Steve Bruce

[TRO]

7 hours ago, peterms said:

People communicate differently online than they do face to face.  That's just what happens.  It's so well-known as to be an uncontroversial observation.

I must live under a stone.

[sheepyvillian]

25 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

 

 

What the hell is wrong with Bruce?

Where does one start ?

[briny_ear]

Somehow this reply got cut adrift from the post I was quoting.

Will have another try.

Edited September 26, 2017 by briny_ear

[briny_ear]

3 hours ago, peterms said:

Don't just focus on comments on internet sites.

I believe that no home gate this season has equalled the average of last season.

People are choosing not to attend.  If I were the owner, that would concern me greatly.

Well, that's an interesting, though entirely different, issue.

It's quite early in the season to be drawing conclusions about crowd numbers - it could be affected by the teams we have played - but it is of course true our home attendances are well down on last season. I tend to think that winning games and challenging for promotion is one of the biggest factors in pushing up crowd numbers. Just look at the Championship sides with significantly higher crowd numbers so far - Leeds, Wolves, Cardiff.

Nottingham Forest also have much better attendances so that doesn't quite fit the theory - maybe that is a reflection of a decent start (now rapidly fizzling out) compared with very poor stuff last season. And of course one other club with improved attendances is Birmingham City. No doubt the glitz and glamour of Mr H Redknapp played its part.

Xia could decide to get in a manager whose primary attraction would be to increase home gates. The dangers of having that as your main motivation are demonstrated by the fate of SHA under Mr Redknapp. And I remember a similar disastrous appointment when Villa brought in Tommy Docherty to help us get out of the 2nd Division as was. Result - big buzz round the club, lots of publicity, shambolic football and ultimate relegation to the 3rd Division.

I would recommend Dr Xia not to have crowd size at the top of his mind when thinking managerial appointments. The better approach is to try to get improved results and to challenge for promotion. The bigger crowds should follow.

As discussed sometimes in this thread, if Bruce can't get those better results and progress up the table, he will have to go, although I have argued elsewhere this will not necessarily be the joyous and wholly positive development that many on this site seem to assume.

So, yes, Xia should worry about attendances but his main concern should still be to get a team that can improve and increase its success. The bigger disaster would be to get higher crowds through a media/fan-friendly managerial appointment only to leave them disillusioned by a failing team.

[peterms]

7 hours ago, TRO said:

I must live under a stone.

Then I imagine your face-to-face communication must be severely limited.  Your internet connection seems ok, though. 

 

[dn1982]

13 hours ago, blandy said:

I do think that. And for that reason - That's what I said! 

 

It was supposed to read You'd think not you don't.  We are on the same page! 

[dn1982]

11 hours ago, briny_ear said:

There's "scrutiny", which, if done sensibly, factually and constructively,  is legitimate,

Then there is a constant chorus of how he is a "dinoasur", will never get us promoted, should be sacked immediately if we are to have a hope of surviving. And, worse, there is hoping we will lose matches so he will be sacked. That is all out of order in my view. It has been the dominant voice on Villatalk for months, and I guess other internet sites that I don't look at.

I think Bruce has every right to criticise that sort of nonsense - it would be an odd sort of world where people could hurl abuse at him on social media and he wasn't allowed to comment.

Whenever he criticises the hysteria on social media I nod in agreement.

 

Well calling him a dinosaur is correct in my opinion. He is an out dated manager. He's tactically inept and he's default style is sit deep and compact. Our football is awful. We've been out passed by nearly all the teams we've played so far. The reason the dominant voice has been against Bruce is most fans have seen the football get worse over his tenure and th results have not been good enough. Looking at Bruces record he is underacheiving and has done all of 2017. How is it nonsense to call him out on that? The fans wanting us to lose why I don't agree with it I can understand it have had enough and can't see him becoming this new manager in time to get us playing good attacking football and winning enough games to succeed. Football is a very emotive game. Fans do get hysterical but a manager with 20 years experience should now that and realise if he isn't achieving the targets he should be he will get calls for his head. Bruce however has a loyal base of reporters who've bought into his revisionism of last year being about survival, He's only been here 6 months. Not having 2 strikers to play up front when Kodija was injured etc etc. If we had a press that wasn't up his arse maybe they'd call him out on some of these ridiculous statements or even ask him is it ok for fans to worry you won't be in the promotion places when your record in over 40 games is crap? He's had 2 wins now but needs another 2 wins to get up to 14 from points this month from 6 winnable games. That's the form we have to have all season not just the occasional month. We've become that used to hardly winning we don't realise wining regularly is normal in this division and winning 2 out of 3 games is needed to have a chance of promotion. 

