Steve Bruce

[AntrimBlack]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

I would have gone with 4-2-3-1....but no matter what system you play, the players have to be at it, I don't think they was.....for whatever reason.

I think they were sent out with a defensive mindset.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, AntrimBlack said:

I think they were sent out with a defensive mindset.

you may well be right, judging by the first half I would say you are.

I remember us playing at Liverpool when they were Great and with 15 minutes to go, we were 0-0 but we just sat Deep trying to run the clock down, that just invited them in.....with Andy Gray screaming for the ball up front...He never got it.

we ended up 3-0 defeat.

It is extremely difficult to defend for 90 minutes + only the very special sides like the Milan's and Athletico can do it justice.

I don't know what he said to them....but it didn't work whatever it was.

[sheepyvillian]

Wolves aren't exactly great ,certainly not in comparison to the great Liverpool side of the seventies . This manager is negativity personified. 

We never ever looked like scoring on Saturday , it was painful to watch ,and there can be no excuses for that drivel .

[sheepyvillian]

When he goes ,and trust me , he will go . Lets hope the players haven't fully forgotten how to pass and move .

[AntrimBlack]

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

I think I’m right in saying that in the year Bruce has been in charge of the club we haven’t spent 1 day in the top 6. 

Not all his fault, granted given where we were when he arrived but fair to say I don’t think anyone would have predicted the above let alone thought it would be acceptable.

Whatever the merits or otherwise of his appointment, whatever it’s logic and irrespective of how widely welcomed he was his appointment to date hasn’t worked.

Some we argue we are on track, we are improving and that the results over the last 10 games support that. Others will say the improvement is marginal, the football not good enough to mount a challenge and too many excuses are made.

Personally I fall into the later camp. I don’t think his performance over the last 12 months has been good enough, I don’t think the performances are good enough to take us up and I think with every passing month he looks more and more yesterdays man like some of the players he signed.

I accept the logic of those saying we don’t need another change, I don’t think anyone wants one, and I accept the charge that we would be mocked for making one.

But in the support of those views let’s not pretend Bruce has done or is doing a good job, let’s not kid ourselves real tangible progress is being made even if we have enjoyed a good run of results prior to Wolves.

Automatic promotion is gone in my opinion, we aren’t good enough and aren’t attacking enough to win the sort of number of games required to achieve it.

So now it’s about trying to get into the dreaded play offs. Was that really people’s hope or expectation in the summer?

We have absolutely no devine right to achieve it but I think we had reason to expect a challenge for automatic promotion.

Yes, I know how many games have been played, how many remain and what the current points difference is before people reply with reference to them. I make this post in full awareness of them. 

As I posted a few pages back, look at the wins the theee promoted sides achieved last season. Can you really see us matching that sort of win ratio?

So for the Dr the questions now are, is Bruce the best bet for reaching the play offs? Can I afford to make a change of manager and support him in the market to improve things in line with FFP?

My concern is that the answer to both those questions is no. But that the answer to the second question impacts what is done about the negative answer to the first.

I’m just not sure we can afford to get rid of Bruce and other staff, replace them and give them new players to change things and comply with FFP.

I think we’ve gambled twice already and now we are left holding onto the seat and hoping the ride ends how we wish.

So as much as I think Bruce is doing a poor job, as much as I’d like to see a change, as much as I think his football philosophy is a decade old I fear we are stuck with him.

So we best hope we keep beating the dross in this league and hope we scrape enough points from the rest to get into that top 6 and get promoted.

One thing is for sure, if we do I will still think a change of manager is needed if we are really going to take the club forward.

 

That's a great post, TV, and I cannot disagree with any of it.

We can only hang in there and hope that Bruce can get us promoted. I still have hopes that he can, but, quite honestly, my heart says it will not happen.

I really fear for our future.

[Genie]

When the game against Wolves kicked off we were 6th on the “live table” with the point the 0-0 would have awarded 

 

 

Edited October 16, 2017 by Genie

[TrentVilla]

5 minutes ago, Genie said:

When the game against Wolves kicked off we were 6th on the “live table” with the point the 0-0 would have awarded 

 

 

45 mind isn’t a day (although it frequently feels like it watching our 2nd half displays) which is why I specifically said ‘a day’. But nice try

[TrentVilla]

@Genie

The odd thing is, I now find myself in agreement with you re change of manager, just for very very different reasons.

I fear we can’t afford to make an effective change as mentioned earlier.

[mykeyb]

2 hours ago, TRO said:

I fully understand your sentiments.....some I agree with FWIW and some I don't.

I don't think he has done  a poor job, but I don't think he has done a great job either, sorry for sitting on the fence......I watch some of the individual play and i squirm, such is their inability to retain/win or run with the ball. I also think their ability to win aerial ball is amateur.

but, he has stopped a rot that was getting totally out of hand.....and I fully accept we can't be grateful for that forever.

The thing for me is......Who is this man to right all the wrongs of Steve Bruce.....We can't all simply enter a whingeing contest with no end product.

Its simply not a question of ridding ourselves of Steve Bruce, that is the dilettante nature of all this.......it's who is the man to put it all right.

Were you aware of Wagner before he took over at Huddersfield, or Nuno at Wolves. Would you have offered either the job?

Wyness and Round are the ones who need to find the next man for the hot seat.

