Stevo985 Posted October 16, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, sheepyvillian said: How ironic ,apparently we weren't set up defensively, and yet ,I've never seen a team look so unlikely to score. Because football is more complicated than "set up attacking = Goals". Otherwise every team in the world would just play 10 strikers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted October 16, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 16, 2017 I think the big problem we have with games like Saturday is that if we sit deep and try to hit teams on the break, we've nothing to hit them with. If we look at Wolves with Cavaleiro, Jota, Costa - they're all absolutely rapid, and tricky. This means they can play on the front foot, or break if teams come onto them. They're like a Championship version of Liverpool in that respect. For us, and I'm assuming Round and Wyness don't just sign players and have them delivered to Bodymoor Heath, Bruce just hasn't built a forward line to do that. It's like he's completely missed that part of the modern game. Adomah is pretty quick but lacks real flair. Kodjia has more tricks in his locker but lacks electric pace, and is fairly myopic. Neither of them were signed by Bruce anyway. Snodgrass is a good player but has no change of pace, Davis was showing some nice footwork but also has little pace. If we're trying to box clever, as I was hoping we were in the first hour on Saturday, we then have no counter punch. Without Andre Green, there just isn't that threat. Grealish may be back soon, but he's just a young Robert Snodgrass so if anything makes matters worse. Big miss from the management team that we've pulled together some good components around the field but there's no "out ball" to help move us forward a few stages at once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 16, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: I think the big problem we have with games like Saturday is that if we sit deep and try to hit teams on the break, we've nothing to hit them with. If we look at Wolves with Cavaleiro, Jota, Costa - they're all absolutely rapid, and tricky. This means they can play on the front foot, or break if teams come onto them. They're like a Championship version of Liverpool in that respect. For us, and I'm assuming Round and Wyness don't just sign players and have them delivered to Bodymoor Heath, Bruce just hasn't built a forward line to do that. It's like he's completely missed that part of the modern game. Adomah is pretty quick but lacks real flair. Kodjia has more tricks in his locker but lacks electric pace, and is fairly myopic. Neither of them were signed by Bruce anyway. Snodgrass is a good player but has no change of pace, Davis was showing some nice footwork but also has little pace. If we're trying to box clever, as I was hoping we were in the first hour on Saturday, we then have no counter punch. Without Andre Green, there just isn't that threat. Grealish may be back soon, but he's just a young Robert Snodgrass so if anything makes matters worse. Big miss from the management team that we've pulled together some good components around the field but there's no "out ball" to help move us forward a few stages at once. You could say the Villa engine lacks....er.... an engine. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted October 16, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: You could say the Villa engine lacks....er.... an engine. It certainly isn't turbo-charged that's for sure. At least now we've not got McCormack around, who seems to run on 4 star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted October 16, 2017 Moderator Share Posted October 16, 2017 3 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: It certainly isn't turbo-charged that's for sure. At least now we've not got McCormack around, who seems to run on 4 star. More castlemaine XXXX now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 10 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Because football is more complicated than "set up attacking = Goals". Otherwise every team in the world would just play 10 strikers. Most teams go out with the mindset to score goals , if we wasn't set up defensively, then we must of been offensively, which surely means with the objective of trying to outscore your opponents, what's complicated about that ? One adjective comes to mind ,in regards to Saturdays performance, sterile,unable to produce Tom Tit . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 10 minutes ago, NurembergVillan said: It certainly isn't turbo-charged that's for sure. At least now we've not got McCormack around, who seems to run on 4 star. Good point. We seriously lack pace. Bet we have one of the slowest teams in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJim Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 3 hours ago, Stevo985 said: Because football is more complicated than "set up attacking = Goals". Otherwise every team in the world would just play 10 strikers. Yeah, but he didn't say = Goals, he said we didn't look likely to score. In other words, if we were set up as an attacking unit, we sure didn't know how to play like one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 2 hours ago, BigJim said: Yeah, but he didn't say = Goals, he said we didn't look likely to score. In other words, if we were set up as an attacking unit, we sure didn't know how to play like one. Really complicating that ,hey ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 10 hours ago, praisedmambo said: I think I was talking about being outclassed and, paraphrasing myself, making no impact on games against the bigger clubs. Taking the Sheffield Wednesday win, let's look at some quotes from the report. Villa went into the game with the joint fourth worst goalscoring record in the Championship and based on their early play it was not difficult to understand their present predicament...With the emphasis on attack Wednesday were a persistent danger in sharp contrast to Villa operating with just Kodjia as the sole striker...The rampaging Winnall continued to be a thorn in Villa's defence and, along with Jordan Rhodes, they increasingly became a difficult duo to handle for an over-stretched Villa defence...But out of the blue, Villa went ahead in the 35th minute, when Kodjia notched his 14th goal of the season. They got a red card at around half time. The Brighton away game is definitely the only time I can remember under Bruce us putting in an impressive performance (beating extremely average teams as we've done recently has not been impressive). There