[briny_ear]

1 hour ago, dn1982 said:

Well calling him a dinosaur is correct in my opinion. He is an out dated manager. He's tactically inept and he's default style is sit deep and compact. Our football is awful. We've been out passed by nearly all the teams we've played so far. The reason the dominant voice has been against Bruce is most fans have seen the football get worse over his tenure and th results have not been good enough. Looking at Bruces record he is underacheiving and has done all of 2017. How is it nonsense to call him out on that? The fans wanting us to lose why I don't agree with it I can understand it have had enough and can't see him becoming this new manager in time to get us playing good attacking football and winning enough games to succeed. Football is a very emotive game. Fans do get hysterical but a manager with 20 years experience should now that and realise if he isn't achieving the targets he should be he will get calls for his head. Bruce however has a loyal base of reporters who've bought into his revisionism of last year being about survival, He's only been here 6 months. Not having 2 strikers to play up front when Kodija was injured etc etc. If we had a press that wasn't up his arse maybe they'd call him out on some of these ridiculous statements or even ask him is it ok for fans to worry you won't be in the promotion places when your record in over 40 games is crap? He's had 2 wins now but needs another 2 wins to get up to 14 from points this month from 6 winnable games. That's the form we have to have all season not just the occasional month. We've become that used to hardly winning we don't realise wining regularly is normal in this division and winning 2 out of 3 games is needed to have a chance of promotion. 

The bit I've highlighted is a good example of the sort of name-calling that has become routine on this site. My only point is that if you think it's OK to speak of him like this, why get uppity if he hits back on the same level? He has freedom of speech just as much as you.

By the way, when choosing the "D" word to fling at him, bear in mind that dinosaurs were the dominant species for around 130m years so you may have a long wait for him to go.

 

Edited September 26, 2017 by briny_ear

[dn1982]

11 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

The bit I've highlighted is a good example of the sort of name-calling that has become routine on this site. My only point is that if you think it's OK to speak of him like this, why get uppity if he hits back on the same level? He has freedom of speech just as much as you.

By the way, when choosing the "D" word to fling at him, bear in mind that dinosaurs were the dominant species for around 130m years so you may have a long wait for him to go.

 

 

11 minutes ago, briny_ear said:

The bit I've highlighted is a good example of the sort of name-calling that has become routine on this site. My only point is that if you think it's OK to speak of him like this, why get uppity if he hits back on the same level? He has freedom of speech just as much as you.

By the way, when choosing the "D" word to fling at him, bear in mind that dinosaurs were the dominant species for around 130m years so you may have a long wait for him to go.

 

Calling him a dinosaur is to show he's a manager out of his time and to save writing down all the other stuff about tactics, style etc He may still get us up but is there a villa fan going that can honestly say our football is good? Bruce can stick up for himself but he needs to understand what mass hysteria is before he bangs on about it. Bruce seems to embrace being called potato head something he can't change yet moans at being called a dinosaur something he can

[Demitri_C]

33 minutes ago, dn1982 said:

 

Calling him a dinosaur is to show he's a manager out of his time and to save writing down all the other stuff about tactics, style etc He may still get us up but is there a villa fan going that can honestly say our football is good? Bruce can stick up for himself but he needs to understand what mass hysteria is before he bangs on about it. Bruce seems to embrace being called potato head something he can't change yet moans at being called a dinosaur something he 

im not teally interested in the name calling side of it. Personally i am more interested in his performance on the pitch. Bruce win ratio is 41.03% which only MON and Gregory have bettered (slightly i might add) 

Bruce needs to do better i agree but the way he gets slated on here you think he was as woeful as di matteo,  lambert and sherwood. 