There are managers out there who could, should and would make a better fist of it than Bruce.

Edited October 16, 2017 by mykeyb

[mykeyb]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Look, I am not suggesting you are wrong and it may weel be in the cold light of day they have better individual players than us, but.

If you let them play, they will......We did and we got spanked.

conversely, when we had the ball and wanted to play, they closed us down and denied us space, which negated any intentions we had.

I saw players of ours way off form on the night, why I have no idea, except its not the first time after an International break ,Hmmmm.

I am not diminishing what you say about research, but its action we want not technical theories.

Its a simple game.....look at the turn around Blues got against Cardiff.....The turnaround Burton got against Bristol City

We don't need Stephen Hawking......We need heart and conviction.They have the talent they need to use it.

If hypothetically we swapped managers with Wolves tomorrow which team would get promoted? I don't think Bruce would have the first clue how to get performances like Saturdays out if those players I really don't.

[praisedmambo]

6 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

It's not really true though us it is? We beat Sheffield wed derby, drew twice with Brighton last year. We also beat reading last year. I think it's more the away grounds we find it trickier than the quality of opposition. 

We are a upper top championship team we are going to lose games that's the way it is. But it's how we bounce back after the defeats and the volume of defeats that will determine Bruce position in my view. 

I think I was talking about being outclassed and, paraphrasing myself, making no impact on games against the bigger clubs. 

Taking the Sheffield Wednesday win, let's look at some quotes from the report. 

Villa went into the game with the joint fourth worst goalscoring record in the Championship and based on their early play it was not difficult to understand their present predicament...With the emphasis on attack Wednesday were a persistent danger in sharp contrast to Villa operating with just Kodjia as the sole striker...The rampaging Winnall continued to be a thorn in Villa's defence and, along with Jordan Rhodes, they increasingly became a difficult duo to handle for an over-stretched Villa defence...But out of the blue, Villa went ahead in the 35th minute, when Kodjia notched his 14th goal of the season.

They got a red card at around half time. 

The Brighton away game is definitely the only time I can remember under Bruce us putting in an impressive performance (beating extremely average teams as we've done recently has not been impressive). There was a Grealish last minute equaliser in the final game against Brighton, even if the stats suggested it was pretty even (I didn't see it). Beating Derby twice—one and a half performances against Brighton, one after they'd been promoted, this isn't enough. 

In fact, talking about impressive performances—that's a point, wouldn't it be great if we actually were capable of putting in an impressive performance? We'll be battling for the playoffs at best with the way we play. Maybe last year, after the relegation year that would have been OK, but this year I personally expected so much more. I don't see it—this season, even when we win, I've been bored to tears. 

Edited October 16, 2017 by praisedmambo

[Dave J]

30 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

Were you aware of Wagner before he took over at Huddersfield, or Nuno at Wolves. Would you have offered either the job?

Wyness and Round are the ones who need to find the next man for the hot seat.

There are managers out there who could, should and would make a better fist of it than Bruce.

Totally agree - however I'm not sure about these two choosing the next incumbent to the post- based upon their recent track record.

[Vive_La_Villa]

I don't like Bruce and there is not a chance in hell he can build a team for the future. But I do think the risk of sacking him now is probably to high as it's unlikely a manager can come in at this stage and get somebody else's squad promoted. It's Bruce's players and he knows what he has to do. I've said for a while it won't be pretty but promotion is still achievable. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

54 minutes ago, mykeyb said:

If hypothetically we swapped managers with Wolves tomorrow which team would get promoted? I don't think Bruce would have the first clue how to get performances like Saturdays out if those players I really don't.

Any manager could get performances out of Neves and Jota. They are different calibre to anything in this league. It's almost like they cheating having those two players! 

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, AntrimBlack said:

I think they were sent out with a defensive mindset.

I really don't think they were.

If they were I think we would have performed better.

[Vive_La_Villa]

4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I really don't think they were.

If they were I think we would have performed better.

Nor would they be getting caught on the break time after time in the first half. Defensive mindset would have meant they sat deep.

[Stevo985]

1 minute ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Nor would they be getting caught on the break time after time in the first half. Defensive mindset would have meant they sat deep.

Exactly. For all the teeth gnashing and "WE ARE ASTON VILLA!!!!!111!!!1" that would have resulted from it on here, away against the league leaders who are playing very good attacking football is the one game where it would make total sense to set up defensively.

I genuinely wish we had. It would have been the smart move.

[Vive_La_Villa]

2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Exactly. For all the teeth gnashing and "WE ARE ASTON VILLA!!!!!111!!!1" that would have resulted from it on here, away against the league leaders who are playing very good attacking football is the one game where it would make total sense to set up defensively.

I genuinely wish we had. It would have been the smart move.

Yep. That's why I'm baffled that Bruce of all people didn't get bodies behind the ball and play on the break. It's almost if he went for it based on all the recent criticism over being too negative.  He must be really feeling the pressure. 

[sheepyvillian]

How ironic ,apparently we weren't set up defensively, and yet ,I've never seen a team look so unlikely to score . I'll reiterate, this manager is not up to the task that is required to take this club to the heights it seeks . 

 

[sheepyvillian]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Any manager could get performances out of Neves and Jota. They are different calibre to anything in this league. It's almost like they cheating having those two players! 

Especially if given the space ,that we gave them .