was a Grealish last minute equaliser in the final game against Brighton, even if the stats suggested it was pretty even (I didn't see it). Beating Derby twice—one and a half performances against Brighton, one after they'd been promoted, this isn't enough. In fact, talking about impressive performances—that's a point, wouldn't it be great if we actually were capable of putting in an impressive performance? We'll be battling for the playoffs at best with the way we play. Maybe last year, after the relegation year that would have been OK, but this year I personally expected so much more. I don't see it—this season, even when we win, I've been bored to tears. So you were bored to tears 4-0 against burton? I agree bruces style isnt the best to watch but for me results matter more than entertainment at the moment. If we start falling away then yes you have a point but if we can start beating the teams around us then we have a chance. We beat wednesday pretty comfortably that game i was there. Wednesday were nothing to shout out aboute. As for brighton they were very lucky to get a point against us at their place. We can compete with the best kn this league...when we are at the races. Saturday we were not. Would have been interesting to see how we would have done had we applied ourselves properly. Wolves have been very fortunate with injuries so far. I will lile to see how they do when the likes of jota are put for extended periods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 13 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Bruce's reign here has been a disaster. Its been a reign of terror Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 17, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, sheepyvillian said: Most teams go out with the mindset to score goals , if we wasn't set up defensively, then we must of been offensively, which surely means with the objective of trying to outscore your opponents, what's complicated about that ? One adjective comes to mind ,in regards to Saturdays performance, sterile,unable to produce Tom Tit . 6 hours ago, BigJim said: Yeah, but he didn't say = Goals, he said we didn't look likely to score. In other words, if we were set up as an attacking unit, we sure didn't know how to play like one. Put it this way. If Villa were playing Man City, and we set up attacking "to score goals", we'd probably lose 10-0 and hardly touch the ball. Wolves, of course, aren't Man City. But what they are is a very good attacking team (at this level). You don't play a team like that by playing a lightweight midfield and isolating two strikers because you can't get the ball to them. Our inability to even look like scoring (and I agree, we never looked like scoring) wasn't because we were set up defensively. It was because we couldn't hold onto the ball against a team that were way better at passing than us, and we couldn't win it back. A huge part of that was because we had two men up front "attacking", but essentially doing nothing because we were too light in midfield. If football was as simple as "play more attacking = score more goals" than every team would just play 10 strikers and be done with it. Note that I'm not for one second defending Saturday's performance. it was dreadful. What i'm saying was I don't think we were set up defensively. Which was absolutely part of the problem. If we HAD set up defensively, then I think we'd have performed better, despite the abuse Bruce would have received because of it. Edited October 17, 2017 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 On 13/10/2017 at 17:31, Dave J said: Well RDM was a champions league winner - you feel that Bruce is a top manager- Lambert was regarded as one of the bright young hopes ( still a good manager in there for me) who left a cracking Norwich side to come here- and I 've not really thought about my answer Dave, I do not feel Bruce is a top Manager. Just because I don't think he's the anti-christ doesn't mean I like him, there is space in-between, it doesn't have to be one end of the spectrum or the other. If you read my posts since we hired him you'd see this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Surprise surprise, after 7 odd games unbeaten and 4 wins on the bounce we inevitably lost a game and the knives are out. I wonder, did people actually think we would go unbeaten for the rest of the season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 after 7 games of scraping it, reality finally reared its ugly head. Did you honestly believe the shyte football would get results for the whole season? works both ways 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said: Surprise surprise, after 7 odd games unbeaten and 4 wins on the bounce we inevitably lost a game and the knives are out. I wonder, did people actually think we would go unbeaten for the rest of the season? While we are off the pace for promotion every point lost should be open to criticism. We are a football club, not a charity for Steve Bruce. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said: Surprise surprise, after 7 odd games unbeaten and 4 wins on the bounce we inevitably lost a game and the knives are out. I wonder, did people actually think we would go unbeaten for the rest of the season? Tbh for me it was more the manner of the defeat. The gulf in class, style, tactics etc was hard to take. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 6 minutes ago, omariqy said: Tbh for me it was more the manner of the defeat. The gulf in class, style, tactics etc was hard to take. Absolutely this, allied to the realisation that Aston Villa managed by Bruce will never turn out that kind of performance that Wolves did because he has been here 12 months now, signed 14 players so would have at least had a glint ot two of it by now.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 17, 2017 Author Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Grasshopper said: after 7 games of scraping it, reality finally reared its ugly head. Did you honestly believe the shyte football would get results for the whole season? works both ways Since when are 3-0 and 4-0s scraping wins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, mykeyb said: Absolutely this, allied to the realisation that Aston Villa managed by Bruce will never turn out that kind of performance that Wolves did because he has been here 12 months now, signed 14 players so would have at least had a glint ot two of it by now.. Yeah but he hasn't had the time Nuno has had. He just needs time. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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