[dn1982]

13 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

im not teally interested in the name calling side of it. Personally i am more interested in his performance on the pitch. Bruce win ratio is 41.03% which only MON and Gregory have bettered (slightly i might add) 

Bruce needs to do better i agree but the way he gets slated on here you think he was as woeful as di matteo,  lambert and sherwood. 

Those stats would be relavent if we were in the premier league! We arent. We are in the Championship with a squad that's one of the best that's was assembled at quite a cost. 2 games ago Bruces record this season matched RDM. Do you think Bruce has done well since he's been here? For me he started well but in 2017 we've been awful. The last 2 results got him back in the mix but we are still off the pace. We have another 2 winnable games that will hopefully get us in the playoff positions but we can't afford September to be a one off it has to be the norm. Since Bruce has bee here it's been a rollercoaster of results but we can't afford any dips from now till May. Bruce needs to get over 50% win percentage to get into the playoffs and you seem happy at 41% do you want to be promoted? 

[striker]

It's ok quoting stats but you also have to keep them in context concerning the situation those managers found themselves in.

Bruce is in a lower division against lower quality teams with probably the best players and considerable financial aid available to him. He also has more games to play.

Considering he finished 13th last season presiding over a poor start this season with the above available to him no wonder he has had to face criticism.

 

[mattjpa]

34 minutes ago, dn1982 said:

 

Calling him a dinosaur is to show he's a manager out of his time and to save writing down all the other stuff about tactics, style etc He may still get us up but is there a villa fan going that can honestly say our football is good? Bruce can stick up for himself but he needs to understand what mass hysteria is before he bangs on about it. Bruce seems to embrace being called potato head something he can't change yet moans at being called a dinosaur something he can

this thread constitutes mass hysteria. Bruce is doing what he thinks he needs to do to get us up. If that includes sitting back and letting Nottingham Forest act like Barcelona in their own half then so be it, we got three points and controlled the majority of the game without the lions share of possession. for me, he has got teams up before, he has earned the right to do as he sees fit. While we are achieving promotion form and results I fail to see how there can be much of an argument against him (apart from some faux outrage at throw away interview comments, mainly coming from his biggest detractors and throwers of insults).

When  results turn again and when it becomes an improbability for us to hit playoffs we should part ways

 

[mattjpa]

1 minute ago, striker said:

It's ok quoting stats but you also have to keep them in context concerning the situation those managers found themselves in.

Bruce is in a lower division against lower quality teams with probably the best players and considerable financial aid available to him. He also has more games to play.

Considering he finished 13th last season presiding over a poor start this season with the above available to him no wonder he has had to face criticism.

 

And yet the players you describe as "probably the best" are a combination of the remnants of the worst ever team ive seen in my lifetime with the best players cherry picked off, RDM's bizarre spending spree and Bruces own signings who he is frequently criticised on here for.

[RimmyJimmer]

Yeah the hysterical response to his hysterical jibe has had me in hysterics.

And no, that isn't sarcasm 

[peterms]

33 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

im not teally interested in the name calling side of it. Personally i am more interested in his performance on the pitch. Bruce win ratio is 41.03% which only MON and Gregory have bettered (slightly i might add) 

Bruce needs to do better i agree but the way he gets slated on here you think he was as woeful as di matteo,  lambert and sherwood. 

That table says to me that we must make sure our next manager is named "Marshall".

[R.Bear]

I dont like Bruce, in fact I cant stand him BUT we are unbeaten in 6 and won the last two. Yes we havent been convincing but I really don't give a shit. In this division it's all about results and for now, we are getting them. If he wasnt going to be sacked after the first 3 games then he isnt going to be this season. Our team is elite and by FAR the best in the division. We should coast to promotion if we can somehow find a way of maximising this teams talent and potential. It says a lot that we havent even come close to doing that and we're 2 points off the playoffs and 7 off top.

I dont have faith in Bruce but I do have faith in this team.

