Steve Bruce

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said:

No, 2 wins out of 8 is not but 3 wins and 3 draws out of the last 6 is.

Stats can be pushed and pulled in a million different directions to suit any one persons argument but if recent results are to be believed as a true representation of us then we're heading in the right direction. 

 

Will all depend on what team shows up Saturday, and, to a lesser extent tomorrow night.

We've had 11 months of evidence to suggest we're not heading in the right direction though. After 11 months we should already be well on our way in the right direction, not still hoping we will do so.

Even recent evidence suggests that the team that shows up on Saturday will put in a tepid, defensive performance and scrape a draw at best. But I guess I'll have to hope too that it'll be better than that. 

[Grasshopper]

1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Next 4 games:

Boro (h) - Cup

Forest (h)

Burton (a)

Bolton (h)  

With our Squad we shoukd be winning all those games

AND the one's so far this season

Hull - was 3pts for the taking

Cardiff - a draw or a narrow loss (respecting NW's ability to fire up his teams)

Reading - I would have taken an away draw

Norwich - 3pts (as always)

Bristol C - an away win - draw at least

Brentford - 3pts

Boro - v 10men after 4mins and a further 26mins 10 v a knackered (or fitter/more resolute) 10 - A Win

Barnsley - 3pts

We should be on 18pts already

1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Extremely winnable sequence of games, if we have any plans on promotion we'd have to be looking at winning 2 of the 3 league games but I believe we are very capable of winning all 3,

But we NEED 3 wins now

1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said:

the cup game is a bit of a bonus match really, I'd expect both sides to make a lot of changes. 

Noone has nentioned it yet, so I will ask the question

Would 2 good cup runs help our finances - win bonuses - TV money - gate reciepts - merchandise - food & Bevs?

Are we in a ffp state that every penny counts?

1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I get why people see little to no hope but honestly, all you can do is hope, nothing we say and do will change or influence the outcomes so best to go in with a positive mindset and if it all falls to shit then come on here and kick off!

I disagree!

Team plays shit - team doesnt get results - team nowhere near top 6 - out of both cups

what do the fans have as inspiration?

They will stay away - be less supportive - be more fickle (oh I hate that saying) - eventually demonstrating

All unjust for a little bit of hope?

[Straggler]

10 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

*Sorry for uber long post, but here goes*

For me, Steve's 

You are forgiven, it wasn't anywhere near as tough to get through as you may have been worried about.

It comes across as quite philosophical, it is up there with "I think therefore I am".

Edited September 18, 2017 by Straggler
the words were wrong

[romavillan]

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

This is why I don't usually get involved with hypothetical scenarios.

The last thing I want is another change of manager but we aren't going to win 4 on the spin in my view and I don't see enough progress under Bruce to think we will go up.

Totally, whilst we don't *know* we won't hit a rich vein of form and win 4 on the bounce, I personally have seen nothing at all to convince me we can do that. I've yet to see us play well for a full 90 minutes under Bruce in over 40 games, so to suddenly expect 360 good minutes in the next 4 games just looks impossible. 

I reckon we'd have seen at least some signs of us being able to play some dominant winning football by now if it was achievable by the current coaching team. I've not seen the signs if there have been any. There's been individual showings of skill that have turned games, there's even been some great goals, but I'm talking about as a unit for more than a couple of minutes at a time.

[DaveAV1]

2 hours ago, RimmyJimmer said:

 

Well lets not. 

If your going to dish it out expect some back dave 

??

[Grasshopper]

45 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

No, 2 wins out of 8 is not but 3 wins and 3 draws out of the last 6 is.

Stats can be pushed and pulled in a million different directions to suit any one persons argument but if recent results are to be believed as a true representation of us then we're heading in the right direction. 

 

Will all depend on what team shows up Saturday, and, to a lesser extent tomorrow night.

Maybe you can write to the EFL asking them to scratch the first games of the season so it suits your arguement

[bannedfromHandV]

26 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

With our Squad we shoukd be winning all those games

AND the one's so far this season

Hull - was 3pts for the taking

Cardiff - a draw or a narrow loss (respecting NW's ability to fire up his teams)

Reading - I would have taken an away draw

Norwich - 3pts (as always)

Bristol C - an away win - draw at least

Brentford - 3pts

Boro - v 10men after 4mins and a further 26mins 10 v a knackered (or fitter/more resolute) 10 - A Win

Barnsley - 3pts

We should be on 18pts already

But we NEED 3 wins now

Noone has nentioned it yet, so I will ask the question

Would 2 good cup runs help our finances - win bonuses - TV money - gate reciepts - merchandise - food & Bevs?

Are we in a ffp state that every penny counts?

I disagree!

Team plays shit - team doesnt get results - team nowhere near top 6 - out of both cups

what do the fans have as inspiration?

They will stay away - be less supportive - be more fickle (oh I hate that saying) - eventually demonstrating

All unjust for a little bit of hope?

Okay GH, well it seems to me that a number of people take no joy from being a Villa fan anymore, even after a 3-0 away win live on Sky.

