Steve Bruce

[srsmithusa]

36 minutes ago, TRO said:

Just a teaser to all the Bruouters.

If a scenario manifested itself where you were in the corporate ( most likely place for it to happen)and introduced to Steve Bruce would you employ the same level of criticism or would you react like most Villa Fans would to meeting their manager.

just interested to know?

I would treat pretty much anyone I meet with kindness and respect.  Even Brinners.  (sorry if there should be an extra u in there.  I couldn't find the spelling in any dictionary.)

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, peterms said:

Wouldn't it be like any other group of people and any other situation?  When addressing someone face to face there are requirements of social interaction which are not present with online communication, and which affect both what is said and how it is said.

So while if Bruce said "Can I ask what you honestly think of my style of management and me staying as the manager?" people may well say "Well to be honest I think it's too negative, it's unattractive to watch, the results don't match the quality of the squad, and I think a change of manager would be in the best long-term interests of the club", but they are very unlikely to say "You're crap and you should get out now". 

Some may tone it down further or employ gentler ways of saying it, and some may feel uncomfortable about making direct personal criticism to someone's face.  And of course if the invitation to offer an opinion hadn't been extended, there would be further social norms that would make such comments harder.

What do you think would happen, and what would people say?

Well, I can tell you straight.....If it were me.

I would not write anything on Social media that i would not say to someones face in person.

I would not write a letter to anyone or make a phone call to include things that i would not say face to face.....but thats just me.

Consistency is important in my mind.

Its unlikely that Bruce would invite such comments as he probably feels nothing is wrong.....but I could not smile and curtsey knowing I have been campaigning for the mans head.......I would have to walk away and retain my dignity......I thinks its most unlikely folk would say what you suggested.....more your third paragraph.

Not to cause a stir, I think most would embrace the situation as if they had never said a bad word about him......as i said most, not all.

very few, would refuse his company, but under such circumstances it would be the most dignified thing to do.

[TRO]

29 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

Thnx

And if I did meet Bruce in or out of Corporate, I would without a doubt question him strongly about his tenure so far. In a respectfull manner of course as I would like a respectful explanation from him.

Depending how he dealt with an honest fan asking honest questions/reasonings I'd take it from there.

Any patronising or disrespect response would probably result in me also being equally disrespectful and patronising.

Fair play.

[dn1982]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Well I think the views on Social Media can be diluted when it comes to the real world of face to face....I take your point, but I think he is going by the mood of the crowd.....certainly those around me whilst, aware of the shortfalls , are not calling for his head and when i have said some are, they frown in general.

Its well documented the season he had last year, and what he inherited,so I won't go in to all that, but he still got 15 wins out of 35....not bad considering prior to that we had 5 wins in 18 months( now all that pent up frustration of that run cannot be dumped on SB)....we have started slow, no doubt and the football is unconvincing at times and convincing other times.

I think your reference to 10 pts off 6th could be misleading......for a team who are geared for promotion it would be "meat and Veg" our record of 1 win in 11 games was relegation form, so it would require a mammoth ask to instill a winning mental attitude in to that, in fact we were conceding if a cloud came over thats how brittle we was. Other more established teams were gradually building momentum and winning games, so the final placing represented 19th place which was Birmingham 27 points off 6th place......much of a difference in gap.

 

If he wins the next 2 he will have a win ratio of 45% that is 2% short of last years manager who finished 6th on 47%. FWIW

My point is this, you can talk stats until you are blue in the face.....Its all about winning your games.....and in my view its wise to take one at a time....and win it.

We have clearly not won enough so far, but we still have 75% of the season to go, yeah laughable isn't it......In my view we still have not shown our best form by a long shot and still have half the team that have played in those 25% of games....so its feasible, we will see them play better.

We ALL want to see us play football that blows teams away like in 74-75 season, but we are not there yet.

Its not as good as we would like, but its not as bad either......and in my view as slow as it is , its gradually getting better.

 

My biggest point is he should stop mentioning the fans as a negative and start bigging up his team and our chances of going up. So far it's been everybody else's fault but his. No more excuses. Crowds are dropping because of the poor football and the negativity. If we have to watch boring football make the focus us going up. We need big home crowds driving us on. We need to build momentum. 2 more wins this week get in the playoffs and start making the fans believe again. 

