I guess one could say scraping the barrel.

Steve Bruce has been in football management c 20 years or so at mainly championship level, you know what he's done, so I won't repeat it....suffice to say by now,you know,its not easy.

Steve has never had transfer budgets awash with money, he hasn't been at clubs like that and he has come in now and had to deal with FFP.....quite frankly, I think he has done well, We may have a few ageing players, but that is the trade off he has to contend with, hence he has to watch the injuries.

Bear in mind, these are just opinions, no one has a monopoly on the truth.

I accept that you have a much different opinion of him than me.

Edited February 5, 2018 by TRO

[NurembergVillan]

38 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Other clubs have done it, it has worked out for some, and not for others.

In Premier League terms, I can only think of Watford with Jokanovic.  His contract had expired, though, so there may have been other factors at play.

Also, Watford haven't set their stall out as being the beacon of stability - including Jokanovic they've had 5 permanent managers in two and a half years.

41 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

It is like Being in a cross country rally, and opting to keep the Land Rover to go across the river instead of the hovercraft because the Land Rover brought you across the desert.

It's not.

I've had three attempts at providing an alternative analogy, but the one you've offered is so wide of the mark I just can't cross-reference it.

Essentially - managing a group of humans is different than choosing an appropriate vehicle for entirely opposing tasks.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

3 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

In Premier League terms, I can only think of Watford with Jokanovic.  His contract had expired, though, so there may have been other factors at play.

Also, Watford haven't set their stall out as being the beacon of stability - including Jokanovic they've had 5 permanent managers in two and a half years.

It's not.

I've had three attempts at providing an alternative analogy, but the one you've offered is so wide of the mark I just can't cross-reference it.

Essentially - managing a group of humans is different than choosing an appropriate vehicle for entirely opposing tasks.

How so?

Replace "Desert" with Championship and "River" with Premier League.

"Land Rover" with Steve Bruce and "Hover Craft" with Manager who is possibly better overall in every department and able to handle the "Terrain" better and long term. 

Edited February 5, 2018 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[NurembergVillan]

1 minute ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

How so?

Replace "Desert" with Championship and "River" with Premier League.

"Land Rover" with Steve Bruce and "Hover Craft" with Manager who is possibly better overall in every department and able to handle the "Terrain" better and long term. 

Most people would say a football manager is the best tool to manage a football team.

Not many people would say a car is the best tool to navigate a river.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

4 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said:

Most people would say a football manager is the best tool to manage a football team.

Not many people would say a car is the best tool to navigate a river.

Now you are blatantly just dossing about with minor details when you know very well what the point is.

Alright, instead of a Land Rover, what about a Quad Bike All Terrain vehicle with water float capable wheels which performs ok in the desert but slower in the water? 

Come on now.

[TRO]

41 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Don't get me wrong, not saying it SHOULD or would happen. Just saying I wouldn't rule it out as ludicrous, depending on the circumstances.

As I believe you or another poster said, we currently have a good thing going, especially re Team Spirit etc. so an uprooting would not be ideal.

However, we need to be very careful with how we proceed though.

This might be our only shot.

I agree

I am not trying to avoid reaching for the stars, but trying to be realistic.

There is a case to answer, that unless all the stars align, like with Leicester and us in 1980/81.....its unlikely we are ( anytime soon) going to challenge the top 6 in the Prem...( yes we've got to get there first, 16 teams still have a bit to say in that)

What I am saying is.....Is it not best to know who we are, how we have gained a bit of success in the past and stick to what we do best.

The last thing I want to do is lack ambition in my thoughts....but most of the players of the past we can all roll off our tongues as our favourites......cost less than 10 Mill.

Far be it from me to try and lower the bar or **** on someones chips.....but isn't good to know what we do best.

[briny_ear]

9 hours ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Depends on the manager DDID.

Keeping Bruce I agree 17th will be very very good imo. - Anything above 17th will be a remarkable achievement.

Just to touch on pressure, he was feeling it with us in October/December. I just worry will he cope with the fans and the pressure in the PL the minute results dip.  I don't think he will.

I think it’s just a small section of the fans he has a beef with. The ones who are constantly criticising him now matter how well the team is doing and who are constantly calling for his dismissal even after a run of 6 wins on the trot.

Din’t think there are too many of those, though. 

[NurembergVillan]

2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Now you are blatantly just dossing about with minor details when you know very well what the point is.

Alright, instead of a Land Rover, what about a Quad Bike All Terrain vehicle with water float capable wheels which performs ok in the desert but slower in the water? 

Come on now.

I'll take that, yeah

The one thing I'll say about Bruce is that he's done pretty well with the clubs he's been at in the PL previously.  In fact, in the context of those clubs and the level they should be at, you could say he did really well.

They weren't as famous, they didn't have the history, they (hopefully!) didn't have the budget for fees and salaries, they didn't have the training facilities - and he didn't have coaching set-up around him he has here.

Given the nuanced nature of managing a team - morale being a prime factor - I think change for change's sake would be an outrageous decision.

[Dave J]

43 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I have no horse in your debate here but regarding this point; I know of one article that has been re-posted every time we have gone on a shitty run. I don't know of 'stories'?

It's one and the same Doug