I on the other hand thoroughly enjoyed Saturday and am still wearing a smile now, I feel sorry for you more than anything.

You ask for inspiration, as though you are entitled to it. What do you think inspires your average Notts County fan to turn up week in week out? Or do you only want to support Villa if they're meeting your expectations of where they should be and what style of football they're playing? There's a description for that, I'll refrain from using it.

 

Just to add, I am not putting myself on a pedestal, I haven't been to see Villa yet this season and only went 3 times last year.

[Nigel]

2 hours ago, av1 said:

The squad is so strong that the chances are Bruce will probably stumble on a winning formula, which may even see us scrape into the play offs.

 

 

He really hasnt got a chance with some of you has he!

[villabromsgrove]

We should win the next three fixtures however we set up because we have much better players than the opposition. I know Forest are 10th at the moment, but if we don't beat them and a woeful Bolton at home we need shooting. Also Burton away should be comfortable for the players we have at our disposal. 

The test will come in October against some decent teams. That's when I worry about Bruce's tactics.

[hansardtony]

With the mix of youth and experience in our squad, we have by fat the best team in the championship. Now that they're gaining better fitness the results will come. I'm happy that we'll be promoted by seasons end. Let's all support Steve and the team.

[villabromsgrove]

7 minutes ago, Nigel said:

He really hasnt got a chance with some of you has he!

Some of us just don't think he's good enough based on the evidence of his forty odd matches in charge Nigel.

We should start to put together some wins with the fixtures coming up, but that will be despite Bruce rather than because of him in my honest opinion.

[romavillan]

8 minutes ago, hansardtony said:

With the mix of youth and experience in our squad, we have by fat the best team in the championship. Now that they're gaining better fitness the results will come. I'm happy that we'll be promoted by seasons end. Let's all support Steve and the team.

You are Steve Bruce and I claim my £5.

The mix of youth and experience, fair enough, you could say he's bought well. The fitness? Why the **** should they only just be getting fit now? Or do you mean that Jedi and Kodija are coming back from injury? If it's the former it's Steve's (your) fault, if the latter well, seeing as we spent a metric twatload of cash on lots of other striking options, bought whelan and Onomah in etc. Having 2 first teamers out should *not* be a problem. Our season is minimum 48 games this year isn't it? We will never have our best team fit for all of that. He has an enormous squad, 2 injuries do not excuse the start to the season we've had.

Just curious, but what makes you so happy we'll be promoted by season's end? We had a shortish run of the required form last year whilst playing horribly when Kodija was scoring very week. This year we've not even had that so far? Where is the average 2 points a game form coming from in your opinion? 

[rubberman]

1 hour ago, Straggler said:

Last time we were in the early dawn of a potential encouraging run we went on an away trip to Bristol and played three cb's.  Bruce in that moment stole the wind from our sails.  So here we are again wondering if the lessons have been learned and if this is the new dawn we have all been waiting for.  The evidence suggests that it isn't.  I hope he has learned, but I hoped that last time I posted in here saying how he needed to be brave and stay on the front foot and then Bristol City happened.  As impossible as it seems, I genuinely don't think he is ever going to learn this lesson.  It defies logic, but I think he is looking for then next excuse to go all defensive again.  It is really the only consistent behavior we have seen from him as the Villa manager and I think it is only sensible to assume that the most likely thing to happen is the thing that he does most often.  His post match comments are certainly not of a man who has suddenly seen the light.  I'm not one to put too much stock in what a manager says to the press, but I can't ignore the implication that he seems to think that he has been doing the right thing the whole way through.

So yes he has had a win and I can't deny it feels good.  I am hopeful that he Bruce has seen the light and we will see more of two up top with more attacking intent, but I sure as hell am not expecting it. 

Whilst I agree that regressions to Bruce's defensive line-ups is still likely, my straw-clutch is that with Kodjia and Davis he now feels he can play more offensively.  If they can stay healthy and on the pitch, I think (hope) that he will stick with it.  That should bring us some decent results for the rest of the month and once momentum is there who knows. If O'hare and Doyle-Hayes keep pushing on in the cup games we'll have more options to bring in when injuries / suspensions do happen.  Faint glimmers of hope for me.

[Nigel]

Just now, villabromsgrove said:

Some of us just don't think he's good enough based on the evidence of his forty odd matches in charge Nigel.

We should start to put together some wins with the fixtures coming up, but that will be despite Bruce rather than because of him in my honest opinion.

 

 

 

Im all up for people having different opinions, its good to have different ideas given, as long as they are put well and fair in their principles.

If folks dont like Bruce because they dont think he can get us up then thats good and fair.  However its you cant suddenly turn around and say anything good he does will be the result of 'stumbling' or 'winning despite Bruce', then it becomes nothing more than a witch hunt. If we win it will be as much to do with his management as losing will, and he will be judged accordingly.

Its also worth mentioning that it was him who built this squad to 'stumble' onto a winning formula!