Edited September 26, 2017 by R.Bear

[Demitri_C]

23 minutes ago, dn1982 said:

Those stats would be relavent if we were in the premier league! We arent. We are in the Championship with a squad that's one of the best that's was assembled at quite a cost. 2 games ago Bruces record this season matched RDM. Do you think Bruce has done well since he's been here? For me he started well but in 2017 we've been awful. The last 2 results got him back in the mix but we are still off the pace. We have another 2 winnable games that will hopefully get us in the playoff positions but we can't afford September to be a one off it has to be the norm. Since Bruce has bee here it's been a rollercoaster of results but we can't afford any dips from now till May. Bruce needs to get over 50% win percentage to get into the playoffs and you seem happy at 41% do you want to be promoted? 

So now your saying bruces record is not beey relevant because he is in a lower league? Its nit his fault he took over in this league. Di matteo spent more than bruce has and flopped miserably.

Sherwood blew how much and look at his record.

To answer your question am i happy with bruce? No not in all aspects. At the start of the season i had my concerns and wanted to see if bruce could turn it around and so far he has done that. Some will argue he has had favable fixtures but look at leeds they went on to lose to millwall. You have to beat whats in front of you.

I am hoping the squad just needed to gel and fitness to get better so i am willing to be patient and give him the next 5 games and see where we are. If we are in the play offs he should stay. If we see more drab like the cardiff game i think it will be worth looking at a change.

Defensively we have looked solid the last few weeks and our midfield is now starting to link well with the attackers and create opportunities. This is something we lacked last year.

My biggest concern is dm. Whelan for me looks poor and the quicker jedinak is back the better for us. I want to see us win more games more convincingly but i accept bruces football will not be attractive on the eye. But i am ok with that as long as we are winning games.  If we are playing crap football and losing then i will start askibg questions.

His recent form for me in no way warrants the sack.

[dn1982]

22 minutes ago, mattjpa said:

this thread constitutes mass hysteria. Bruce is doing what he thinks he needs to do to get us up. If that includes sitting back and letting Nottingham Forest act like Barcelona in their own half then so be it, we got three points and controlled the majority of the game without the lions share of possession. for me, he has got teams up before, he has earned the right to do as he sees fit. While we are achieving promotion form and results I fail to see how there can be much of an argument against him (apart from some faux outrage at throw away interview comments, mainly coming from his biggest detractors and throwers of insults).

When  results turn again and when it becomes an improbability for us to hit playoffs we should part ways

 

We aren't acheiving promotion form. You can say that when we are in the playoffs or when we are over 50/55%  win ratio. The last 2 wins don't make the past 11 months just disappear. I'll take us having 30% of the ball every game if the results are there. I  Don't care how we get up as long as we do. I've said that in numerous posts but I can understand people doubting Bruce being able to do it going off of his record here. Bruce has got teams up before he's also failed at other clubs. Let's hope we are in the former. 

[dn1982]

7 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

So now your saying bruces record is not beey relevant because he is in a lower league? Its nit his fault he took over in this league. Di matteo spent more than bruce has and flopped miserably.

Sherwood blew how much and look at his record.

To answer your question am i happy with bruce? No not in all aspects. At the start of the season i had my concerns and wanted to see if bruce could turn it around and so far he has done that. Some will argue he has had favable fixtures but look at leeds they went on to lose to millwall. You have to beat whats in front of you.

I am hoping the squad just needed to gel and fitness to get better so i am willing to be patient and give him the next 5 games and see where we are. If we are in the play offs he should stay. If we see more drab like the cardiff game i think it will be worth looking at a change.

Defensively we have looked solid the last few weeks and our midfield is now starting to link well with the attackers and create opportunities. This is something we lacked last year.

My biggest concern is dm. Whelan for me looks poor and the quicker jedinak is back the better for us. I want to see us win more games more convincingly but i accept bruces football will not be attractive on the eye. But i am ok with that as long as we are winning games.  If we are playing crap football and losing then i will start askibg questions.

His recent form for me in no way warrants the sack.

I've not asked for Bruce to be sacked. If he was I wouldn't be concerned but I realise he won't be going anywhere. You threw up stats to show Bruce us doing well but he's getting 41% in a league where we need over 50% for the playoffs and 60% to challenge for automatic. Bruce has been here 11 months I think RDM was here about 11 weeks and yet at this point there's not too much in their record and if we had a bad week virtually identical to when he was sacked. 

I hope we can get better because I think if like last year we hit a run of poor player form we aren't good enough as a team to turn it around quickly. We can't afford any dips from now on.