bobzy Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Taxahunter said: When have we become a club where it's ok not to win matches, even if its a reserve side. Im tired of this bull shit. We are Aston Villa for god's sake. We are playing football to win games, I hate to loose, I hate to see us loose I want players for Aston Villa to feel the same. It's a little club syndrome to feel, its ok we lost this game, its only the cup, we wouldn't have won it anyway. As long as we have this approach, we wont get out of the mess we are in... I get what you're saying here and I think everyone is in exactly the same boat - no-one wants to see Villa lose (well, aside from those actively hoping the side loses so that Bruce gets sacked - go figure). However, there's certainly a case for being pragmatic this season. We don't have a squad that is strong enough to win a cup (and particularly win a cup and get promoted) - if you want to call this "little club syndrome" then fine, but it's just fact. We haven't won a major trophy for over 20 years and, at the same time, are now at our lowest point in that period too. To suggest that we should focus our energy on playing our strongest team in every single game is, IMO, daft. What we should do is focus our energy on achieving one goal this season (I'd want this to be promotion) with a view to being competitive elsewhere. We changed our team against Middlesbrough in the cup and lost. Whilst losing is bad, I'd rather lose that game than our upcoming league fixture. Personally, whilst I'd rather we had won, I can accept that defeat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul33 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 4 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I can see the logic behind it. I would have been more pissed off if someone like terry adomah or davis picking up a long term injury in a meaningless game. Its a very long season in championship we need as many fit players as possible Well lets hope it proves the right strategy come Saturday or we run the risk that ALL our games will become "meaningless" very soon and crowds below 20,000 will become the norm. I'm starting to seriously worry about what Bruce is doing to my club !!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxahunter Posted September 20, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted September 20, 2017 3 minutes ago, bobzy said: I get what you're saying here and I think everyone is in exactly the same boat - no-one wants to see Villa lose (well, aside from those actively hoping the side loses so that Bruce gets sacked - go figure). However, there's certainly a case for being pragmatic this season. We don't have a squad that is strong enough to win a cup (and particularly win a cup and get promoted) - if you want to call this "little club syndrome" then fine, but it's just fact. We haven't won a major trophy for over 20 years and, at the same time, are now at our lowest point in that period too. To suggest that we should focus our energy on playing our strongest team in every single game is, IMO, daft. What we should do is focus our energy on achieving one goal this season (I'd want this to be promotion) with a view to being competitive elsewhere. We changed our team against Middlesbrough in the cup and lost. Whilst losing is bad, I'd rather lose that game than our upcoming league fixture. Personally, whilst I'd rather we had won, I can accept that defeat. Im wasn't suggesting to play with our strongest team in the Carabao cup, but changing the whole team, IMO, is daft. Im pretty sure we could have managed, changing just half the team. With the players he has at his disposal he/we shouldn't be afraid to loose one or two players to injuries. We shouldn't be a team dependant on single players, thats not a way to manage a football club. If Bruce had been a good manager, he would have been able to motivate the players just outside the best eleven to step up and perform, but he isn't and he can't. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, bobzy said: What we should do is focus our energy on achieving one goal this season (I'd want this to be promotion) with a view to being competitive elsewhere. We changed our team against Middlesbrough in the cup and lost. Whilst losing is bad, I'd rather lose that game than our upcoming league fixture. Personally, whilst I'd rather we had won, I can accept that defeat. I agree with that. However, what would make more sense to me would be to play a more attacking, more entertaining style, which from the accounts I've read doesn't seem to be the case. A lot of people are complaining about the quality of the football on show in many games this season, and the attendance last night probably reflected that. It was a chance to have cheap tickets, be a bit more open and entertaining, and maybe make people feel a bit happier. It sounds more like a fairly cautious approach, protecting first team players from injury and giving reserves a run out, but not taking the chance to be a bit more attacking. I don't see what's to be gained from that. It's not going to enthuse anyone, draw people back, or relieve some of the tension. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RimmyJimmer Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 2 hours ago, TrentVilla said: What exactly is it that he isn't getting? He seems to be showing how statistics can be twisted to show two very different sides of the same coin. While pointing out that the hysterical label from Bruce and jumped on by some is, frankly, a little silly. I understand exactly what he is saying and he has fair points.....and he is not being hysterical, no one has said he has. He has given himself that label in that particular comment to try and make a point....which is, frankly, a little silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 20, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted September 20, 2017 40 minutes ago, Keyblade said: I don't get why RDM was sacked within 11 games last season when promotion wasn't as absolutely critical as it is this season. Meanwhile Bruce gets 40+ games and 2 transfer windows and a preseason and we look no closer to promotion despite how crucial it is we get promoted this time. Well I assume it's either that the board believe he is turning it round and he'll still take us up. Or they don't believe there is a better candidate available. Or both. (I'm not saying I agree with this.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dn1982 Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 25 minutes ago, bobzy said: I get what you're saying here and I think everyone is in exactly the same boat - no-one wants to see Villa lose (well, aside from those actively hoping the side loses so that Bruce gets sacked - go figure). However, there's certainly a case for being pragmatic this season. We don't have a squad that is strong enough to win a cup (and particularly win a cup and get promoted) - if you want to call this "little club syndrome" then fine, but it's just fact. We haven't won a major trophy for over 20 years and, at the same time, are now at our lowest point in that period too. To suggest that we should focus our energy on playing our strongest team in every single game is, IMO, daft. What we should do is focus our energy on achieving one goal this season (I'd want this to be promotion) with a view to being competitive elsewhere. We changed our team against Middlesbrough in the cup and lost. Whilst losing is bad, I'd rather lose that game than our upcoming league fixture. Personally, whilst I'd rather we had won, I can accept that defeat. Losing last night isn't the be all and end all but it's systematic of where Bruce is at. I don't think he picked a side to win the game more to give people game time and that's my problem. Hutton will never be a left back option. As for Thor I've no idea where he's supposed to play but he's a shocking left mid so you've basically written off the left side. If you are going to use the kids do it all in as it seems the U23 do have a set style something the first team doesn't. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RimmyJimmer Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 2 hours ago, TrentVilla said: No. That isn't hysterical, at most it's impatient, it is just people expressing an opinion which I what a fans forum is for. Much like fickle people have jumped on hysterical with actually seemingly understanding what it actually means. I see it as wildly uncontrolled emotion which is my opinion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Well I assume it's either that the board believe he is turning it round and he'll still take us up. Or they don't believe there is a better candidate available. Or both. (I'm not saying I agree with this.) If it's the former then that's rather daft of them as he's been in charge for roughly a full championship season and we haven't been remotely close to looking like we'd get promoted. They could very well be right about the latter which is depressing. A little ambition wouldn't hurt though. Edited September 20, 2017 by Keyblade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Villa Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 2 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: A distraction or a welcome diversion? It's all about the mindset. If we don't try to win matches, all matches, what is the point? We could have won it, outsiders I admit, and it would only be a few extra games. I bet our sponsors are really chuffed that we're not going to get the additional exposure of a cup run. If Bruce had put the same 11 out that beat Barnsley people on here would have gone mad. He didn't, we got beat and guess what....? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 I have no problem with Bruce changing all 11 for last nights game as it’s a very low priority - however the disappointment is that these players were given a chance to impress and stake a claim for a first team place and they failed miserably . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 30 minutes ago, Taxahunter said: Im wasn't suggesting to play with our strongest team in the Carabao cup, but changing the whole team, IMO, is daft. Im pretty sure we could have managed, changing just half the team. With the players he has at his disposal he/we shouldn't be afraid to loose one or two players to injuries. We shouldn't be a team dependant on single players, thats not a way to manage a football club. If Bruce had been a good manager, he would have been able to motivate the players just outside the best eleven to step up and perform, but he isn't and he can't. The big clubs don't play their first team in the Coca Cola cup, and we are (were) a big club so neither should we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mjvilla Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 I think if we win the next 3, then we can say good decision by Bruce. If we don't and struggle to pick up points again, then it's all on Bruce for not maintaining momentum. As always, massive 3 games coming up for Bruce! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 32 minutes ago, peterms said: I agree with that. However, what would make more sense to me would be to play a more attacking, more entertaining style, which from the accounts I've read doesn't seem to be the case. A lot of people are complaining about the quality of the football on show in many games this season, and the attendance last night probably reflected that. It was a chance to have cheap tickets, be a bit more open and entertaining, and maybe make people feel a bit happier. It sounds more like a fairly cautious approach, protecting first team players from injury and giving reserves a run out, but not taking the chance to be a bit more attacking. I don't see what's to be gained from that. It's not going to enthuse anyone, draw people back, or relieve some of the tension. To be fair it doesn't sound like either team were really bothered about playing the game, and 11k crowd shows that many fans weren't bothered about the game either, think we have dodged a bullet going out of the cup thankfully, don't need the needless fixtures. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, dn1982 said: Losing last night isn't the be all and end all but it's systematic of where Bruce is at. I don't think he picked a side to win the game more to give people game time and that's my problem. Hutton will never be a left back option. As for Thor I've no idea where he's supposed to play but he's a shocking left mid so you've basically written off the left side. If you are going to use the kids do it all in as it seems the U23 do have a set style something the first team doesn't. I think you've hit the nail on the head with your last sentence. Our first team still lacks a clearly defined method of play. Players should be able to slot in and out of the team seamlessly as the system stays the same. SB still seems to be letting the players make it up as they go .... as long as keeping it tight at the back is the number one priority. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 20, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted September 20, 2017 14 minutes ago, Keyblade said: If it's the former then that's rather daft of them as he's been in charge for roughly a full championship season and we haven't been remotely close to looking like we'd get promoted. I don't agree with it myself, but I can see why they might think that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 He made the correct decision, although I think he should have played the development team. He might have learned something from that. But apart from that, I think it was the right thing to do. Where is the point of having the Caribou Cup in our display case if we are languishing near the foot of the Championship. Let's hold our fire untill we see what he does on Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I don't agree with it myself, but I can see why they might think that. If that's how they're thinking they could have gave RDM more than a measly 11 games to turn it around. It's not as if Bruce has shown anything to be more confident in him for this long a period of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 I'm beginning to think 1 - We cannot finacially afford to sack Bruce and pay for a new manager. and 2 - Wyness & Round are keeping Bruce on to save face. Either way - Bruce, Wyness (and maybe Round too) most go asap There will be no big "Hit" from FFP because the Circus aint coming to Town for 6th or above. Chester, Taylor, Adomah, Lansbury, Hourihane, and Kodjia all being sold will cover the losses. All this will have meant 1 - Millions wasted 2 - 2 seasons wasted 3 - we start from scratch from further behind than any point since we first got relegated The only consolation is that getting rid of Bruce & Wyness (Round too?) would be our first step in trying to get back to improving the club 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 @TrentVilla `We're not hysterical, we just don't like you' has some merit. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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