 

[TRO]

15 hours ago, VILLAMARV said:

No argument from me @TRO. I've been pretty supportive of him and I can see many reasons beyond his own failings for last years slump and a stuttering start. Ive laid them out in this thread before. I missed the Bristol City, Reading and Norwich games but imo Ive no real problem with the Hull, Middlesborough and obviously Barnsley games. The Brentford and Cardiff matches were utterly appalling though and the Cardiff game really knocked the stuffing out of me when it came to bothering to voice a supportive opinion on here of his merits. That doesn't mean I've joined in calling for his head either, I think 10/11 games in is a reasonable sample size to indicate how the season will pan out on top of that with RDM last year Xia might have shown his hand on how quickly he is willing to act too. I also think from his "I know what I have to do" type comments earlier in the season that Xia may well have set him a points total for the end of this month of around 20 points. Whatever he does now he's not getting to 20 by then and I truly think his only hope is to win all 3, miss it by 1 point on an 8 game unbeaten run and prove we've turned a corner. I think October is Wolves, Fulham and SHA away so I wouldnt say 3 wins from 3 is a reasonable expectation on current form in those games but with all due respect to Forest, Burton and Bolton  it's not the same proposition and I think as someone said the other day it's time to shit or get off the pot. 15/16 points after 11 games is mid table form however it's spun, 19/20 is around the minimum I'd expect to see and he's cutting it that fine imo. 3 clean sheets is great, 9 goals conceeded in 5 games not so much though eh and therein lies the reason this thread is pretty enjoyable right now is that both sides of any argument still have some validity. I'm behind him and the team every time (I don't get the seeing the up side in a potential loss type posts) and I haven't given up on him yet mostly probably because I resigned myself to the 1 dimensional football the day he was announced but I've cut him all the slack I can for now. I want to see wins on the board.

I think that is perfectly fair comment.

[chrisvilla4]

2 hours ago, lapal_fan said:

*Sorry for uber long post, but here goes*

For me, Steve's 

You said it all man. 

[Zatman]

Saw the interaction with his son. Pathetic and small time

More glad we didnt sign Alex now

[TRO]

6 hours ago, villabromsgrove said:

Steve Bruce's recent media comments indicate to me that he genuinely believes that he's been doing all the right things, and just needed to get a bit of luck to start winning games. A good result against Barnsley has reinforced his belief that he's right and his doubters are wrong.

He's entitled to say he's right if he believes it to be true,  just as those of us who think his methods are holding us back have every right to voice our opinions.

My opinion is that having Bruce in charge of Villa for the last eleven months has been a bit like watching someone trying to drive a car with the hand brake on .... we're barely moving in the right direction (are we moving?), and we'd go a lot quicker if we had a driver who was prepared to take the hand brake off.

I still think Bruce is the problem, not the solution.

 

The thing is none of us can strengthen our position/argument after a single result either way.

Steve Bruce as I understand is responsible for all things football manager....buying and selling, setting up, formations, man management, game management, youth development, player motivation and lots more....inc results.

If folk are saying we have the best squad, but are not performing.....its sounds to me like they are praising him on one hand ( maybe inadvertently) and criticising him on another.

We have to understand, if he goes the lot goes.....why throw the baby out with the bath water?

We have already had managers who can do the things we moan about but can't buy players......maybe in being preoccupied with so many things to repair he has not focused on some things as much as he should.....thats where time helps.

I am all for Bruce going if its not working.....I don't think we have arrived at that point yet, sorry.....I still think the graph is a bit bumpy (there are peaks and troughs) but not enough to sack him.

Yes I did overreact a bit after Cardiff....I'm human.( i think)

 

[DaveAV1]

2 hours ago, RimmyJimmer said:

 

Well lets not. 

If your going to dish it out expect some back dave 

??

[villabromsgrove]

15 minutes ago, TRO said:

The thing is none of us can strengthen our position/argument after a single result either way.

Steve Bruce as I understand is responsible for all things football manager....buying and selling, setting up, formations, man management, game management, youth development, player motivation and lots more....inc results.

If folk are saying we have the best squad, but are not performing.....its sounds to me like they are praising him on one hand ( maybe inadvertently) and criticising him on another.

We have to understand, if he goes the lot goes.....why throw the baby out with the bath water?

We have already had managers who can do the things we moan about but can't buy players......maybe in being preoccupied with so many things to repair he has not focused on some things as much as he should.....thats where time helps.

I am all for Bruce going if its not working.....I don't think we have arrived at that point yet, sorry.....I still think the graph is a bit bumpy (there are peaks and troughs) but not enough to sack him.

Yes I did overreact a bit after Cardiff....I'm human.( i think)

 

TRO, it's what he does on match days that winds me up. It's what his coaches do during the week that frustrates me. It's the way he's continually ignored the needs of our most attacking players and benched our best assister that winds me up. It's taken a lot of matches for me  to form the opinion that he is not the right manager, and it would take a consistent run of games in which we stick it to the opposition, to change my mind. 

Can Steve Bruce metamorphosize from Mr Negative to Mr Positive?