Vive_La_Villa Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 32 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: Bruce said that he had watched some videos. I would have thought that one of the better teams in the division would have warranted a live appraisal. Further proof of how old fashioned he is. Even DVDs would have been more acceptable. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 The way I see it at this moment in time is: Risk of keeping Bruce is we narrowly miss out on playoffs. Risk of sacking Bruce is a complete unknown from promotion to relegation! Its a bit of a shit situation the club find themselves in. Easy to say in hindsight but those that said sack him at the end of last season were right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, mykeyb said: Were you aware of Wagner before he took over at Huddersfield, or Nuno at Wolves. Would you have offered either the job? Wyness and Round are the ones who need to find the next man for the hot seat. There are managers out there who could, should and would make a better fist of it than Bruce. No, is the answer......but equally, Hindsight is an exact science. but I thought Remi Garde was going to be that manager that you are alluding to. and I guess there is one out there.....but, yes they should be aware. Like David Dein was aware of Wenger in Japan.....but I'm doing it now. Edited October 17, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 20 hours ago, mykeyb said: If hypothetically we swapped managers with Wolves tomorrow which team would get promoted? I don't think Bruce would have the first clue how to get performances like Saturdays out if those players I really don't. It would be interesting....and I am not saying you are wrong, just not convinced that you are right. The most interesting quote for me from the Wolves game was....."we don't need to emulate the Wolves model.....we just need a better Aston Villa." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 28 minutes ago, tomav84 said: Think it's more a case of looking at the likes of wolves and cardiff and realising we're more than a managerial change away from the premier league. i have accepted we're in this league for at least a couple of seasons yet, and if by some miracle we go up this season we'll be coming straight back down. i think the villa ship is quite steady at the moment. no, we're not as higher as we would like but still we're a point off playoffs and a 4 game winning run was ended by a team that have been building for promotion for a little while now and are ready for the next step. we are not, and this (in my opinion) is not bruce's fault. sorry to use your words against you, but too many folks see the risk in keeping bruce and not see the risk in replacing him Your outlook is so depressing and fatalistic. If we are doomed to the lower leagues for years yet, I despair. You actually make me even more inclined to take a risk. You really do surprise me. You see the downside risk of keeping him and expect it to happen. And are still OK with him staying! Baffling to me. please say more. I need some of what you are drinking to drown my sorrows, now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) On 10/17/2017 at 16:18, tomav84 said: Think it's more a case of looking at the likes of wolves and cardiff and realising we're more than a managerial change away from the premier league. i have accepted we're in this league for at least a couple of seasons yet, and if by some miracle we go up this season we'll be coming straight back down. i think the villa ship is quite steady at the moment. no, we're not as higher as we would like but still we're a point off playoffs and a 4 game winning run was ended by a team that have been building for promotion for a little while now and are ready for the next step. we are not, and this (in my opinion) is not bruce's fault. sorry to use your words against you, but too many folks see the risk in keeping bruce and not see the risk in replacing him I think you make some good food for thought. I am not happy what I see on match day in terms of the individual quality, but I am torn between player and manager for the blame. I accept the manager signs them and I accept that he sets the team up.....but some things I see i find it hard to look any further than the player himself. The player himself has a responsibility to ensure as much as he can to be beating his opposite number.....If the player is better than him, I accept that its difficult to overcome superior talent, but then you make it as difficult as possible for your opponent to flourish. I don't see things like that.....I don't see a burning desire to negate an opponents superior skill. just an example of my point In fairly recent times both us and Blues played Arsenal At Wembley in Cup Games. We surrendered to their Superior skills set Blues was dogged and made themselves a complete nuisance and REFUSED to be overshadowed. We need to be much more business like in achieving Results against teams who are reputed to be better than us. This has been going on for years. Edited October 19, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 hour ago, tomav84 said: Think it's more a case of looking at the likes of wolves and cardiff and realising we're more than a managerial change away from the premier league. i have accepted we're in this league for at least a couple of seasons yet, and if by some miracle we go up this season we'll be coming straight back down. i think the villa ship is quite steady at the moment. no, we're not as higher as we would like but still we're a point off playoffs and a 4 game winning run was ended by a team that have been building for promotion for a little while now and are ready for the next step. we are not, and this (in my opinion) is not bruce's fault. sorry to use your words against you, but too many folks see the risk in keeping bruce and not see the risk in replacing him You don't think Bruce can get us promoted, but yet you see a risk in replacing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 hour ago, AntrimBlack said: Bruce said that he had watched some videos. I would have thought that one of the better teams in the division would have warranted a live appraisal. Actually, I have heard of some modern teams. also known as gradeschool teams here in the states.... that actually have other staff besides the manager go and watch upcoming opponents matches when there is a conflict. I hear they can spot tactics, limitations and even strengths that might need neutralized. i thought someone as current as Bruce would have been aware of this newfangled approach. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, TRO said: I think you make some good food for thought. I am not happy what I see on match day in terms of the individual quality, but I am torn between player and manager for the blame. I accept the manager signs them and I accept that he sets the team up.....but some things I see i find it hard to look any further than the player himself. The player himself has a responsibility to ensure as much as he can to be beating his opposite number.....If the player is better than him, I accept that its difficult to overcome superior talent, but then you make it as difficult as possible for your opponent to flourish. I don't see things like that.....I don't see a burning desire to negate an opponents superior skill. just an example of my point In fairly recent times both us and Blues played Arsenal At Wembley in Cup Games. We surrendered to their Superior skills set Blues was dogged and made themselves a complete nuisance and REFUSED to be overshadowed. We need to be much more business like in achieving Results against teams who are reputed to be better than us. Roughly 22 first team players in the past 12 months, and none of them can seem to be consistently committed. Even when they could manage that at other clubs before they got here. It just seems MUCH. MUCH easier to blame the one guy who is supposed to ensure they are up for it, always. The other possibility is that someone is slipping valium into our water bottles. But on top of that, this one guy blames players and fans when things don't go well. Maybe the shirking of personal responsibility starts at the top? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted October 17, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2017 33 minutes ago, srsmithusa said: Your outlook is so depressing and fatalistic. If we are doomed to the lower leagues for years yet, I despair. You actually make me even more inclined to take a risk. You really do surprise me. You see the downside risk of keeping him and expect it to happen. And are still OK with him staying! Baffling to me. please say more. I need some of what you are drinking to drown my sorrows, now. the way i see it, in terms of playing and non playing staff overall we are not ready to go up right now. i am happy for him to stay for now, because at this rate we will either make or narrowly miss out on playoffs. however way you look at it, that is progress on last season. if along the way a bloke comes along that the powers that be honestly thinks will take us to the next level, then fantastic. i guess what i mean is that only a year ago we had genuine fears of being relegated again, and i just think that it's too soon for the club to have another upheaval, even though there is a chance it might be to our benefit. i for one dont hate the championship. any team on any given day can beat each other (see blues friday evening) and i'm not quite ready to go back to having our arses handed to us week in week out by man city + co. that being said, i do want us to go up eventually - but only when we're ready, which right now we are not. i just dont believe a change of manager would turn us into cardiff or wolves. make no mistake, i dont see bruce as faultless. i was at cardiff and 6 or 7 wouldnt have flattered them, and i take no pleasure in seeing wolves tear us apart like that - believe me, it does pain me to see how far away we are. i think i'm just waiting to see how the season pans out before calling for his head when there are no obvious candidates to replace him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 55 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: The way I see it at this moment in time is: Risk of keeping Bruce is we narrowly miss out on playoffs. So why keep him? 55 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Risk of sacking Bruce is a complete unknown from promotion to relegation! With these players? not even ‚arry would achieve that 55 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Its a bit of a shit situation the club find themselves in. no its not. Either you want promotion or not. It‘s not gonna happen with Bruce, so roll the dice anyway, the risk is only in the choice. 55 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Easy to say in hindsight but those that said sack him at the end of last season were right. I would have got shot of him away v Cardiff - in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted October 17, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 17, 2017 22 minutes ago, TRO said: I think you make some good food for thought. I am not happy what I see on match day in terms of the individual quality, but I am torn between player and manager for the blame. I accept the manager signs them and I accept that he sets the team up.....but some things I see i find it hard to look any further than the player himself. The player himself has a responsibility to ensure as much as he can to be beating his opposite number.....If the player is better than him, I accept that its difficult to overcome superior talent, but then you make it as difficult as possible for your opponent to flourish. I don't see things like that.....I don't see a burning desire to negate an opponents superior skill. just an example of my point In fairly recent times both us and Blues played Arsenal At Wembley in Cup Games. We surrendered to their Superior skills set Blues was dogged and made themselves a complete nuisance and REFUSED to be overshadowed. We need to be much more business like in achieving Results against teams who are reputed to be better than us. met too and it's definitely a bit of both (yeah I'm stating the obvious). should we have flooded the midfield more on saturday? yeah probably, but still this would probably have at best resulted in a 0-0. i dont think we have the personnel to beat these teams at the moment which is shocking considering what we've spent...and there are many parties at fault for that one. the players definitely need to find another gear from somewhere. i have a genuine fear that blues will approach sunday week like a cup final and ours will approach it, well, similar to how they have approached many other games this season 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 1 hour ago, tomav84 said: team that have been building for promotion for a little while now and are ready for the next step. we are not, and this (in my opinion) is not bruce's fault. I’m sorry but Wolves were taken over in the summer of last year, the same as us, and their manager was appointed this summer, so he has games to get his team to top of the league. Steve Bruce that has had 12 months not 12 games, so who is to blame? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 Had Wolves been in 5/6 years of decline and mismanagement, changed their entire squad etc. It's a pointless comparison IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, tomav84 said: the way i see it, in terms of playing and non playing staff overall we are not ready to go up right now. i am happy for him to stay for now, because at this rate we will either make or narrowly miss out on playoffs. however way you look at it, that is progress on last season. if along the way a bloke comes along that the powers that be honestly thinks will take us to the next level, then fantastic. i guess what i mean is that only a year ago we had genuine fears of being relegated again, and i just think that it's too soon for the club to have another upheaval, even though there is a chance it might be to our benefit. i for one dont hate the championship. any team on any given day can beat each other (see blues friday evening) and i'm not quite ready to go back to having our arses handed to us week in week out by man city + co. that being said, i do want us to go up eventually - but only when we're ready, which right now we are not. i just dont believe a change of manager would turn us into cardiff or wolves. make no mistake, i dont see bruce as faultless. i was at cardiff and 6 or 7 wouldnt have flattered them, and i take no pleasure in seeing wolves tear us apart like that - believe me, it does pain me to see how far away we are. i think i'm just waiting to see how the season pans out before calling for his head when there are no obvious candidates to replace him. part of the difference is that I live in Texas. in the championship we are virtually NEVER on television. it's a thousand dollars to fly for a match. The marketing lost in the US is astronomical. 5 years ago I could say to people "I'm an Aston Villa fan" and many would say "Cool". Now if I say "I'm an aston villa fan" they say "who?". They never see us on TV (although nearly every premiership match is televised). The loss to the club every day we are down here is an astronomical loss to the club in fan base and merchandise sales. I want us to go up when we're ready. But I want us ready NOW. The economic losses of a slow recovery are not to be sneezed at. Edited October 17, 2017 by srsmithusa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 2 hours ago, srsmithusa said: Roughly 22 first team players in the past 12 months, and none of them can seem to be consistently committed. Even when they could manage that at other clubs before they got here. It just seems MUCH. MUCH easier to blame the one guy who is supposed to ensure they are up for it, always. The other possibility is that someone is slipping valium into our water bottles. But on top of that, this one guy blames players and fans when things don't go well. Maybe the shirking of personal responsibility starts at the top? I cannot look you in the eye and say you are wrong and I am not going to say that. but i see things, i am hard pressed to say that is the fault of the manager. He is responsible for many things in relation to the playing side of the footall club.......but he can't play for them.....I hope you appreciate that. as an example Ron saunders and Roy McLaren did not instigate the ability in Andy Gray to be a dynamic centre forward,who did not get the notion to be passive or laid back or go with the flow.....He wanted to win a game of tiddly winks. That was not down to the manager, it was down to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 2 hours ago, srsmithusa said: Roughly 22 first team players in the past 12 months, and none of them can seem to be consistently committed. Even when they could manage that at other clubs before they got here. It just seems MUCH. MUCH easier to blame the one guy who is supposed to ensure they are up for it, always. The other possibility is that someone is slipping valium into our water bottles. But on top of that, this one guy blames players and fans when things don't go well. Maybe the shirking of personal responsibility starts at the top? I cannot look you in the eye and say you are wrong and I am not going to say that. but i see things, i am hard pressed to say that is the fault of the manager. He is responsible for many things in relation to the playing side of the footall club.......but he can't play for them.....I hope you appreciate that. as an example Ron saunders and Roy McLaren did not instigate the ability in Andy Gray to be a dynamic centre forward,who did not get the notion to be passive or laid back or go with the flow.....He wanted to win a game of tiddly winks. That was not down to the manager, it was down to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 2 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: I’m sorry but Wolves were taken over in the summer of last year, the same as us, and their manager was appointed this summer, so he has games to get his team to top of the league. Steve Bruce that has had 12 months not 12 games, so who is to blame? Dave for whatever reason they may have just out flanked us in the transfer market. blimey they have had enough years to get it right. Nuno may have just arrived,but what was they doing before? ......I just think our Aston Villa can play much, much better than that.....and should be able to play much better than that. No disresect to Wolves, but many teams in the division,would have beaten us with a bit of tempo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 I doubt many fans would be upset if they sacked him tomorrow. I actually wonder if there are any? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 17, 2017 Share Posted October 17, 2017 5 minutes ago, TRO said: Dave for whatever reason they may have just out flanked us in the transfer market. blimey they have had enough years to get it right. Nuno may have just arrived,but what was they doing before? ......I just think our Aston Villa can play much, much better than that.....and should be able to play much better than that. No disresect to Wolves, but many teams in the division,would have beaten us with a bit of tempo. You think too much of our players. Wolves made them look ordinary because that's what they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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