[Rodders]

not really. Social etiquette and relationships are fluid, one is rarely consistent with how you speak to everyone, just think between close family members, and distant ones, friends and strangers, and in person and in text is no different, not to mention there's a key difference between arguing about someone and with someone.  Whilst I think generally "we" could all be better online, it's really not hypocritical or anything that people who might exclaim " oh for gods sake why is this man still here! in annoyance in ths thread, might be polite in a direct conversation with the man. 

[srsmithusa]

18 minutes ago, TRO said:

I don't feel that way smithy ,hope you don't mind the colloquial terminology.

I am enjoying watching us getting better albeit slow.

I still don't think these boards are a true reflection of what i hear in the pubs/bars and in the ground.....and that by the way is not meant to be a criticism of the comments on hear.

I have played devils advocate with many and mirrored some of the comments on hear and got scowls.

I think the majority i talk to appreciate the circumstances that have been more than well documented on hear and willing to accept the progress albeit slow.

Make no mistake, about my support.....If we nose dive and go in to a period of getting the deck chairs out and losing, i will be on his case too.

I'll  hold you to that.

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, dn1982 said:

My biggest point is he should stop mentioning the fans as a negative and start bigging up his team and our chances of going up. So far it's been everybody else's fault but his. No more excuses. Crowds are dropping because of the poor football and the negativity. If we have to watch boring football make the focus us going up. We need big home crowds driving us on. We need to build momentum. 2 more wins this week get in the playoffs and start making the fans believe again. 

Look, The objectives of the Brouters and the Brinners is exactly the same.

and not to put a finer point on it but a win or a reversal affects our opinions albeit very slightly......confidence at B6 in every aspect is brittle.

I do actually agree he should stop mentioning the fans but I am not privvy to what he has been subjected too.....perhaps if we all had it we would react too.

We all have the same objective but vary in our views of the RATE at which our improvement should be at.....I am hoping our opinions can merge as we encounter more and more wins.

I think the likelyhood of that happening is getting stronger.

ps Watch we will lose tommorow

[Condimentalist]

32 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I would give him time if promotion wasn't so make or break this season. If we don't get promoted it's pretty much over for us. And with the team we have it's doubly imperative.

It's precisely this that makes me think we should stick. Changing the manager mid season has worked out pretty badly for us in the past, why take the chance when results are looking better? We know that Bruce is capable of building a winning team at this level. If it didn't matter if we went up this year I'd take a longer term perspective and get someone to try to build something but we need results now above all else.

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

I'll  hold you to that.

 

6 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

I'll  hold you to that.

I will have to learn how to spell "here".

ps these big words trip me up.

Edited September 25, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

42 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I would give him time if promotion wasn't so make or break this season. If we don't get promoted it's pretty much over for us. And with the team we have it's doubly imperative.

I honestly do get how important it is....but too much pressure, even on ourselves as fans, isn't healthy, its suffocating.....The team need to be able to breath and so do we.

We just need to concentrate game by game and WIN......The rest will take care of itself.

If the fans are at it....they will get us over the line.

[peterms]

35 minutes ago, TRO said:

I would not write anything on Social media that i would not say to someones face in person.

People communicate differently online than they do face to face.  That's just what happens.  It's so well-known as to be an uncontroversial observation.

[blandy]

1 hour ago, dn1982 said:

he should stop mentioning the fans as a negative

He should, maybe. But not for the reasons some people think.

It's counter productive, is why. But I think it's reasonable (if he feels it's the case) for a human being to respond to strong criticism with a mention of (what he sees as ) Hysteria or OTT reaction to the job he's been doing.

He's not criticised "the fans" or been negative about "the fans" - he's said something along the lines of "some of the hysteria has been ridiculous". Which I can see from his p.o.v. might be the case.

[dn1982]

3 minutes ago, blandy said:

He should, maybe. But not for the reasons some people think.

It's counter productive, is why. But I think it's reasonable (if he feels it's the case) for a human being to respond to strong criticism with a mention of (what he sees as ) Hysteria or OTT reaction to the job he's been doing.

