Steve Bruce

[Demitri_C]

23 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Soooooo... is that a yes or a no?

Depends on number of factors doesnt it

1. Was the manger backed financially 

2. Circumstances he came in

3. Manner of the results

Soooooooo did that answer the question? 

Edited September 26, 2017 by Demitri_C

[Stevo985]

Just now, Demitri_C said:

Depends on number of factors doesnt it

1. Was the manger backed financially 

2. Circumstances he came in

3. Manner of the results

Soooooooo did that answer the question?

No. It deliberately dodges the question.

But anyway, you've kind of proved my point anyway. The win % depends on a number of factors, and if those factors aren't the same or almost the same, then comparing win % is a fool's errand. Hence comparing Bruce's win % with other recent villa manager's isn't valid because the one huge factor of us being in a different league isn't accounted for.

[Demitri_C]

5 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

No. It deliberately dodges the question.

But anyway, you've kind of proved my point anyway. The win % depends on a number of factors, and if those factors aren't the same or almost the same, then comparing win % is a fool's errand. Hence comparing Bruce's win % with other recent villa manager's isn't valid because the one huge factor of us being in a different league isn't accounted for.

I dont agree, but what do we ever agree on? 

[Stevo985]

9 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I dont agree, but what do we ever agree on? 

If anything you've implied that if Bruce had the same win % as Lambert he'd be doing a BETTER job than Lambert did  

[Keyblade]

Bruce should have the best win % out of our modern managers. He has one of the best teams in the division as well as the biggest budget.

You can't compare him to Lambert and McLeish and co who had terrible squads and minuscule budgets. Our expectations then were to survive. Our expectations now is top 6 minimum. 

The only one here can be compared to perhaps is MON, even though by right we should be aiming for top 2 and so he should have a better win % than him too.

[dn1982]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

Personally I think it's as daft to suggest things are looking good as it is to suggest they remain dreadful.

IMO we are at something of a crossroads. Over the next few games things could easily go either way.

Those who think it's " all coming together" need to ask themselves whether we are just seeing the Kodja effect like we did last year.

Those who think it's just a couple of good results against poor sides can reflect on Bruces " confession" that he HAS deliberately been negative/cautious/defensive ( too much so IMO) but that he now feels that's all behind us - great if - very very belatedly - true.

His record, percentages or not, has been somewhere between poor and average, as has the football.

We have a very good first 14 and a good squad - it's been poorly used but there are signs he is finally realising that.

He lost it with those comments about hysteria. But he's reigned back on those too now.

The 'window' - of opportunity as I saw it - to get rid of him is, in my view, gone. We will regret it I think, in that he will get some results but nowhere near enough.

However, gone it is. I think we are stuck - or blessed - with him now.

Tonight is a great opportunity against a lowly side to show he means business.

 

I think we will be in and around the playoffs now unlike last year. If Bruce avoids a dip I think we will at least get in there if he manages to get us playing well we could even challenge automatic. I hope Bruce gets more confident as the team does and lets them attack a bit more we have the players. 

[praisedmambo]

Erm. Surely the best win ratio to compare him to is with Di Matteo? 

That comparison paints a grey area for me. We were shit when Bruce came...that's a fact. He's got a decent team in a second level league... we're pretty unconvincing...all these things I find I difficult to ignore when assessing Bruce. My conclusion is that I'm bored watching us, but results are picking up and then my brain decides that I'm so jaded by it all I can't be bothered to think about it. 

[AshVilla]

The two Marshalls had the best win percentage.

Why they were got rid off is beyond me they could have been the answer.

[srsmithusa]

2 hours ago, terrytini said:

Personally I think it's as daft to suggest things are looking good as it is to suggest they remain dreadful.

IMO we are at something of a crossroads. Over the next few games things could easily go either way.

Those who think it's " all coming together" need to ask themselves whether we are just seeing the Kodja effect like we did last year.

Those who think it's just a couple of good results against poor sides can reflect on Bruces " confession" that he HAS deliberately been negative/cautious/defensive ( too much so IMO) but that he now feels that's all behind us - great if - very very belatedly - true.

His record, percentages or not, has been somewhere between poor and average, as has the football.

We have a very good first 14 and a good squad - it's been poorly used but there are signs he is finally realising that.

He lost it with those comments about hysteria. But he's reigned back on those too now.

The 'window' - of opportunity as I saw it - to get rid of him is, in my view, gone. We will regret it I think, in that he will get some results but nowhere near enough.

However, gone it is. I think we are stuck - or blessed - with him now.

Tonight is a great opportunity against a lowly side to show he means business.

 

That is well reasoned.  rational thought.  I completely agree with every word.  clearly it has to be in the wrong thread.  nothing this reasonable is permitted in this thread.

[DaveAV1]

2 minutes ago, AshVilla said:

The two Marshalls had the best win percentage.

Why they were got rid off is beyond me they could have been the answer.

Absolutely and in the recent trend to only assess one or two games and consider that as reflective of a manager's value, then I'm calling for the dream team of Marshall and Marshall. 

At least they'll know how to marshall the squad .

[AshVilla]

35 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Absolutely and in the recent trend to only assess one or two games and consider that as reflective of a manager's value, then I'm calling for the dream team of Marshall and Marshall. 

At least they'll know how to marshall the squad .

According to some Allardyce was the best England manager we ever had.

I don't see why the lame logic can't be applied here.

Edited September 26, 2017 by AshVilla

[AntrimBlack]

37 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Absolutely and in the recent trend to only assess one or two games and consider that as reflective of a manager's value, then I'm calling for the dream team of Marshall and Marshall. 

At least they'll know how to marshall the squad .

Not sure about that. Has anyone ever seen them together?

[lexicon]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

Bruce should have the best win % out of our modern managers. He has one of the best teams in the division as well as the biggest budget.

You can't compare him to Lambert and McLeish and co who had terrible squads and minuscule budgets. Our expectations then were to survive. Our expectations now is top 6 minimum. 

The only one here can be compared to perhaps is MON, even though by right we should be aiming for top 2 and so he should have a better win % than him too.

Lambert had it worse than McLeish did IMO. 

All it goes to show is that it's yet another stat that is overstated and largely underanalysed. 

[lexicon]

1 hour ago, Keyblade said:

Bruce should have the best win % out of our modern managers. He has one of the best teams in the division as well as the biggest budget.

You can't compare him to Lambert and McLeish and co who had terrible squads and minuscule budgets. Our expectations then were to survive. Our expectations now is top 6 minimum. 

The only one here can be compared to perhaps is MON, even though by right we should be aiming for top 2 and so he should have a better win % than him too.

Lambert had it worse than McLeish did IMO. 

All it goes to show is that it's yet another stat that is overstated and largely underanalysed. 

[DCJonah]

4 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

You are aware we are in the top 3 form guide at the moment? If that is not promotion form then hardly any sides in the league are! 

So if crystal palace win a few games that will be classed as league title winning form. 

Bottom line is we didn't finish near the playoffs last year and we aren't in them yet. 

We've had a decent month, but we aren't in promotion places yet. 

Our form this season is not promotion form. You can pick a few games but then you could pick a few games to justify any point you wanted to make. 

[jacketspuds]

Bruce may have one of the best win percentages but it's still not good enough for where we need to get to. 

But it is surprising as I thought it would be worse than that. I just think the manner of the performances breeds negativity and pessimism in my head.

Looking forward to tonight even more now.

[DCJonah]

4 hours ago, bobzy said:

We're 2nd in the last 6 games in terms of form.

 

Maybe finishing 2nd doesn't mean promotion.  Maybe you've deliberately looked past the use of the word "form". 

 

(Edit:  Crap!  Sheffield derby has put us 3rd and 3rd doesn't get promotion.  Argh )

Well 6 games means we are in good form. I've got no issue admitting that. We are and I think it will continue over the next few games. 

IMO, you can't just pick a small sample of games and claim it's promotion form. For me promotion form is averaging the amount of points that will usually get you promoted. We aren't at that point and my original post on the matter said if we do I think there will be a lot less concerns and calls for the manager to leave. 

[DCJonah]

2 hours ago, Keyblade said:

Bruce should have the best win % out of our modern managers. He has one of the best teams in the division as well as the biggest budget.

You can't compare him to Lambert and McLeish and co who had terrible squads and minuscule budgets. Our expectations then were to survive. Our expectations now is top 6 minimum. 

The only one here can be compared to perhaps is MON, even though by right we should be aiming for top 2 and so he should have a better win % than him too.

Even comparing him to MON is pointless. When MON was here there were still 5/6 clubs we couldn't compete with when it came to attracting players. 

There isn't a single club in this league that you could say that about. 

[Lerner's Driver]

It's sooo much fun on the magical Steven Bruce roundabout. Round and round we go, just like the wheels on the bus, except the bus is going somewhere and the magical Steven Bruce roundabout just goes reassuringly round and round. Forever. Hell, even Steven Bruce is round. I don't like Steven Bruce, or Steven Round for that matter.

[sheepyvillian]

2 hours ago, Keyblade said:

Bruce should have the best win % out of our modern managers. He has one of the best teams in the division as well as the biggest budget.

You can't compare him to Lambert and McLeish and co who had terrible squads and minuscule budgets. Our expectations then were to survive. Our expectations now is top 6 minimum. 

The only one here can be compared to perhaps is MON, even though by right we should be aiming for top 2 and so he should have a better win % than him too.

Your right , my friend . None of the managers who preceded MON had the financial security that Bruce has , and with the exception of McLiesh  , the football wasn't has boring as it is now ,imo , that is .