He's not criticised "the fans" or been negative about "the fans" - he's said something along the lines of "some of the hysteria has been ridiculous". Which I can see from his p.o.v. might be the case.

He's been having a dig at the fans for a few weeks but he was getting stick for the results he'd been getting. He needs to look up hysteria. He was rightly getting criticised and we are still under achieving. I don't mind Bruce coming out fighting it shows he wants to do well but some of the revisionism is silly. It seems he's oblivious of his actual record here. As I said he needs to get the club all pulling in the one direction and that's for promotion. I think we all will take 25 more awful games if we go up. At the minute I don't think the majority of fans believe we are in with a chance of challenging the playoffs let alone going up. Bruce needs to big up our chances. We need 2 more wins this week then who knows there may be a promotion hysteria. 

[blandy]

2 minutes ago, dn1982 said:

some of the revisionism is silly. It seems he's oblivious of his actual record here

Oh, yeah. No argument from me, there. I just kind of think we shouldn't be all shrinking violets one minute "wha wha! he said some of the criticism was hysterical" while "we" call him all sorts of names and all that.

I don't really rate Bruce as all that, and never have, but sometimes criticism does get a bit bonkers.

[sne]

Bruce spends a lot of time on social media does he? 

He's come a long way from the guy who when he was at Sunderland admitted he didn't even know how to log on to the computer.

[dn1982]

13 minutes ago, blandy said:

Oh, yeah. No argument from me, there. I just kind of think we shouldn't be all shrinking violets one minute "wha wha! he said some of the criticism was hysterical" while "we" call him all sorts of names and all that.

I don't really rate Bruce as all that, and never have, but sometimes criticism does get a bit bonkers.

You don't think after all these years he'd know to let it go especially when not doing well. 

[blandy]

Just now, dn1982 said:

You don't think after all these years he'd know to let it go especially when not doing well. 

I do think that. And for that reason - That's what I said! 

Quote

He should, maybe [stop mentioning the fans as a negative]. But not for the reasons some people think. It's counter productive, is why...

 

[peterms]

29 minutes ago, blandy said:

He should, maybe. But not for the reasons some people think.

It's counter productive, is why. But I think it's reasonable (if he feels it's the case) for a human being to respond to strong criticism with a mention of (what he sees as ) Hysteria or OTT reaction to the job he's been doing.

He's not criticised "the fans" or been negative about "the fans" - he's said something along the lines of "some of the hysteria has been ridiculous". Which I can see from his p.o.v. might be the case.

I agree people will be defensive if they feel they have been harshly or unfairly criticised.

But Bruce explicitly recognised the criticism was justified, when he said

Quote

“I understand their frustration, of course I do,"

"I wear it on my sleeve like they do. There’s nobody more disappointed than I am.

“I agree the performance wasn’t good enough so they’re entitled to boo, I understand that, I could boo myself - but they need encouragement.

“The vast majority stay with them. Of course there is going to be boos because we didn’t play very well.”

In that context, referring to such criticism as hysteria and suggesting it is misplaced or out of order looks a bit silly, as well as inconsistent.  Perhaps that reduces any sympathy people might feel for him, and makes them more likely to be critical?

[blandy]

9 minutes ago, sne said:

Bruce spends a lot of time on social media does he? 

He's come a long way from the guy who when he was at Sunderland admitted he didn't even know how to log on to the computer.

The club does and it'll feed through to him from the media staff  etc. and the press. There's also (perhaps understandably) the folk who gave him pelters at Reading and Cardiff etc.

[blandy]

3 minutes ago, peterms said:

I agree people will be defensive if they feel they have been harshly or unfairly criticised.

But Bruce explicitly recognised the criticism was justified, when he said

In that context, referring to such criticism as hysteria and suggesting it is misplaced or out of order looks a bit silly, as well as inconsistent.  Perhaps that reduces any sympathy people might feel for him, and makes them more likely to be critical?

Yeah. Totally. That's my whole point (badly put by me, perhaps). Don't do it, but not because it's rude to fans (we shouldn't be so sensitive to couched criticism, while dishing it out ourselves). Rather, don't do it because it's counter productive - exposing the nature of his record and because it feeds the frenzy rather than damps it down.